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Hekate

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43. Some in the media like to play science against spirituality, as though it must be one or the other

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 12:01 AM

Aug 2013

Especially in their headlines and intro paragraphs. And a lot of readers fall for it. It's like there just has to be a boogyman in here somewhere: science has to be anti-religion/spirituality and religion/spirituality has to be anti-science. No they don't.

In my long experience, it's a false dichotomy. I believe in the spiritual realm just as I believe in science, even though they are two very different lenses for viewing the world and interacting with the world.

As to why our brains would light up like a Christmas tree on our way out, and as to why survivors would return with such similar stories, I believe that IS a true spiritual experience and that because we are embodied we experience it with our brains. Same reason we experience the world with our bodies and our sense organs. It's how we are made. What else would we experience it with, as long as we remain embodied?

Hekate

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Near-death study: Brains explode with activity as heart stops [View all] IDemo Aug 2013 OP

so mtasselin Aug 2013 #1

Impossible. No heart or brains. All guts and asses. Likely foam at the mouth at the end. Just sayin' freshwest Aug 2013 #22

GOP Brains explode from near thought experiences....nt Evasporque Aug 2013 #57

'near thought experiences' LOL!! freshwest Aug 2013 #61

Ha ha ha! The GOP has brains. Ha ha ha! You crack me up! Kablooie Aug 2013 #82

I thought this had been pretty well assumed already. TwilightGardener Aug 2013 #2

Bad reporting, IMHO. "Physical noise" - is that even a clinical term? closeupready Aug 2013 #3

If a rat dies in the forest ashling Aug 2013 #12

Tyical media dumbing down of science. progressoid Aug 2013 #21

+++ !,000 +++ n/t RKP5637 Aug 2013 #24

or dumbing down spirituality. Maybe this is just what happens in the body as the soul leaves it. olddad56 Aug 2013 #29

My first thought about this. boguspotus Aug 2013 #34

Some in the media like to play science against spirituality, as though it must be one or the other Hekate Aug 2013 #43

Bravo! didact Aug 2013 #65

I've noticed the same thing, and agree! AverageJoe90 Aug 2013 #77

Thank you for summing up my feelings so eloquently. EOTE Aug 2013 #94

LOL snooper2 Aug 2013 #48

What is the soul? Is there such a thing as a personal identity that exists after the physical body hedgehog Aug 2013 #54

When there are no more energy to make your brain work snooper2 Aug 2013 #56

^^^^This!^^^ n/t KatyMan Aug 2013 #60

Glad to see you got it all figured out. didact Aug 2013 #66

Just because you unplug a toaster and it can't "toast" bread anymore woodsprite Aug 2013 #105

Dear Woodsprite- I like the analogy of a car. When we exit a car we don't cease to exist. KittyWampus Aug 2013 #108

I was a drop of water that fell from the sky and I was just that drop until my fall ended gtar100 Aug 2013 #139

I don't believe that we become the bottom of someone's foot after we die. Kablooie Aug 2013 #83

Perhaps when we die we discover we are the eyes of the world. KittyWampus Aug 2013 #109

the term of art we use is "mind stuff". But ALL matter is essentially sunlight.Ponder that KittyWampus Aug 2013 #106

exactly. i agree 1000%. lol. everything can't be explained by science and okieinpain Aug 2013 #63

I think you mean "not everything can be explained by science". EOTE Aug 2013 #95

there are certainly things that science can't explain yet samsingh Aug 2013 #131

I'll go along with everything you say except for using the bible okieinpain Aug 2013 #140

I'm interested in hearing what others who have experienced NDEs have to say about this. EOTE Aug 2013 #92

I've only had OBEs, no NDEs, and they don't compare from what I've read, kentauros Aug 2013 #112

Thanks for the link. EOTE Aug 2013 #149

You've probably delved deeper in it than I have. kentauros Aug 2013 #150

Agreed. Thanks. closeupready Aug 2013 #36

I participated in many codes back in the day I worked critical care Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #39

I have read numerous accounts like this Duer 157099 Aug 2013 #44

The big question,... CanSocDem Aug 2013 #47

Reality has already been scientifically proven to be non-local. If we posit Consciousness as the KittyWampus Aug 2013 #110

