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Igel

(37,353 posts)
19. Apples and oranges.
Mon Jun 24, 2013, 10:27 AM
Jun 2013

The question is whether the pro forma sessions count as sessions of Congress and whether the President has the authority to make a recess appointment while such sessions are taking place. The Republicans have argued that pro forma sessions count as sessions and disallow recess appointments.

The issue didn't come up with Bush. The Democrats in the Senate held pro forma sessions and Bush treated them as bona fide sessions. He didn't make appointments during those sessiond, even though it left a number of vacancies in key spots. Them's politics.

Obama, who supported the pro forma sessions when he was in the Senate along with the majority of Democrats, decided that they didn't really count and made appointments in spite of them. Suddenly the pro forma sessions that worked against Bush are to be ignored when they impede Obama.

The President has authority to make appointments if the Congress is not in Session. The Constitution doesn't say what's illegal--it says what the Executive branch can do. What's not permitted is forbidden. He has no authority to make appointments if Congress is in session, so that's forbidden. It's a saner, even if sometimes problematic way, of dealing with a situation that can change radically over time.

The lower court's ruling was pretty much nonsense, taking such an atomistic approach to lexemes in the Constitution that it totally subverts the Constitution. That's especially problematic with words that indicate a variety of semantic categories like "the" does, in which you have to look at pragmatic context, sentence-level syntax, and what the dictionary and text-grammars say. Deconstruction may be a nice hobby when it applies to nothing of importance, but when interpreting the Constitution you should bring a bit of good will to the table.

I take the lower court's ruling as a cry for help from a more authoritative body, like the SCOTUS. Let's see what they say. Be forewarned: Almost anything they say will be difficult to parse, and the first 10 minutes of reporting are likely to be near-gibberish, if only because it will explicitly with English grammar, probably be wrong, and most Americans have at most a rudimentary explicit understanding of their own grammar.

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Link and story. flpoljunkie Jun 2013 #1
maybe the republicans shouldn't have brought this to the court.. madrchsod Jun 2013 #6
We can only hope their short-sightedness will be their petard. As usual. Myrina Jun 2013 #11
The DOJ brought this case to the court. former9thward Jun 2013 #21
did`t know that ..thanks madrchsod Jun 2013 #42
This will be interesting Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #2
What are we supposed to think on this one here at DU? geek tragedy Jun 2013 #3
They did NOTHING with the bush doing it, suddenly they find it important. I do believe they will still_one Jun 2013 #4
Apples and oranges. Igel Jun 2013 #19
What a big fat joke this one is BeyondGeography Jun 2013 #5
+1 Berlum Jun 2013 #13
I know, can you believe it?!? 100% of the time! OMG!!!11!!!1! Where will it end? n/t eggplant Jun 2013 #17
Once again, repugs solving problems that don't exist. louis-t Jun 2013 #52
I'm sure they've already gamed out how they'll appeal BeyondGeography Jun 2013 #57
Well he'd better get going quick at least give them something to crow about. Historic NY Jun 2013 #56
This won't be decided til June 2014 if I am not mistaken. graham4anything Jun 2013 #7
Obama is president until 2016 blackspade Jun 2013 #16
this is bullshit! ElsewheresDaughter Jun 2013 #8
How many appointments have the Republicans refused to vote on? Frustratedlady Jun 2013 #9
The repubs haven't just blocked democratic appointments. They are trying to nullify the powers of okaawhatever Jun 2013 #29
Thanks. I've lost track. Frustratedlady Jun 2013 #34
It's going to get slapped down davidpdx Jun 2013 #10
How many DUers are hoping for Obama's impeachment? Democat Jun 2013 #12
The answer to that question is easy to calculate Android3.14 Jun 2013 #15
That sounds about right davidpdx Jun 2013 #26
I've seen many more than that. Zoeisright Jun 2013 #47
Not a valid question based on the answer you provided. blackspade Jun 2013 #18
I have seen such a comment in a post saying that davidpdx Jun 2013 #25
But they can't impeach him for drones or spying on citizens. aquart Jun 2013 #27
Not just further to the right, Politicalboi Jun 2013 #45
Impeachment would be a very unwise move on their part. roamer65 Jun 2013 #39
Just like they paid for it in 2000? Angleae Jun 2013 #63
Fake Recess is same as Fake Filibuster bucolic_frolic Jun 2013 #14
Is the Supreme Court Lugal Zaggesi Jun 2013 #20
The language you cite in Bush v. Gore does not exist. former9thward Jun 2013 #23
How many?? aquart Jun 2013 #28
How many? former9thward Jun 2013 #30
Actually Android3.14 Jun 2013 #33
It is myth and it does not mean at all what the poster said. former9thward Jun 2013 #35
Wow Android3.14 Jun 2013 #36
Wow.... former9thward Jun 2013 #38
Does this actually work for you? Android3.14 Jun 2013 #44
I asked a specific question. former9thward Jun 2013 #51
Okay, I'm backing away here Android3.14 Jun 2013 #59
The exact statement does limit the use csziggy Jun 2013 #40
All Supreme court decisions have "limiting statements" in them somewhere. former9thward Jun 2013 #41
Do they actually say "limiting statements" Lugal Zaggesi Jun 2013 #43
I know what you said. former9thward Jun 2013 #49
I know what you said Lugal Zaggesi Jun 2013 #62
Partisanship aside, I think the power of the Executive Branch is too great. Hosnon Jun 2013 #22
I do not think the executive power is too great. I think Congress's ability to thwart process Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #32
Exactly. Zoeisright Jun 2013 #48
I disagree that the Executive Branch is the weakest. Hosnon Jun 2013 #50
O.K., let's agree to disagree, but the Constitution doesn't give the president that much power Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #54
I agree Congress was intended to be the strongest, but that didn't happen in practice. Hosnon Jun 2013 #55
Again, if you and I agree that Congress has the greatest constitutional powers, then... Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #58
We don't agree to that. Supreme Court rulings Hosnon Jun 2013 #60
Then, you should take issue with how the SCOTUS interprets the law, right? The president doesn't Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #61
mute point..... rtracey Jun 2013 #24
it's moot shanti Jun 2013 #53
"Dumbya," Pappy Bush, Clinton and presidents before Obama made recess appointments. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #31
Sounds like the whiny scum sucking Rethuglicans ran to the court... roamer65 Jun 2013 #37
the RCons obstruct appts.& when no one's heading a certain dept., they complain O is doing a bad job wordpix Jun 2013 #46
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