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cosmicone

(11,014 posts)

74. I respect your right to wear whatever when legally allowed.

Mon Jul 22, 2013, 12:36 AM

Jul 2013

However, some statistics to the rescue --

Less than 5% of Muslim women in Albania, Kosovo, Bosnia, Sri Lanka, Thailand, Lebanon, Turkey, India, Indonesia and Bangladesh wear the burkha or hijab.

Less than 25% of women in Pakistan wear those as well.

However, near 100% of women in Saudi Arabia and Iran wear it. The burkha/hijab use was non-existent in middle class and upper class women of Afghanistan until Taliban took over.

Furthermore, as soon as Muslim women migrate to a Western country, over 50% of them stop wearing the burkha or hijab.

Would this not lead to a statistically significant conclusion that a majority of Muslim women do not like wearing those garments unless they live in a coercive society that forces them to wear the burkha/hijab?

More recently, many Muslim women are purposely wearing those as a sign of rebellion against Islamophobia and not as an expression of faith. One of my Turkish friends who was always in a Western attire and started wearing a hijab when she went to study in Berlin after a major anti-Muslim demonstration. She is not religious at all.

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France veil row sparks Trappes unrest [View all] Bosonic Jul 2013 OP

If people are so eager... JaneFordA Jul 2013 #1

That is not their way... cosmicone Jul 2013 #3

Not going to be easy for the French on this one 7962 Jul 2013 #11

Deportation might be a good idea Warpy Jul 2013 #52

But would you say the same thing for the US? 7962 Jul 2013 #78

I think women need to uncover their faces here Warpy Jul 2013 #84

Very good points. And amen to that last sentence!! nt 7962 Jul 2013 #105

"the language" jberryhill Jul 2013 #104

There is no "language of the united states", 7962 Jul 2013 #106

You seem not to understand France much jberryhill Jul 2013 #110

Oh, yes, I'm aware of that, 7962 Jul 2013 #148

They administered a chunk of Syria and Lebanon too jberryhill Jul 2013 #151

Many immigrants from Europe lived here in communities of similar ethnicity Gormy Cuss Aug 2013 #182

Yep. nt awoke_in_2003 Jul 2013 #18

I wouldn't cast stones there. France hasn't always been that civilized and allowing or not allowing- Moonwalk Jul 2013 #4

She can do so in her home or mosque. cosmicone Jul 2013 #5

That's freaking ridiculous. Why do you need a veil to commit an act of terror? Comrade Grumpy Jul 2013 #12

One doesn't need a veil to commit any crime cosmicone Jul 2013 #14

Wow, that is one of the nuttiest ideas in the arsenal... JackRiddler Jul 2013 #58

covering ones face with a mask is illegal in many places,. mostly to deter robbery and violent crime Civilization2 Jul 2013 #7

Ku Kluxers are not allowed to wear their hoods in public demonstrations I believe. byeya Jul 2013 #17

NYC - use of 150 yr old law against OWS LiberalElite Jul 2013 #26

Its not religious. Its not in the Quran. Its cultural riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #27

Harming women goes both ways. If a woman is raised to hide her face in public-- Moonwalk Jul 2013 #44

I think your opening statement is the one that defeats the rest of your reasoning. pennylane100 Jul 2013 #59

Um, no, my opening statement doesn't defeat anything. Yours is a different argument-- Moonwalk Jul 2013 #61

Where does the Bible require wearing a yarmulke? jberryhill Jul 2013 #116

I have no idea what the bible has to say about the yarmulke riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #121

"Western cultures do not have a cultural tradition of covering faces." jberryhill Jul 2013 #123

Uh huh. One hour of mourning in a sheer veil compared to a daily shroud riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #124

If you want to talk about "traditions" jberryhill Jul 2013 #126

Sure then lets quibble about thread count. Again you post a pic of a sheer veil riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #127

You missed these Christian women.... jberryhill Jul 2013 #129

Pics of cloistered nuns. riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #143