It may be a little early in the day... CanSocDem Aug 2013 #114

has anyone tested this explosive brain activity in humans? Rosa Luxemburg Aug 2013 #71

From the abstract: Duer 157099 Aug 2013 #72

That's "out of body" -- my mom experienced that; my dad had the full NDE Hekate Aug 2013 #59

I am so glad she came back for you. Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #64

Me too. Hekate Aug 2013 #67

I worked ICU back 840high Aug 2013 #81

Carl Jung's NDE is a particularly interesting read. EOTE Aug 2013 #96

Depends on if you view your brain as part of your body I guess. Neoma Aug 2013 #147

It's better to burn out, than to fade away. Socal31 Aug 2013 #4

Out of the blue and into the black. WheelWalker Aug 2013 #8

interesting...i had a cardiac arrest in febuary madrchsod Aug 2013 #5

Sounds like you experienced competent life support Half-Century Man Aug 2013 #6

So it sounds like your arrest was overturned on appeal. ;-) eggplant Aug 2013 #28

How else could we experience the spiritual except through the senses of our bodies & minds? Hekate Aug 2013 #7

Very sensible question. dixiegrrrrl Aug 2013 #30

killing animals just to speculate MFM008 Aug 2013 #31

It seems somehow wrong, doesn't it? The Stranger Aug 2013 #45

Don't feel bad. I like Ratties and had some as Pets....they go here >> BlueJazz Aug 2013 #37

Anybody have some popcorn? GoneOffShore Aug 2013 #9

Sounds like Jesus isn't magic. Someone should tell Sarah Silverman. nt valerief Aug 2013 #10

Sarah doesn't believe Jesus is magic... TeeYiYi Aug 2013 #18

You must be the life of the party. valerief Aug 2013 #19

Well, you must be basic reading comprehension challenged... TeeYiYi Aug 2013 #20

Where I live, Jesus is magic. Manifestor_of_Light Aug 2013 #35

Before someone says this proves... awoke_in_2003 Aug 2013 #11

gee... nebenaube Aug 2013 #14

also experienced at high g force mopinko Aug 2013 #15

I used to suffer from seizures... awoke_in_2003 Aug 2013 #23

If it did prove such a thing, it would prove that RATS have an afterlife. FiveGoodMen Aug 2013 #62

speaking from experience, it indeed does loyalsister Aug 2013 #80

It indeed does what? EOTE Aug 2013 #98

Electricity indeed goes haywire loyalsister Aug 2013 #99

It certainly does. EOTE Aug 2013 #100

No loyalsister Aug 2013 #104

I believe there's some kind of relation between what happens to one's brain during seizures and this EOTE Aug 2013 #97

Scientific Simulation Katashi_itto Aug 2013 #13

It's a cylon download Xipe Totec Aug 2013 #16

What the rats saw right before death ... Arugula Latte Aug 2013 #17

But that would be BAT, not a RAT. Coming to swoop them away to Fur Baby Heaven. freshwest Aug 2013 #25

You don't know what it is really like unless you really experience it. nt kelliekat44 Aug 2013 #26

Oh, I've had my chances. It's all so messy. Just call me Wheeze, Eek or Squeak! freshwest Aug 2013 #32

I agree Kelliekat44. there are those that experience them and those who haven't. roguevalley Aug 2013 #40

Idied 3 times, and had to be resusitated does that count hollysmom Aug 2013 #51

Or maybe something like this..... LongTomH Aug 2013 #38

I was just about to find a pic of the Death of Rats to post, but yours is great Hekate Aug 2013 #41

No, I just did a quick Google image search for "Death of Rats Discworld" LongTomH Aug 2013 #46

They did a similar experiment on white mice years ago. johnp3907 Aug 2013 #27

Somehow, this makes me sad. It reminds me of this. rug Aug 2013 #33

Thanks for this. Squinch Aug 2013 #101

Or This KinMd Aug 2013 #42

Why is it so important for some people to prove that religion is a big scam? leftyladyfrommo Aug 2013 #49

+ Infinity Octafish Aug 2013 #50

I have always wondered why it is so important for people to try and prove NDE's djean111 Aug 2013 #52

