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MADem

(135,425 posts)

123. Ask John McCain that question. Ask John Kerry. Ask Bob Kerrey.

Tue Dec 10, 2013, 03:31 PM

Dec 2013

The American people sure as hell felt that way. Remember, they elected Nixon because he said he had a "secret plan to end the war." I don't know if you were around back then, but if you were, you have to remember how divided the country was about that conflict. People actually fled the country, they went to Canada, Sweden, elsewhere...there were an enormous number of draftees who deserted rather than go to to war.

And who built Cam Rahn Bay, one of the most sophisticated (and expensive, and strategically located) ports of its day? Talk about property! That was a biggie. Huge expenditure. Ro-ro capability...changed the face of military logistics (and the Russians got to benefit from it). Just the dredging costs alone, never mind the piers! See:

http://www.nhatranghotels.info/Vietnam/Nha-Trang-War-Time.htm

also:

And that's not the only infrastructure left behind, not by a long shot.

Cuba is not just about "property." That element, IMO, provides great cover, but it's not the whole Magilla. There's something more than that going on there, and I suspect it's something that's tough to forgive.

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Obama just shook hands with RAUL CASTRO.... [View all] MADem Dec 2013 OP

Sounds like an Elephant walking on Bubble Wrap PeoViejo Dec 2013 #1

I found a pic and a link-I added them to the OP! nt MADem Dec 2013 #5

And about time !! warrant46 Dec 2013 #154

iBeba Cuba Libres! MADem Dec 2013 #164

I love it! FarPoint Dec 2013 #17

"CASTRO, He's shaking hands with CASTRO!!!!" Heather MC Dec 2013 #87

They just shook hands, they didn't french kissed. Half-Century Man Dec 2013 #108

People need to just plain get over it. avebury Dec 2013 #31

The mafia/bush family are still pissed that their little scams were nationalized. loudsue Dec 2013 #112

TOTALLY!!!!!!! calimary Dec 2013 #121

That will cause right winger heads to explode n/t SkatmanRoth Dec 2013 #2

No doubt--but that's their problem! I can't wait to watch them writhe, huff and puff! nt MADem Dec 2013 #6

I wonder how many of them... awoke_in_2003 Dec 2013 #50

They're angry he got around his filibuster without 60 votes Thav Dec 2013 #58

Just show them the photo of Rumsfart with Hussein. pangaia Dec 2013 #62

also... alp227 Dec 2013 #97

Oh, those are priceless, especially Nixon and Mao Zedong. pangaia Dec 2013 #107

Brawaawaaa and we were discussing earlier Cha Dec 2013 #3

He was VERY smooth--as he is. Raul looked pleased. MADem Dec 2013 #4

Thanks for that observation, MADem.. Cha Dec 2013 #8

do you recall how long it was? cilla4progress Dec 2013 #101

Just under twenty minutes--here's the White House copy. MADem Dec 2013 #125

Wow a phone call to Iran and now shaking hands with the leader of Cuba davidpdx Dec 2013 #7

Dammit. They keep this up and peace is just gonna be everywhere... jtuck004 Dec 2013 #13

EXACTLY cilla4progress Dec 2013 #102

Nothing new - enlightenment Dec 2013 #178

Muslin soshalist! alcibiades_mystery Dec 2013 #16

Shh! davidpdx Dec 2013 #45

Further Proof that he is Mooslim Heather MC Dec 2013 #119

That speech of President Obama's...... BARN BURNER! Firebrand Gary Dec 2013 #9

It also kind of made the avebury Dec 2013 #10

Ted Cruz (no shit) was at that memorial--wonder if he was fidgeting at all..? nt MADem Dec 2013 #14

But but but he needs to have something to use avebury Dec 2013 #26

That is EXACTLY why he's there.... MADem Dec 2013 #29

"...in close proximity to people with melanin..." randome Dec 2013 #71

He's probably got some pinch-nosed little shit photographing/videoing him to beat the band! MADem Dec 2013 #77

best line evah... SummerSnow Dec 2013 #132

Or...as Rick Santorum would say.... MADem Dec 2013 #133

It was brilliant, Gary! Will anyone Cha Dec 2013 #12

They probably will, but I don't give a hoot... Firebrand Gary Dec 2013 #153

I hear ya, Gary! Cha Dec 2013 #155

^^^ The story should be the historic non producing Congress... ^^^ MADem Dec 2013 #162

Cheerleaders... Titonwan Dec 2013 #181

We elect LEGISLATORS to legislate... Firebrand Gary Dec 2013 #182

+1 nt MADem Dec 2013 #186

Look, Democrats and Republicans were much closer back in Ike's day, on all issues, MADem Dec 2013 #185

