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Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
16. But then, waterboarding isn't torture, don't you know? It's just a sort of game...
Fri Jul 26, 2013, 11:25 AM
Jul 2013

...like snowboarding or water polo.

Oh, our rulers can think up all kinds of things that are "not torture," in their own opinion, to do to Snowden. They can always find a Gonzalez or a Holder to write up the "legal memo." What a crock!

But I was thinking more of the irony that Russia HAS NO DEATH PENALTY--a legacy from communism--and all the hay that the U.S. State Department and the corporate media make over "human rights violations" in Russia. THEY have no death penalty. We DO. The death penalty is THE most inhumane of state powers, and has not only been proven to be applied to people later proven innocent, but creates a whole system and culture of brutality that infects every police department, every prison, every prosecution office, every courtroom, every public official and office holder and every community in the United States.

Brutal attitudes toward prisoners. Brutal attitudes toward civilians as well (we're all "perps" or "potential perps," in their view). Brutal attitudes toward other countries and other cultures. The death penalty both reflects and helps create this brutal fascist attitude throughout the criminal justice system and from there into society. Our rulers hold death over our heads. That is the reality. And if YOU get accused of a death penalty offense, and you are innocent, and you DON'T HAVE LOTS OF MONEY, your chances of proving your innocence are just about nil. That is the reality--into the slammer with you, scheduled for death if it's a capital offense, or facing long, long prison terms in wretched and brutal conditions that induce numerous suicides, even for minor offenses like drug possession.

The rot in our civilization has direct connections to the death penalty. Death penalty = life is cheap and yours doesn't matter if you are poor. And Russia, for all their difficulties, still holds to the HUMANE communist idea that the state should not have this power.

Yeah, Stalin killed A LOT of people, and now the mafia's doing the killing--but, a) these crimes were/are not legal, and b) we don't judge our own country entirely on the crimes of a few. We also include--or should include--the lawfulness and even goodness of most people and the better ideals of our history and tradition. So, yeah, this is an irony and an interesting fact--no death penalty in Russia, of all places, and, of course, no death penalty throughout the western world, except here.

Ergo, Mr. Eric Holder--defender of Chiquita's death squads in Colombia--has to apologize for our death penalty to Russia and promise not to inflict it on Mr. Snowden for his whistleblowing.

Daniel Ellsberg recently said that this (the U.S.) is a different country from the one in which he released the Pentagon Papers. He was exonerated. That was still possible, then. (This was in answer to a question about Snowden fleeing the U.S.) It's different now. There is no safety for whistleblowers. The state has too much power--grabbed with both hands by Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, and--tragically--confirmed and/or expanded by the Obama administration. Among these UNCONSTITUTIONAL powers is the infliction of death on ANYONE, at home or abroad, by presidential fiat, currently exercised by anonymous drone bombings in foreign countries, with no accusation, no trial, no appeal, and, if your kids or your neighbors happen to be standing around, to hell with them, too. Hundreds of kids murdered by U.S. drone bombings!

That says it all about "the rule of law" here and what the death penalty has done to it. It starts with executions for crimes, determined by trials that are egregiously unfair to the poor. It gets worse. Bush Jr. got his taste for blood in Texas, happily executing human being after human being, even in questionable cases, even with overwhelming evidence that mercy should be shown. War, torture, egregious looting of the public coffers, are NEXT. When you give the government the idea that it can kill people, fascism and all of its horrors are NEXT.

That is where we are--having to lie to Russia that we won't torture or murder Snowden--a man who has HURT NO ONE, and who in fact has helped our democracy (such as it is) with his disclosures.

"The land of the free/ the home of the brave."

Tragic.

Peace

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

What a disappointment atreides1 Jul 2013 #1
I thought Holder adding "Scout's honor!" at the end of the letter was a nice touch. Poll_Blind Jul 2013 #2
*cough*bullshit*cough* Newsjock Jul 2013 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author dipsydoodle Jul 2013 #4
why are you posting a right wing toon to make your point? nt alp227 Jul 2013 #28
regardles of its origin dipsydoodle Jul 2013 #30
How about promising to prosecute NSA officials who violated the law instead? think Jul 2013 #5
Hmmm, how many adamant DUers have screamed their conviction that Snowden faced no DP offenses? hlthe2b Jul 2013 #6
... "Mr. Snowden has filed papers seeking temporary asylum in Russia on the grounds that struggle4progress Jul 2013 #22
only because he has not yet been charged with espionage.. That is why Holden had to address it. hlthe2b Jul 2013 #23
The state of the nation. earthside Jul 2013 #7
My thought exactly. hueymahl Jul 2013 #13
I heaven05 Jul 2013 #8
The U.S. government cannot be trusted.... Swede Atlanta Jul 2013 #12
yep heaven05 Jul 2013 #18
How far deep have we sunk? cosmicone Jul 2013 #9
Sure. See how we treat Bradley Manning as an example. PSPS Jul 2013 #10
So now we have to Promise not to Torture and Kill, That was never a problem before Chimpy bahrbearian Jul 2013 #11
+1 Dawson Leery Jul 2013 #15
I don't believe Snowden would be suitably protected. avaistheone1 Jul 2013 #14
But then, waterboarding isn't torture, don't you know? It's just a sort of game... Peace Patriot Jul 2013 #16
stonrg on snowden weak on republicans. nt msongs Jul 2013 #17
US promises aren't worth the paper they're written on. forestpath Jul 2013 #19
It's totally pathetic that our government is forced to indicate in writing that it will not totodeinhere Jul 2013 #20
No mention of free Super Bowl tickets so.... N_E_1 for Tennis Jul 2013 #21
right, sure.... that's the ticket Locrian Jul 2013 #24
If you feel the need to promise everyone you won't be an asshole -- you are one. NT Jerry442 Jul 2013 #25
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2013 #26
Indeed. Welcome to the forum. Purveyor Jul 2013 #27
Russia to reply to U.S. letter on Snowden bemildred Jul 2013 #29
Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»U.S. Pens Letter To Russi...»Reply #16