US kills two top leaders of terror group that attacked Kenya mall

[Kelvin Mace]

167. I am not an "apologist"

for terrorism, and your accusation is highly offensive. I have not insulted you in the course of this conversation. In the course of two posts you have called me "appallingly ignorant" and a "apologist for terrorist scum".

Ad hominem attacks undermine your argument, and I would ask that you stop insulting me, and engage my arguments rather than call me names. If this is not possible, then we have no more to discuss.

I am not "apologizing" for terrorism by explaining its cause.

1) Terrorism is a conveniently flexible word, and gets applied to people for a variety of reasons. No argument that the group in question engages in terrorism as properly defined. However, so does the United States, we just refuse to admit it.

A major trait of terrorism is the commission of criminal acts outside the legal strictures of warfare. No question this is what Al Shahab has done. However, the U.S. has acted in violation of the Constitution (Congress has not declared war against any nation, and the AUMF does not absolve Congress nor empower the President to abrogate their Constitutional duties). Thus, the U.S. has no legal military grounds to violate other nation's sovereignty and kill its citizens. Also, the U.S. government has issued no arrest warrants that I have seen to arrest and extradite these people for trial and punishment if convicted.

Thus, the U.S., like the terrorists, is acting outside the legal strictures of both military and criminal law as defined and enforced by treaty (strictures the U.S. agreed to be legally bound to).

2) Believing that the government has told the truth about something, especially something they have been caught lying about repeatedly in the past, is damned foolish.

3) U.S. foreign policy of the last century is a major culprit in the rise of terrorism in the world.

4) Which came first, U.S.government/corporate imperial interventions, or terrorism?

The order of the universe is dictated by cause and effect. If the U.S. would stop exploiting other nations for their natural resources and cheap labor, you would see a substantial drop in terrorism directed at the U.S. This reality no way invalidates our need to arrest and try terrorists. But ignoring due process and moving straight to summary execution is not only terrorism by another name, it makes the U.S. no better than the terrorists.

I never had problems making this point when Bush was in office committing war crimes, however now that Obama is doing it, people suddenly objecting to calling a spade a spade.