Yup freshwest Dec 2013 #201

Your link is broken, but here's a story with the headline: muriel_volestrangler Dec 2013 #11

It somehow got truncated, I fixed it, but the more, the merrier! MADem Dec 2013 #15

And, better imaging.. thanks! Cha Dec 2013 #18

He's eighty two....we usually see him in one of those military costumes... MADem Dec 2013 #22

Wow, I wonder who's next Cha Dec 2013 #25

Elections...so they say. We'll see. MADem Dec 2013 #30

"Elections... so they say" Mika Dec 2013 #168

Yeah, right backatcha! MADem Dec 2013 #169

I've been in Cuba during elections. Spout away, but, you haven't been there during elections. Mika Dec 2013 #170

Oh bullshit--the day that one party elections with the candidates picked by someone named Castro MADem Dec 2013 #171

You know nothing about the topic. Mika Dec 2013 #173

And neither do you--now stop being uncivil and trying to derail this thread with your usual MADem Dec 2013 #174

I don't anything about something I've participated in? Laughable comment. Mika Dec 2013 #205

Yeah, you "don't anything." Now just stop derailing the thread with your propaganda. MADem Dec 2013 #208

Again, you demonstrate your complete lack of knowledge on this topic. Mika Dec 2013 #209

Thanks 4 the kick--anyone can google and see what I'm saying is true. nt MADem Dec 2013 #210

At the same time they can use google to find out that Obama is Kenyan. Mika Dec 2013 #211

Mika, cut the crap and stop violating the copyright limitations of DU. MADem Dec 2013 #216

Looks like Obama is... oh god no>> eeeiii.. pangaia Dec 2013 #65

Hahaha.. already heard that from a winger.. Obama BOWED to Castro. mountain grammy Dec 2013 #90

Noes!!! They'll say he's BOWING to him! Rozlee Dec 2013 #76

My FB had selfies on it bluemarkers Dec 2013 #145

*shakes head* Rozlee Dec 2013 #196

Raul doesn't look thrilled. nt TBF Dec 2013 #19

You need to see the whole video. They exchanged a few words. MADem Dec 2013 #23

Just looks that way in the still shot. dipsydoodle Dec 2013 #36

I found some video of the moment--you can see him grin. MADem Dec 2013 #46

Yes - that's much better! nt TBF Dec 2013 #53

Who are these stupid, moronic 'news announcers?" pangaia Dec 2013 #67

It was a significant moment--Christiane was interrupting because her co-hosts MADem Dec 2013 #134

As Obama honors other world leaders, he honors the best in us. Ubuntu is in Obama, as well. ancianita Dec 2013 #20

+1,000 nt MADem Dec 2013 #24

Time to smoke the peace pipe there, too. yellowwoodII Dec 2013 #21

Libya anasv Dec 2013 #99

Who GIVES A FUCK!!!!! bigdarryl Dec 2013 #27

Well, golly gee--I give a fuck. I will bet if you polled the readership here, a lot of people give MADem Dec 2013 #33

Thank you. Cha Dec 2013 #55

Thank you MADem! n/t veness Dec 2013 #149

+1 warrant46 Dec 2013 #190

Apparently, at a minimum; twenty people do. nt Earth_First Dec 2013 #38

I do... awoke_in_2003 Dec 2013 #51

On the other hand, who are the under-educated who don't give one...? LanternWaste Dec 2013 #52

Many of us care very much about Cuba. nt TBF Dec 2013 #54

Well, I do. malthaussen Dec 2013 #59

I'm assuming you were Feral Child Dec 2013 #85

I care, thanks very much. a la izquierda Dec 2013 #89

So would i.... Deuce Dec 2013 #91

You do, and everyone who has posted here or viewed the video IronLionZion Dec 2013 #136

I do harun Dec 2013 #138

"The times, they are a-changing...." nt raccoon Dec 2013 #28

I think that song is an accurate reflection of these times--there is a lot going on these days... nt MADem Dec 2013 #82

Good job. Nixon went to China. Kingofalldems Dec 2013 #32

I think we already have, myself. MADem Dec 2013 #34

Pinko Muslim! nt onehandle Dec 2013 #35

....... MADem Dec 2013 #39

Good merrily Dec 2013 #37

Times were different then. The political climate was not the same as today. MADem Dec 2013 #42

No kidding. merrily Dec 2013 #44

Yeah, seriously. malthaussen Dec 2013 #64

I don't want to go into the CT realm.... MADem Dec 2013 #116

I sense it might have something to do Zorro Dec 2013 #75

We're on the same wavelength. MADem Dec 2013 #124

We didn't lose anything in Vietnam. ieoeja Dec 2013 #110

Uh, we lost 58K of our loved ones, in a war that divided families and resonates down the years to MADem Dec 2013 #114

