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primavera

(5,191 posts)

81. I'd like to hear the answer to that one, too

Fri Mar 1, 2013, 01:18 PM

Mar 2013

Gun rights advocates are so quick to fall back upon the second amendment as all the legal authority they need for access to firearms. Yet, if the second amendment is as inviolable and unassailable as they would seem to suggest, how do RKBA proponents swallow the fact that guns are regulated at all? If a person's right to bear arms is so absolute, why don't we allow toddlers to own uzis? A toddler is a "person" and an uzi is an "arm," so what's the problem? Yet few gun enthusiasts would advocate allowing children to own and use machine guns. If we're willing to constrain the second amendment and regulate guns at all, how is it any different to apply the same common sense that tells us that toddlers shouldn't have uzis to impose common sense requirements like mandatory background checks or basic gun safety education requirements in order to be issued a license to own a gun?

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Sebastian Swartz, 9-Year-Old Boy, Dead After Shooting Himself With Father's Gun In Ohio [View all] Judi Lynn Feb 2013 OP

The dad may not have been adequately trained in gun safety. The basics should be taught in school. slackmaster Feb 2013 #1

NO WAY. I don't want to waste school time with guns. Fresh_Start Feb 2013 #3

Thanks. a la izquierda Feb 2013 #47

Truly amazing response...a gun in the home is like...well, a loaded gun... JoeBlowToo Feb 2013 #6

That's commonly called the "body count fallacy" slackmaster Feb 2013 #16

Fallacy? CANDO Feb 2013 #49

Bullshit. You should have to demonstrate proficiency BEFORE you can purchase a gun. Period. JoePhilly Feb 2013 #9

Since when does passing a driver's test prevent reckless driving? JoeBlowToo Feb 2013 #11

If you are reckless, you get ticketed. JoePhilly Feb 2013 #12

Won't happen as long as politicians lick the boots of the NRA... JoeBlowToo Feb 2013 #14

I described what I think should happen. JoePhilly Feb 2013 #17

It does prevent reckless driving, it does not stop it but it does prevent it Bjorn Against Feb 2013 #23

Thank you!! primavera Feb 2013 #64

You're not going to get your way on that. We don't have to prove proficiency before we can vote, slackmaster Feb 2013 #18

The Next Time A Ballot Is Used To Turn A School Into A Slaughterhouse..... Paladin Feb 2013 #34

Generaly speaking, you usually do not get knocked in the head or shot through the heart juajen Feb 2013 #37

Those pesky facts roxy1234 Feb 2013 #58

Actually we didn't vote for Bush Fumesucker Feb 2013 #65

You're allowed to vote for National Socialist parties, join the KKK, publish racist propaganda, etc. harmonicon Feb 2013 #72

Yes, we are: owning a gun and casting a vote are in no way comparable, for one thing; apocalypsehow Mar 2013 #97

The term "well-regulated militia' comes to mind. sofa king Mar 2013 #107

But if we require that they actually show some responsibility we are violating their Squinch Feb 2013 #59

That's the crux of the problem, alright primavera Feb 2013 #62

Pass. City Lights Feb 2013 #21

No, what they need to do is Politicalboi Feb 2013 #22

There are a lot of wishful but impotent "should" statements in that short paragraph. slackmaster Feb 2013 #25

Um, small point. The Dad did not shoot himself. A 9 year old did. MichiganVote Feb 2013 #27

The boy shot himself because his father failed to adequately secure his weapon. slackmaster Feb 2013 #29

I think that's an obvious point. MichiganVote Feb 2013 #32

Maybe in your family... FarPoint Feb 2013 #31

Teaching kids how to be safe is not teaching them any kind of negative culture. slackmaster Feb 2013 #33

I understand you safety education training goals. FarPoint Feb 2013 #38

I'm with you on driver's ed. There are so many bad drivers on the road now. slackmaster Feb 2013 #39

If I had kids I would teach them to be safe by teaching them to stay away from guns Bjorn Against Feb 2013 #40

Sooner or later they would grow up and no longer be under your control slackmaster Feb 2013 #41

No they would not be under my control, but they would be educated about guns Bjorn Against Feb 2013 #45

Should children also be taught to disarm bombs? (nt) harmonicon Feb 2013 #73

Only if they really want to be taught to disarm bombs slackmaster Feb 2013 #74

So why do you think guns should be different? harmonicon Feb 2013 #75

Guns have a multitude of applications, and can be used safely with proper training. slackmaster Mar 2013 #83

There is basically no situation where that will happen. harmonicon Mar 2013 #84

Target shooting and collecting are the most common uses for firearms slackmaster Mar 2013 #85

You know, there's a far more simple solution than what you suggest. harmonicon Mar 2013 #88

Would you allow your children to ride bicycles in the street, or drive cars? slackmaster Mar 2013 #93

I really don't give a shit what you do with guns in your own house. harmonicon Mar 2013 #99

My reference to transportation was in regard to your claim that you would try to prevent your child slackmaster Mar 2013 #101

I was being serious. It wasn't meant as an ad hominem attack. harmonicon Mar 2013 #102

