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Maedhros

(10,007 posts)

78. There is much more to the NSA's illegal surveillance programs than just industrial espionage.

Sun Jan 26, 2014, 03:57 PM

Jan 2014

You know this. Yet you virulently condemn anyone who speaks up against these programs, whether it be blanket collection of information on Americans not suspected of any crime, or eavesdropping on the phone conversations of allied heads-of-state, or engaging in clearly illegal industrial espionage. At no point do you even consider the dangers to our democracy posed by these programs.

Your only objective is to berate us for questioning authority and to demonize the individual who alerted us to the abuses of power by the NSA. When I ask why your little cabal of pro-NSA posters do this, the only answer is that Snowden broke the law followed by a number of ad hominem attacks on his character.

You, collectively, are appalled at Snowden's disobedience to authority - "he violated his oath", "he didn't follow proper channels," "he ran away and didn't turn himself in" - yet express little or no concern for the dangers to democracy presented by the reality of blanket surveillance.

That is classic Authoritarian behavior.

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German TV: Snowden Says NSA Also Spies on Industry [View all] Hissyspit Jan 2014 OP

Hopefully GG will post the slides / data. joshcryer Jan 2014 #1

Me too. K&R Titonwan Jan 2014 #5

It's important to remember that Greenwald and Poitras have released only a small fraction Maedhros Jan 2014 #68

Thank you much. Titonwan Jan 2014 #101

Industrial Espionage has been a Big Thing in world history bucolic_frolic Jan 2014 #2

Snowden swilton Jan 2014 #17

Finally, we are coming around to the dangers of the game we are cheering on... Demenace Jan 2014 #18

I'm not following you. Are you saying we should all just shut up about the NSA Maedhros Jan 2014 #70

What is your definition of illegal acts? Demenace Jan 2014 #74

Apparently, what is "wrong" with us is that we don't like omniscient government agencies Maedhros Jan 2014 #96

It would indeed. Titonwan Jan 2014 #104

It is amazing how you conflate foreign activities with the local issues... Demenace Jan 2014 #121

I'll put this here as well, even though I posted it in another response. Maedhros Jan 2014 #129

So, you're saying the US shouldn't have any spies, anywhere, ever? baldguy Jan 2014 #100

Industrial espionage is illegal, even when the NSA does it. Maedhros Jan 2014 #102

And when China, Germany, Japan, France, Russia, Korea and Israel do it? baldguy Jan 2014 #112

Baldguy, I'll give you this: you'll never let reason or logic rain on your hate parade. Maedhros Jan 2014 #118

"You conservatives"? That's just as bad as a Teabagger calling Obama a socialist. baldguy Jan 2014 #119

I'm more worried about preserving my personal freedom than Snowden's alleged crimes. Maedhros Jan 2014 #120

And you think RW libertarians like Snowden care about *your* freedom? baldguy Jan 2014 #125

Continue to attack the messenger. By doing so, you concede the important arguments Maedhros Jan 2014 #127

I know, it is amazing and rich... Demenace Jan 2014 #123

Dude, espionage is illegal anywhere but that exactly is why it is called espionage... Demenace Jan 2014 #122

The NSA steals industry secrets from foreign companies like Siemens, Maedhros Jan 2014 #128

fuck, i'm going back to pen and paper. nt bananas Jan 2014 #3

I doubt that we will ever go back jakeXT Jan 2014 #6

4 years of high school mechanical drawing down the drain. L0oniX Jan 2014 #14

lol I used to work as a draftsman during college. Psephos Jan 2014 #110

Yeah, this guy really wants to come home, doesn't he? randome Jan 2014 #4

Yeah, he's been proven wrong how many times? The govt has had to admit to what he says, not deny it. bloomington-lib Jan 2014 #10

Nobody is saying the information is not true... Demenace Jan 2014 #22

"We are saying this information is not his to expose and that its exposure has far ranging national mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #25

You come across like the people who say, a country should balance it books like families do... Demenace Jan 2014 #30

So you are saying mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #33

Again you focus on the news of the day and miss the entire forest... Demenace Jan 2014 #39

What is the point you are trying to make? mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #64

The NSA's activities impinge upon the personal freedoms of American citizens. Maedhros Jan 2014 #72

Which personal freedom of American citizens is involved with espionage on foreign companies? Demenace Jan 2014 #75

There is much more to the NSA's illegal surveillance programs than just industrial espionage. Maedhros Jan 2014 #78

You have no idea what it like to question authority... Demenace Jan 2014 #81

Industrial espionage is illegal regardless of how many countries may engage in it. Maedhros Jan 2014 #93

You are deep into word salad territory mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #95

That pretty much punked his argument. Titonwan Jan 2014 #107

I'm more than willing to give the benefit of the dount here mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #113

Having our foreign policy (and spying) masked as "counter-terrorism" riderinthestorm Jan 2014 #34

Because that is not the focus of the NSA to stop 'Terroists'! Demenace Jan 2014 #40

Yes. Obviously the role of the NSA is economic imperialism. Snowden's now proven it riderinthestorm Jan 2014 #46

Certain names always come up on this subject Titonwan Jan 2014 #105

Again, your point seems to be mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #65

There is nothing criminal about the NSA spying on other countries. randome Jan 2014 #67

You seem to have funny ideas on what is criminal or illegal... Demenace Jan 2014 #76

The people of the United States did not authorize the NSA to do some of the things it does. JDPriestly Jan 2014 #63

Super star, We are talking about NSA activities on foreign soils today... Demenace Jan 2014 #77

He was replying to your statement: mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #84

You do not get it do you? Demenace Jan 2014 #85

So when you say something, and somebody else responds to mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #90

