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PATRICK

(12,347 posts)
48. You have the Gospels
Thu Apr 4, 2013, 08:55 AM
Apr 2013

and then you have historical speculation. Guards were scared away by the event- if guards were actually posted all night. The women at the crucifixion helped by a bold insider Joseph of Arimethea got away with a rushed but respectful burial in a decent crypt. The women returned for a proper preparation(cleansing,better anointing) of the body troubled by the size of the rock they remembered at the tomb. The men had good cause to fear arrest. The issue of giving a decent burial was a big one lost in the empty tomb story but still there, as in the pre-anointing story which Judas found so wasteful.

Now we come to Mark's Gospel with special issues and axes to grind we vaguely see under modern scholarship. The women saw an ampty tomb and told no one. Or in other versions were simply not believed- for the usual reasons. Once on the way to check it out Peter(and John) probably began to feel the chill of possibility and memory of Jesus' own words. Seeing the empty tomb they believed. The possibility of a stolen body seems to be played down from the side of the Sanhedrin and the predictable disbelief of the close disciples but this is overshadowed and obviously redacted especially in Mark's Gospel. the obvious addendum in another's style, words and content jumps to the glory of the Resurrection. To my mind that looks both like lopping off some lost ending to the rather bitterly critiquing of the men apostles and a correction of redemption by the Cross for topdown triumphalism.

So no one "saw" the event. The corpse is gone and no one on any side wants to talk much about that. It didn't merit an investigation- or a purge- in the eyes of the establishment and the Church had the appearances, no Oedipus at Colonus empty awe ending. Meaning, mission, glory and not a ghost story, nor the typical hysteria cult cloud. It still is something like a blow between the eyes to the world as it is and human illusions as they really are not. Not historically satisfying even in the meager ways we would like, but not overwhelmingly mythologized or easily dismissed as the naturally hostile would judiciously scrutinize.

The irony is the situation has not changed much. We have perhaps a stunningly unique relic in the Shroud of Turin or maybe not. The real issue- it is still a piece of cloth after all- is how science and belief fumble all over themselves to create a state of murk over the whole thing. That in itself keeps at bay the facile positions of anyone, even the astonishment that reason and logic can't tame our sad state of affairs and simply do the job.

As a believer I have let myself doubt and examine all the possibilities and credibility with the little we can know with a corrupted thumb nail sketch of the history subject to the extrapolations of the sorry human condition. I have no belief in the absolutism of my own judgment. So it makes it comforting? if not ever comfortable to have a religion where the Absolute has entered the muck and mire and pulled us out despite everything.

Despite the lavish glorification bestowed by human theology upon the meaning and the painful picking away at the historical crumbs on the Judaeo-Christian china, you still only have a bitter out of hand dismissal with rather extreme prejudice and an experience of awe that only can be maintained and non-verbally understood by living out the entire mission.

Then when you say in the same movement of personal realizarion "He is Risen," you will get the same treatment as the perennial second class citizens. Crazy, hysterical, naive, mistaken- which is strangely usually the case when you put enthusiastic faith in any of our wonderful heros and leaders nowadays, strangely the ones not very much at all like Jesus. And far dumber, less daring and less humble. Even statutory leaders of his own Church.

Other cloudy details: the young man(men) at the tomb saying he is not there in a question form used also by third person questions and lack of recognition of the Risen Jesus in the Emmaus and Magdalene story. This confusion of recognition and belief/disbelief and words. There is sort of a protracted second "going" announced with a coming of the Spirit. No simple apotheosis or departure. No sense of finality or closure but of the real beginning. Decades later the next generation bridges the historical gap where commonly mythologizing buries history and changes the meaning so much that it must have some fundamental value greater than most human imagination to survive.

That said, I think the Pope, in what some would consider "shrewd" Jesuit fashion is paving the way for women in all posts of leadership in the Church by stressing the most important issues and leaving aside the biggest objections without mentioning anything- now- about advancing their status in Church ministry. The issue is, as in the Gospels, that women have taken the initiative already and that is in itself inspired already, even while Jesus was preaching with the traditional coterie of men disciples beginning with the rules of Scripture and culture but never ultimately constrained by them.