Oh please!!!! the bridal veil was worm much longer than 30 minutes Alameda Jul 2013 #173

actually face veils were common in the Western countries... Alameda Jul 2013 #165

Jacqueline Kennedy wearing a sheer piece of fabric for her husband's funeral riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #172

Because having your vaginal lips reshaped is the bitchkitty Aug 2013 #183

obviously, you did not read the article Alameda Aug 2013 #184

Her husband reportedly tried to strangle the police officer. pnwmom Jul 2013 #62

+1 JustAnotherGen Jul 2013 #103

I don't know, but could it be he was defending his wife? Alameda Jul 2013 #174

What She said. BlueJazz Jul 2013 #9

I agree with you on this one. Ednahilda Jul 2013 #15

Of course, they shoudl wear Paris fashion DonCoquixote Jul 2013 #29

This isn't about headscarves. Its about burqas and full face veiling. nt riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #31

and what civilized society are you referring to? Alameda Jul 2013 #51

On the one hand, I believe in freedom of religion, on the other hand.... Moonwalk Jul 2013 #2

The French police law is morally right. David__77 Jul 2013 #6

I consider myself a 1st Amendment absolutist but draw the line with things like the full face veil. alp227 Jul 2013 #8

The "public safety" argument is BS Bragi Jul 2013 #10

Actually the face covering ban DOES apply to balaclavas, masks and helmets riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #35

Actually topfreedom has been established in law in Ontario (Toronto is in this province!) Civilization2 Jul 2013 #38

Yay for Toronto... riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #79

Thanks, I didn't know that Bragi Jul 2013 #45

when it's over 100 degrees and I see a gal in Texas covered head to toe Skittles Jul 2013 #41

Agreed! hrmjustin Jul 2013 #54

Not true. Face masks aren't allowed. n/t pnwmom Jul 2013 #63

Whole lot of "I'm for rights except for *those people*" in this thread. (nt) Posteritatis Jul 2013 #13

Yeah, and some of "those people" are the Ku Klux Klan byeya Jul 2013 #83

How terrible either way azurnoir Jul 2013 #16

I wonder how many would choose to live a faceless life if not for the men in their life.... Marrah_G Jul 2013 #19

Perhaps you could get to know some Muslim women and find out? n/t azurnoir Jul 2013 #20

I could also ask the women of the FLDS if they would choose to live how they do Marrah_G Jul 2013 #21

but again you assume rather than reason or question azurnoir Jul 2013 #22

sigh.... Marrah_G Jul 2013 #23

okay I'll give you 2 examples of what I am speaking of here azurnoir Jul 2013 #40

Your first example doesn't explain anything Marrah_G Jul 2013 #42

actually the first example does explain something if you give it some thought azurnoir Jul 2013 #43

That doesn't prove a thing cosmicone Jul 2013 #47

Full face veiling is not religious. Its not in the Quran. Its cultural riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #24

yes I am well aware that full face veiling is not Islamic law azurnoir Jul 2013 #25

"Some" Islamic women "choose" to get their genitals cut off too. riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #28

That is North African custom DonCoquixote Jul 2013 #32

Yup, cultural, not religious. And I did qualify it with "some" Muslimahs do it riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #33

I think another poster has addressed this however azurnoir Jul 2013 #34

No negative health consequences being disappeared your entire adult life? riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #36

wearing a niqab is not being disappeared or relagated to second class citizenship unless azurnoir Jul 2013 #37

I was at an AIDS conference in Vienna cosmicone Jul 2013 #48

a niqab and a burka are 2 different things n/t azurnoir Jul 2013 #70

I'm sorry but it certainly is relegating those women to second class riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #80

Actually there is major health consequences with wear niqabs for instance widespread snagglepuss Jul 2013 #107

Not really as sun light is not the only source of Vitamin D these days azurnoir Jul 2013 #109

Then why are aso many middle eastern universities conducting vitamin d deficiency studies. snagglepuss Jul 2013 #111