I assume that was sarcasm. ieoeja Dec 2013 #115

Ask John McCain that question. Ask John Kerry. Ask Bob Kerrey. MADem Dec 2013 #123

You're comparing public to private. ieoeja Dec 2013 #129

Many of those fuckers are dead, though. MADem Dec 2013 #131

Yes. We, too, lost far too much in Viet Nam. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #159

It wasn't just the French who lost everything in Viet Nam. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #158

I would like to know too, MADem. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #156

I never understood that either... penultimate Dec 2013 #197

I don't think that's "it," though. MADem Dec 2013 #198

Like he was behind the JFK assassination type stuff? penultimate Dec 2013 #199

Not impossible to speculate that...or maybe it's something we know nothing about at all? MADem Dec 2013 #200

Maybe he was responsible for planting Reagan and W. in the WH... penultimate Dec 2013 #202

Ha ha ha! That would be reason to be pissed at him, for true.... nt MADem Dec 2013 #204

i though i felt a disturbance in the force is morning..... madrchsod Dec 2013 #40

The war mongering right wing will go into nuclear mode liberal N proud Dec 2013 #41

K&R DeSwiss Dec 2013 #43

Well awoke_in_2003 Dec 2013 #47

I guess. OmahaBlueDog Dec 2013 #48

Just a tad hyperbolic, don't you think? thucythucy Dec 2013 #56

Who'd you rather shake hands with -- Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer? OmahaBlueDog Dec 2013 #73

Well, it looks like you've got company thucythucy Dec 2013 #157

First, I'm genuinely sorry if I offended you OmahaBlueDog Dec 2013 #172

Yup, and Batista was a saint... n/t bobclark86 Dec 2013 #179

Far from it - but the Castros and Che weren't exactly a big human rights improvement (nt) OmahaBlueDog Dec 2013 #187

I'm not offended, so there's no reason thucythucy Dec 2013 #195

You know what is funny about that whole McCain babble? If any Democrat said anything similar MADem Dec 2013 #189

I would love to shake hands with living history. Eom roody Dec 2013 #60

It's a conundrum, certainly. I don't expect that we'll be singing Kumbayah soon. MADem Dec 2013 #61

Certainly Nixon shook hands with Mao, who did exponentially worse things than the Castros OmahaBlueDog Dec 2013 #70

Very true. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #161

We can certainly affect significant political change in Cuba if we are engaged on the inside, Old and In the Way Dec 2013 #69

All I'm saying is that Raul Castro is slimy. I agree we have to engage Cuba. OmahaBlueDog Dec 2013 #72

Well, Raul might be slimy, but.... Old and In the Way Dec 2013 #74

He is, but he's also an octogenarian. He ain't gonna last forever. MADem Dec 2013 #81

If Castro had really killed that many people... nikto Dec 2013 #180

Yes, and I think they might still admire (a la Limbaugh) his ability to be tough and MADem Dec 2013 #184

shrub was/is slimy heaven05 Dec 2013 #92

Y'know, Cheney, Bautista, and Castro can all be slimy. OmahaBlueDog Dec 2013 #94

yeah, yeah and so are shrub the bush, cheney "by any objective measure" heaven05 Dec 2013 #104

I'm not certain I see where we're going with this OmahaBlueDog Dec 2013 #120

I'm not going anywhere with it. Just so many 'leaders' on this planet that I wouldn't heaven05 Dec 2013 #141

This is why I sometimes hate the typed word - it lacks tone and context OmahaBlueDog Dec 2013 #142

hah hah every chance I get heaven05 Dec 2013 #144

While the Castros have been in power, the US: Comrade Grumpy Dec 2013 #100

Hello Comrade! Old and In the Way Dec 2013 #117

OK, I wrote that I wouldn't want to shake hands with Raul Castro based on his human rights record OmahaBlueDog Dec 2013 #122

Yes. I have met Cubans who were terrified of Castro and wanted to get out of Cuba more JDPriestly Dec 2013 #160

Waiting for teabagger heads to explode 3....2.....1......*#@&*@##&************!!! yellowcanine Dec 2013 #49

'Bout time. n/t malthaussen Dec 2013 #57

Look out! More of that peace stuff could break out! HappyMe Dec 2013 #63

OMFG! Cue the bagger smelling salts in 5...4...3...2...1 catbyte Dec 2013 #66

queue the birthers screaming for Obama's Cuba birth certificate. nt Javaman Dec 2013 #68

We didn't mean Kenya...we meant Havana--they both end in A!!! MADem Dec 2013 #79

... Javaman Dec 2013 #80

I unexpectedly teared up. Hope, not fear. Love, not hate. Madiba. nolabear Dec 2013 #78