My apologies, not trying to brush you or anyone off... Demenace Jan 2014 #94

Did you even read and comprehend what I said? mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #98

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2014 #109

And so many lies and just plain false accusations. A Simple Game Jan 2014 #11

You miss the point of this post... Demenace Jan 2014 #20

The Germans are vacuuming up internet traffic and using it to their adcvantage? mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #26

You plainly let the context of the poster's words woosh right over your head. MADem Jan 2014 #28

First post was about the NSA and industrial espionage mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #31

How you missed this story from the same revelation from Snowden is what I am wondering? Demenace Jan 2014 #35

This has to do with three countries (probably more) mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #37

Again, the difference between the Germans and most other citizens of all of these nations and us... Demenace Jan 2014 #41

"And by the way, because..." mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #61

That right there is the problem with your mindset... Demenace Jan 2014 #79

I don't see anything about Germany in the link I provided mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #99

Nice try at a walk back, but that isn't what you asked. MADem Jan 2014 #38

Sorry I wasn't as specific as I should have been mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #43

The world does work that way--it's why no one is getting terribly excited about all this, MADem Jan 2014 #50

I have to admit to being only slightly surprised mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #60

They won't, unfortunately, stop because we say so. Not even if we ask nicely. MADem Jan 2014 #73

I'm actually glad you took the time to post this mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #115

Phew--I can get a bit verbose, I know that! MADem Jan 2014 #116

Ha, I tend to be exactly the opposite mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #130

There you go people, when honest people stay on the side lines... Demenace Jan 2014 #32

Can you be specific about what I don't understand? mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #36

My exact point... Demenace Jan 2014 #42

So you are unwilling to spell out your argument mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #47

+1. Some of the word salad is pretty tough to wade through... riderinthestorm Jan 2014 #49

Thank you for pointing that out mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #62

So you are encouraging Nationalism as well as Authoritarianism. Maedhros Jan 2014 #103

Huh? A Simple Game Jan 2014 #111

Spot on randome Tippy Jan 2014 #15

When the media tires of him, he'll come home treestar Jan 2014 #57

Well of course the NSA is doing industrial espionage. fasttense Jan 2014 #7

Of course. nt bemildred Jan 2014 #8

When the ink used to draw the legal bounds of the NSA...... DeSwiss Jan 2014 #9

Poetic and real Demeter Jan 2014 #12

So uhm the NSA is spying on the MIC? Oh noes! What will they do now? L0oniX Jan 2014 #13

Yap, yap, yap. SoapBox Jan 2014 #16

Your Opinion And Your Opinion Only - Others See Things Quite Differently cantbeserious Jan 2014 #21

No, others do not see this differently ... Demenace Jan 2014 #23

Your Opinion And Your Opinion Only - Others See Things Quite Differently cantbeserious Jan 2014 #24

That is all you have... Demenace Jan 2014 #45

Your Opinion Is Just That - An Opinion - There Are No Facts To Support Your Opinion cantbeserious Jan 2014 #52

No facts support Ed's assertions either treestar Jan 2014 #55

In The Absence Of Evidence - No Conclusions Can Be Made - Only Opinions cantbeserious Jan 2014 #58

That is the most dishonest post I read in a while... Demenace Jan 2014 #86

Snowden Has Evidence - We Do Not - For Snowden It Is Not Opinion - For All Others - Opinion Prevails cantbeserious Jan 2014 #88

"I was told of instances in history when people have gladly cheered their own destruction" mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #27

Funny read on my narrative... Demenace Jan 2014 #44

You think that because SCOTUS (and the legislative and executive branches) riderinthestorm Jan 2014 #48

I'm sure you are aware that this has not gone to the Supreme court yet mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #51

So where do you come up with the 'it is illegal' line? Demenace Jan 2014 #83

Did you even follow the link I put there, just for a second? mindwalker_i Jan 2014 #87

Let me help you... Demenace Jan 2014 #92

Watchdog Report Says N.S.A. Program Is Illegal and Should End cantbeserious Jan 2014 #91

You know this watchdog is not the Supreme court and that its opinion is about... Demenace Jan 2014 #97

The Supreme Court Gave Us Citizens United - It Is Not To Be Trusted In Any Matter - My opinion cantbeserious Jan 2014 #106

So you want to replace the Supreme courts also, where would it stop for you? Demenace Jan 2014 #124

Predictable Reply cantbeserious Jan 2014 #126

Only? treestar Jan 2014 #54

Then That Is An Opinion Of Some - Not An Opinion Of All cantbeserious Jan 2014 #56

Sorry to hear you're not feeling well. Maybe try taking a chill pill. Comrade Grumpy Jan 2014 #29

So because he has comforted and aided the enemy, in this case including US Citizens MyNameGoesHere Jan 2014 #69

You and your "Evil Commie!" rhetoric, yet again. Hissyspit Jan 2014 #71

Recommend jsr Jan 2014 #19

another day, another pointless exaggerated untruth treestar Jan 2014 #53

Only Your Opinion - One Cannot Prove Otherwise cantbeserious Jan 2014 #59

Perhaps the NSA is just engaged in economic spying so it can make good investments ... spin Jan 2014 #66

Exactly my thoughts.. nenagh Jan 2014 #131

Political Satire with truthiness polynomial Jan 2014 #80

Here we have the scumbag Snowden who probably have a big clue form some source Thinkingabout Jan 2014 #82

Go get those terrorists! Ash_F Jan 2014 #89

Who or what is the NSA NOT spying on? This just in: Indi Guy Jan 2014 #108

German TV: BelgianMadCow Jan 2014 #114

Rec'd. dipsydoodle Jan 2014 #117