One University and the study was of nursing mothers azurnoir Jul 2013 #113

Then why are aso many middle eastern universities conducting vitamin d deficiency studies. snagglepuss Jul 2013 #112

Thought it was so very clever you had to post it twice? azurnoir Jul 2013 #115

My first post was a reply to myself. The dig is based on Islam's insistence that the Koran is snagglepuss Jul 2013 #125

Alert this woman to health dangers! jberryhill Jul 2013 #178

If an adult woman wants to do that, then no, there should be no law against it any more... Moonwalk Jul 2013 #46

I am also against male circumcision, especially on infant boys riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #81

This is all true enough, but my point is that we need to avoid comparing apples with oranges... Moonwalk Jul 2013 #85

Headscarves, turbans, yarmulke etc do not equal niqabs or burqas riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #88

#1 & #5 I totally understand and are valid. But moving onto #2, etc.... Moonwalk Jul 2013 #149

I'm 110% behind going after ANY culture or religion that oppresses women riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #155

I'm not saying "go slow," I'm saying "go smart." I'm not convinced-- Moonwalk Jul 2013 #175

Is this okay with you? jberryhill Jul 2013 #177

Can you actually back up your claim? Alameda Jul 2013 #50

I am against any body modification on any child. Period. riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #82

religious beliefs are passed from parents to children like a diseases,. . Civilization2 Jul 2013 #39

+1000 smirkymonkey Jul 2013 #176

Thank you Azunoir, from a Muslima Alameda Jul 2013 #49

stereotyping or preconceived notions azurnoir Jul 2013 #71

Yes, I know. It's very sad. Alameda Jul 2013 #162

I respect your right to wear whatever when legally allowed. cosmicone Jul 2013 #74

I think you may be confusing the hijab (headscarf) with niqab (face veil) azurnoir Jul 2013 #75

I know the difference. cosmicone Jul 2013 #76

First of all let me correct your incorrect names of things Alameda Jul 2013 #161

In Iran, they wear chador - it's like a half moon shaped bedsheet, the curved part MADem Jul 2013 #179

Well Alameda, when I put on a mask it is liberating. People often do things in masks/anonymity they KittyWampus Jul 2013 #98

So, I'll put you down for.... jberryhill Jul 2013 #117

why the heck would you "put me down for favoring face recognition software bla bla bla" KittyWampus Jul 2013 #171

You know, Alameda Jul 2013 #164

exactly DonCoquixote Jul 2013 #30

The veil and hijab are not even in the Q'uran. cosmicone Jul 2013 #53

So? jberryhill Jul 2013 #118

Yarmulkes are not obligatory. n/t cosmicone Jul 2013 #128

Pass a law outlawing wearing them, and see what happens jberryhill Jul 2013 #130

I doubt such a law would be passed. cosmicone Jul 2013 #131

thus taking care of the hitherto little commented violent crime wave by Muslim women jberryhill Jul 2013 #132

It is not about muslim women. cosmicone Jul 2013 #133

How often does that happen? jberryhill Jul 2013 #135

The niqabs are not banned at all times... cosmicone Jul 2013 #136

I see... jberryhill Jul 2013 #137

Niqabs would be allowed at Chamonix too cosmicone Jul 2013 #138

So, I'm confused jberryhill Jul 2013 #139

"utility" cosmicone Jul 2013 #141

So public masquerade festivals are right out jberryhill Jul 2013 #142

How many masquerade festivals are held in France every year again? riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #144

People wear balaclavas other than on ski slopes jberryhill Jul 2013 #146

Actually there have been arrests and fine for wearing balaclavas... riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #150

Bad things happen when people cover their faces in France--just two hours ago! MADem Jul 2013 #181

Not in banks, convenience stores, supermarkets, etc--unless they're robbing the place. nt MADem Jul 2013 #180

Yes, they ban kippahs in France in public schools. Behind the Aegis Jul 2013 #166