I'm not trying to equate weapons with vehicles. I'm talking about probabilities. slackmaster Mar 2013 #103

There is one way to mitigating risk involving guns that is foolproof: harmonicon Mar 2013 #105

Wrong. The dad should never have been allowed to take possession of a gun kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #35

More wishful thinking "should" statements. You don't have to get psych tested or take a course... slackmaster Feb 2013 #36

no, the basics should be taught at the point-of-sale.. frylock Feb 2013 #43

The only safety education being advocated here consists of: AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #46

If you want to have a gun, do this on your own time and with your own dime. It's your hobby, Squinch Feb 2013 #53

Did you not read a word I just said? AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #63

Herein lies the problem. Squinch Mar 2013 #86

Let me stop you right there. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #87

OK, let's replace pro gun with pro driving a car. Squinch Mar 2013 #89

The more numerous example of the negligent gun owner in the home AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #92

Well, hot damn! Squinch Mar 2013 #94

Not only that AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #95

. Squinch Mar 2013 #96

You know we're not allowed to come to an agreement right? AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #98

I would joke that something like that happened in Fla, but it's too sad what happened to that guy. Squinch Mar 2013 #100

As it has been mentioned before... Blue_Tires Feb 2013 #44

Gosh. We're shocked, shocked I tell you, that you feel the need to say this and thereby Squinch Feb 2013 #51

I never said it was the responsibility of anyone but the gun owner. I'm suggesting... slackmaster Feb 2013 #52

You are saying the schools should teach how to be safe around your hobby. Squinch Feb 2013 #54

It's not about me. slackmaster Feb 2013 #55

Would that class apply to any and all products... LanternWaste Feb 2013 #67

Like drugs, sex, and cars, improperly handled firearms pose an extraordinary hazard to people slackmaster Feb 2013 #69

Covering the subject in a health/wellness class would be a good idea Blandocyte Feb 2013 #70

Teaching is like giving a young person a tool. The tool gets put into the toolbox, and may never... slackmaster Feb 2013 #71

every person who buys or already owns a gun should be required to be licensed magical thyme Feb 2013 #78

The rights to drive, hunt, fish, clam, dig worms, and take lobstahs aren't enumerated in the Bill... slackmaster Mar 2013 #79

the bill of rights does not necessarily preclude licensing or regulation magical thyme Mar 2013 #80

I'd like to hear the answer to that one, too primavera Mar 2013 #81

No, federal law prohibits sale of a long gun to anyone under 18. For handguns, 21. slackmaster Mar 2013 #82

if the federal government can regulate gun sales magical thyme Mar 2013 #106

Unfortunately, lots of so-called responsible gun owners are just a tragedy waiting to happen. Hoyt Mar 2013 #104

This boy would still be alive if there was not a gun in the house. LonePirate Feb 2013 #2

...or if the weapon had been properly secured out of reach of the child. slackmaster Feb 2013 #4

Then it would not be an effective self defense option... JoeBlowToo Feb 2013 #7

Decatur looks like a wide spot in the road (literally). secondvariety Feb 2013 #20

The problem is not that there is an actual need for the weapon... JoeBlowToo Feb 2013 #24

Which leads to a secondvariety Feb 2013 #28

Actually, after talking to several gun owners that I know, juajen Feb 2013 #42

They sound like a bunch of doofs Dash87 Feb 2013 #60

is it paranoia? bossy22 Feb 2013 #50

The Dad should be tried and sent to prison randr Feb 2013 #5

sure, just like death penalties curtail homicide... JoeBlowToo Feb 2013 #8

And clearly life in prison is no deterent either. Let's drop all laws about murder. JoePhilly Feb 2013 #10

Try following the discussion...the poster claimed that death penalties would prevent JoeBlowToo Feb 2013 #13

If you own a gun, and some one else is killed accidentaly because of your neglegence ... JoePhilly Feb 2013 #15

Maybe we should give people prizes when they commit murder. Because of that incarceration Squinch Feb 2013 #57

It's not always about deterrence. secondvariety Feb 2013 #19

Negligence is not usually prosecuted in our society... JoeBlowToo Feb 2013 #26

Criminally negligent manslaughter secondvariety Feb 2013 #30

My initial reaction, which continures to this moment, randr Feb 2013 #66

Not the death penalty, but yes, a jail penalty for the death that occurred as a result of his Squinch Feb 2013 #56

This is horrible sad and tragic story ... brett_jv Feb 2013 #48

A sensible proposal for a legislative solution Nevernose Feb 2013 #61

Gun sales already include locks. ManiacJoe Feb 2013 #76

Lock up your guns people. My kids are 7 and 8. If I had a gun it would be totally locked away Jennicut Feb 2013 #68

I store my shotgun seperately from the shells for it, the former in a locked safe. I cannot imagine apocalypsehow Mar 2013 #91

Thanks. Jennicut Mar 2013 #108

The father should go to prison. avebury Feb 2013 #77

Tragic. The cost of unregulated gun fetishism in this country claims another life. Some jerk can't apocalypsehow Mar 2013 #90