This has to driving the supposed "conservatives" of the Church mad with anger, which in itself puts them on the losing side. Conservatism everywhere seems to represent lies, hypocrisy, authoritarian arrogance, enmity toward the Spirit- and that is a charitable hypothesis.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

But if he had to choose between saving your life or your fetus, ladies, he'd go with your fetus MotherPetrie Apr 2013 #1
You took the words right out of my mouth. forestpath Apr 2013 #3
+100 Canuckistanian Apr 2013 #24
Yes. Rather than applaud a small step in the right direction, you choose to make a cheap shot. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2013 #59
Emphasis on "small." Meanwhile, women will continue to die. Nothing's much cheaper than the regard MotherPetrie Apr 2013 #61
As long as they're not equal, other stuff is OK I guess. HERVEPA Apr 2013 #2
But let's face it, God made man FIRST progressoid Apr 2013 #4
Some women in the Catholic church don't see it that way.. midnight Apr 2013 #6
"and her living teaching authority" Voice for Peace Apr 2013 #10
Many years ago while attending Mass, a male priest, declared God was both man and woman... midnight Apr 2013 #29
women plural? that would be a good one Voice for Peace Apr 2013 #31
"God is defined as being made of one man and an infinite number of women" Voice for Peace Apr 2013 #32
Sorry it must of been a Freudian slip... Meant to type woman.... midnight Apr 2013 #46
Then they should join the multitude of Christian churches... MellowDem Apr 2013 #13
I agree... midnight Apr 2013 #30
Christ chose his apostles only from circumcised Jewish males. So therefore ....... SharonAnn Apr 2013 #16
Actually, one of Christ's most important apostles was a woman, Mary TygrBright Apr 2013 #38
Stupid question... Flying Squirrel Apr 2013 #5
But what about his wife, who was described as a prostitute by the fiction writers a few hundred MADem Apr 2013 #21
Tea Party conservatives are more progressive than the Pope... MellowDem Apr 2013 #7
89+ recs. onehandle Apr 2013 #11
Actually, it's great to be naysaing MellowDem Apr 2013 #15
This OP has 25 recs, not 89 and it sucks to be a mendacious promoter of homophobic sexists Bluenorthwest Apr 2013 #43
"fundamental" (what a great word)--just not equal. niyad Apr 2013 #8
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2013 #9
Of course they are important to church leaders. pennylane100 Apr 2013 #12
Replaced? bitchkitty Apr 2013 #49
Thousands of catholics get divorced each year pennylane100 Apr 2013 #50
They might get divorced but when they do, bitchkitty Apr 2013 #55
I think 60,000 annulments a year is quite a significant number. pennylane100 Apr 2013 #56
look Francis DonCoquixote Apr 2013 #14
Back when Paul said that women should be silent...... musical_soul Apr 2013 #17
To be completely fair, there were competing religions at the time where women played the key roles. dimbear Apr 2013 #39
Did any other woman just feel MsPithy Apr 2013 #18
How about this? JDPriestly Apr 2013 #25
I was shocked at the fact that no Pope had washed a woman's feet, in Protestant Churches they sure Bluenorthwest Apr 2013 #44
I hope this spirit leads to women clergy. hrmjustin Apr 2013 #19
Me too. nt onehandle Apr 2013 #28
No way!! SkyDaddy7 Apr 2013 #41
I think the seeds may be planted... AngryOldDem Apr 2013 #58
Hopefully something big happens in the news soon. ForgoTheConsequence Apr 2013 #20
So don't read. 840high Apr 2013 #23
Don't be silly. ForgoTheConsequence Apr 2013 #27
You made me smile. Hugs. 840high Apr 2013 #52
The Church moves very slowly. Beacool Apr 2013 #22
My mythology isn't really as hateful as the holy books describe it.. snooper2 Apr 2013 #26
Actually, Mary Magdalene was the first witness but the male disciples didn't believe her. intheflow Apr 2013 #33
More like they don't want to... MellowDem Apr 2013 #35
Actually in Catholic schools NastyRiffraff Apr 2013 #53
What? Really?! indivisibleman Apr 2013 #34
A "special" role... MellowDem Apr 2013 #36
"God does not choose according to human criteria." But that is exactly what... Peace Patriot Apr 2013 #37
Yes. The same thing struck me. Tom Rinaldo Apr 2013 #47
Compare Apollonius of Tyana, who has a comparable story arc to Jesus, but who chose as his chief dimbear Apr 2013 #40
fundamental.... madrchsod Apr 2013 #42
Anti Choice and Anti Gay this Pope is like Fred Phelps. Bluenorthwest Apr 2013 #45
Honestly, a pro-choice Pope would be kinda weird Ter Apr 2013 #60
You have the Gospels PATRICK Apr 2013 #48
I'm interested in seeing how conservative Catholics react--I hope he watches his back bklyncowgirl Apr 2013 #51
Cardinal parade justhanginon Apr 2013 #54
AND ......!/? burrowowl Apr 2013 #57
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