No, they are not, but there is reference to head coverings in the Talmud. Behind the Aegis Jul 2013 #167

I like to see how men would handle having to ware this Garb. hrmjustin Jul 2013 #55

Like chausables, double cassocks, or the full soutane? kwassa Jul 2013 #56

Bishop Roskam Wore that rainbow cope to our gay pride celebrations in my parish. hrmjustin Jul 2013 #57

Love them all. kwassa Jul 2013 #67

My rector ran for Bishop of LI. Some of the parishes out there did not like the idea of a woman hrmjustin Jul 2013 #69

Not one of them is wearing a face mask. n/t pnwmom Jul 2013 #64

and the vast majority of Muslims don't, either. kwassa Jul 2013 #65

But the woman in the OP was wearing a "face covering veil." pnwmom Jul 2013 #68

I am sorry I offended your sensibility by deviating from strict adherence to the OP. kwassa Jul 2013 #72

Lots of people don't read carefully enough to follow a discussion. pnwmom Jul 2013 #73

French police telling a woman to take off a veil is as bad as Saudi police telling her to put it on. rug Jul 2013 #60

Not when the law bans all face masks in public, whether worn by men or women. pnwmom Jul 2013 #66

A law banning all face masks is as bad as one requiring them. rug Jul 2013 #86

Would you please answer my question? Women in face masks do drive in my city. pnwmom Jul 2013 #89

I would hand her my license and lift her prints. rug Jul 2013 #91

Lift her prints? Yeah, right. n/t pnwmom Jul 2013 #94

You're right. Let's just instead pass a law forbidding all face coverings. rug Jul 2013 #96

Elizabeth Smart would have benefited from such a law while she was pnwmom Jul 2013 #97

I think Elizabeth Smart had more to worry about than tattoos. rug Jul 2013 #102

I have no idea what tattoos have to do with this. n/t pnwmom Jul 2013 #114

First off.... jberryhill Jul 2013 #119

My insurance agent must have misinformed me then. pnwmom Jul 2013 #153

Yeah, if the other party is willing to do so jberryhill Jul 2013 #154

You first said that it was "none of your business" to check anyone's license for any purpose. pnwmom Jul 2013 #156

So you are saying jberryhill Jul 2013 #157

If it came down to a court case, how could I identify the person who hit me pnwmom Jul 2013 #159

Are you serious? jberryhill Jul 2013 #163

No. Why do you keep exaggerating what I am saying? nt pnwmom Jul 2013 #168

Okay, let me see if I understand what you are saying jberryhill Jul 2013 #169

You can't go into banks with your face obscured... so I guess it involves banking too riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #90

Which banks? rug Jul 2013 #92

Banks in most western societies like FRANCE. The place we're talking about riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #93

That's right, other ethnocentric institutions. rug Jul 2013 #95

Cultures and societies perpetually change in the face of new forces riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #99

The trick is that he changes in the correct direction. rug Jul 2013 #100

Animal sacrifice was a part of Jewish tradition and now is no longer practiced riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #108

It hasn't been practiced since the destruction of the Temple. rug Jul 2013 #145

I'm not male so no worries about indecency laws and exposing my dick. riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #152

Many observant muslims do not bank at institutions which loan money at interest jberryhill Jul 2013 #120

Fine. It was an example for rug that not all face cover bans are "islamophobia" riderinthestorm Jul 2013 #122

What do you know about Saudi banks? pnwmom Jul 2013 #160

It's not the same thing rpannier Jul 2013 #77

And the Saudi ban is based on its own law. The problem is both laws. rug Jul 2013 #87

He tried to strangle JustAnotherGen Jul 2013 #101

It is okay cosmicone Jul 2013 #134

When MLK and his folks marched on Selma... Deep13 Jul 2013 #140

Thank goodness there were never any riots over race in the US jberryhill Jul 2013 #158

historically what is the reason to cover up if not religious ? olddots Jul 2013 #147

Its really not going to matter. jessie04 Jul 2013 #170