Oooohhhh, now he did it!!! Beacool Dec 2013 #83

Apparently, they already are popping like popcorn--I love it when they get pissed off! nt MADem Dec 2013 #84

Benghazi! SoapBox Dec 2013 #86

Bengazi, Kenya, Havana OH MY! (to the cadence of Lions and Tigers and Bears...) MADem Dec 2013 #113

I think this is wonderful! Fuck the GOP. NT octoberlib Dec 2013 #88

And the earth stood still, right??? elleng Dec 2013 #93

Christiane Amanpour had to point out the historic moment to her co-anchors. MADem Dec 2013 #111

Well, Rainngirl Dec 2013 #95

I guess the RWers will see that as a bow Rainngirl Dec 2013 #96

Not to compare but PatrynXX Dec 2013 #98

So much cilla4progress Dec 2013 #103

Obama should spend his entire second term trolling the right. Drunken Irishman Dec 2013 #105

I think that's what he's doing! Gooooooooooood.....! nt MADem Dec 2013 #109

The madder they get, the stupider they look to the public. JDPriestly Dec 2013 #163

BAD President Obama! You were supposed to spit on him and slap him silly. kestrel91316 Dec 2013 #106

Damn liberal Nixon WallaceRitchie Dec 2013 #118

Priceless. Proof that Nixon was a commie. As others have SDjack Dec 2013 #152

Ah, the sound of Freeper heads exploding AnnieBW Dec 2013 #126

Juvenile John McCain weighs in BeyondGeography Dec 2013 #127

At long last, Johnny--have you no shame? MADem Dec 2013 #130

Oh. no the horror.... SummerSnow Dec 2013 #128

I heard Rush on the car radio on my way to the store earlier. RebelOne Dec 2013 #135

Good! Sky Masterson Dec 2013 #137

brand new crisis FemaleDemfromMass Dec 2013 #139

Simply fabulous! Well done, Sir! /nt Bragi Dec 2013 #140

O'Reilly is outraged! Outraged! As is Limpbaugh. Outraged! And Palin? Lipsticked and OUTRAGED!!! marble falls Dec 2013 #143

Bravo President Obama? JDPriestly Dec 2013 #146

tea baggers are whining up and down rafeh1 Dec 2013 #147

Most people don't know you can fly to Cuba Legally Just Search "Fly to Cuba" mitty14u2 Dec 2013 #148

You need to go through a 3rd country or get a State letter and go on a charter. MADem Dec 2013 #177

In Right Wing world you snub sitting heads of state and their representatives rpannier Dec 2013 #150

Most disturbing of all Vietnameravet Dec 2013 #151

Prisoner in Cuba? WallaceRitchie Dec 2013 #165

Cubans don't visit USA like Mexicans do. Americans don't visit Cuba like they do Mexico. MADem Dec 2013 #166

Great! yellowwoodII Dec 2013 #167

Bush shook hands with and bowed to the communist dictator of China Adenoid_Hynkel Dec 2013 #175

Hee hee--he probably needed help with the buttons, too! nt MADem Dec 2013 #176

This could lead to dancing! rucky Dec 2013 #183

break out the congas, it's cha cha time! ucrdem Dec 2013 #188

OMG...or Oh MYYYYY.... MADem Dec 2013 #192

This one has everything including a midget ucrdem Dec 2013 #193

Heavens to Murgatroid....they all earned their money that day! Gaaah! nt MADem Dec 2013 #194

And Grampy McSame shit himself bigtime. Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2013 #191

Yeap, and he had one hand on his .... Wernothelpless Dec 2013 #203

Ra�l H�ctor Castro was the governor of Arizona Ptah Dec 2013 #206

Different Raul! But he's got that "Castro longevity gene," apparently. nt MADem Dec 2013 #207

Eh, that's nothing. He shook the one from Brazil's hand next. And then DeKlerk! What in the world? freshwest Dec 2013 #212

I thought he KISSED the President of Brazil! MADem Dec 2013 #213

But did he sing to her? freshwest Dec 2013 #218

I can't imagine the effort to hunt through all that footage and put that together! MADem Dec 2013 #219

I've got more! This one really tells the tale: freshwest Dec 2013 #221

Laugh riot! nt MADem Dec 2013 #222

So *WHAT*?? Geeze Louise. nt LaydeeBug Dec 2013 #214

So what? Here's what! It's a big deal. We have no relations with the country of Cuba. MADem Dec 2013 #215

The righties are acting like he was colluding with the man to subjugate the USA to Cuba... LaydeeBug Dec 2013 #217

Good--let them scream and shout. MADem Dec 2013 #220