Why is it important to expose any big scam? Duer 157099 Aug 2013 #53

You don't know that it is a scam. leftyladyfrommo Aug 2013 #55

How do I know it is a scam? Duer 157099 Aug 2013 #70

But you grew up in a culture that came with a moral code. leftyladyfrommo Aug 2013 #73

You sort of make my point in a way Duer 157099 Aug 2013 #79

Don't ask Aristotle nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #85

I work with animals all day long. leftyladyfrommo Aug 2013 #91

But do they have a moral compass? Duer 157099 Aug 2013 #128

Why I said don't ask Aristotle nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #129

And guilt too Duer 157099 Aug 2013 #130

I think that originally moral codes were a cultural necessity. leftyladyfrommo Aug 2013 #87

Are they no longer a cultural necessity? n/t LTX Aug 2013 #120

I know I am about to step in it nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #84

But religion had to have been an important adaptive thing leftyladyfrommo Aug 2013 #88

The point is that today it is quite mal adaptive nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #121

You have every right to think what you think. leftyladyfrommo Aug 2013 #123

"Religion provides the moral code that makes society work." I am not so sure of that. yellowcanine Aug 2013 #115

Religion isn't necessary any more. Not for morality, anyway. leftyladyfrommo Aug 2013 #116

Anyone who bases their moral code just on religious belief probably isn't going to keep it. yellowcanine Aug 2013 #119

You don't have to have religion to do that. leftyladyfrommo Aug 2013 #122

The young in the US are abandoning the churches nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #124

I'm not arguing with you. leftyladyfrommo Aug 2013 #133

But you do not need religion to chose the light or the darkness nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #137

I don't disagree. leftyladyfrommo Aug 2013 #141

Will check them out nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #143

No but it does seem that the preachers braying the most about this or that sin are hiding the most. yellowcanine Aug 2013 #144

I just don't pay any attention to all that stuff. leftyladyfrommo Aug 2013 #145

I know a lot of people who just really want to go to heaven. leftyladyfrommo Aug 2013 #136

same reason the "Jesus can't be real" folks keep citing the same sources Jack Chick uses MisterP Aug 2013 #58

There's a lot of evidence that Jesus did exist. leftyladyfrommo Aug 2013 #69

Because so many scams have been facilitated by appealing to religion? yellowcanine Aug 2013 #76

Many scams have been facilitated by appealing to greed. That doesn't mean that money doesn't exist. Squinch Aug 2013 #102

Problem is many people including me were bombarded with scary hell fire stories as children yellowcanine Aug 2013 #111

But scary hell fire stories told to children are very different from the conversation going on here. Squinch Aug 2013 #113

I give credence to near death stories but they prove nothing about life after death. yellowcanine Aug 2013 #117

I guess you have the answers then, about who is right and who is wrong in this discussion. Squinch Aug 2013 #118

Let me throw this in nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #125

"The religious fear mongers use these near death stories as a means of controlling people." djean111 Aug 2013 #127

Why is it so important for so many religious people to subject others to their religion, "prayers," Arugula Latte Aug 2013 #78

Insecurity? leftyladyfrommo Aug 2013 #90

I think we are talking about two different things here: one is following a prescribed religion and Squinch Aug 2013 #103

They are scientists. They probably aren't out to prove religion is a big scam. Hosnon Aug 2013 #148

so the poor rats must have been fully conscious when they ripped out their hearts? :( Sunlei Aug 2013 #68

Yea. That's awful. leftyladyfrommo Aug 2013 #74

and speaking of souls.. G_j Aug 2013 #86

Some of those experiments on animals are just so awful leftyladyfrommo Aug 2013 #89

They did not rip anything out nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #126

So we can take from this that the rats are probably experiencing rat heaven? yellowcanine Aug 2013 #75

Mulholland Drive - 2001. randome Aug 2013 #93

This makes me a little uneasy. reflection Aug 2013 #107

I read that Steve Jobs last words were: leftyladyfrommo Aug 2013 #134

Well that's definitely encouraging. reflection Aug 2013 #138

One can only hope. leftyladyfrommo Aug 2013 #142

this could also imply that the lit brain is more perceptive samsingh Aug 2013 #132

Our whole existence may just be an illusion. leftyladyfrommo Aug 2013 #135

Le petit mort Trillo Aug 2013 #146

The brain is what the brain does. longship Aug 2013 #151