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SirRevolutionary

(579 posts)

147. Randomized control tirals

Wed Mar 26, 2014, 12:21 AM

Mar 2014

are not opinion polls http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130908135623.htm The OP mentions 88 smokers who tried vaping, that's not exactly a whole lot more than 40 in the studies you're trying to debunk.

And this one http://download.thelancet.com/flatcontentassets/pdfs/PIIS0140-6736%2813%2961842-5.pdf had 289 subjects given nicotine ecigs, and 89 with zero nicotine ecigs vs 295 to patches. 7.3% is higher than 5.8% the last time I checked. But who cares if ecigs were definitively proven to be 3% less efficient than the patch anyway? They're affective and they're helping people stop smoking.

The over all issue is complicated, it's about stopping people from dying needlessly and helping them the best way possible, and curtailing a public health issue that's been around for millennium.

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Study finds E-cigarettes don’t help smokers quit [View all] onehandle Mar 2014 OP

Well, that's one study. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2014 #1

Countered already Treant Mar 2014 #27

I quit after 39 years using them. I think the study needs refined. nt Mojorabbit Mar 2014 #35

I think the study Treant Mar 2014 #37

It also matters whether the definition of 'quitting smoking' encompasses ... brett_jv Mar 2014 #54

Agreed Treant Mar 2014 #58

"...predicted successful quitting or reduced cigarette consumption" NoOneMan Mar 2014 #111

Against my better judgement Treant Mar 2014 #186

Can you give me a link re the personal vaporizers? Yo_Mama Mar 2014 #154

"but they actually chose people who wished to quit" NoOneMan Mar 2014 #97

Response Treant Mar 2014 #187

Read how the study was conducted. It was totally bogus and proved nothing. OregonBlue Mar 2014 #2

I assume it is a religious/morality trip, as the posters who are against e-cig use Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #6

Maybe ego is more important than anyone dying. Beyond morals. Selfish. Or paid n/t jtuck004 Mar 2014 #9

Its a high-horse thing. bunnies Mar 2014 #13

But don't we have the right not to breathe others' filth? alp227 Mar 2014 #32

Isn't that the parents' job? Treant Mar 2014 #40

True, but if no smoking/drinking is allowed in public parks "because children", alp227 Mar 2014 #73

'Cause current data Treant Mar 2014 #81

Shouldn't people be allowed to breathe fresh air in parks? alp227 Mar 2014 #82

I dunno Treant Mar 2014 #84

Guess what? 100 non smokers have more rights than 1 smoker in a public park. nt alp227 Mar 2014 #85

Guess what? Treant Mar 2014 #86

OK let me answer your question that's on a shoddy premise anyway, alp227 Mar 2014 #87

I'm sorry... Treant Mar 2014 #94

You do every time you drive your cancer-causing-chemical-emitting car, jtuck004 Mar 2014 #96

stop making sense... awoke_in_2003 Mar 2014 #109

There is no "filth" in vaping. bunnies Mar 2014 #43

I'm willing Treant Mar 2014 #46

Thats one of the things that gets me. bunnies Mar 2014 #47

My Wife Is Totally Against Vaping. jayfish Mar 2014 #57

Any ETA Treant Mar 2014 #61

No ETA But;... jayfish Mar 2014 #70

Speaking of skin moisture using glycerin Michigan-Arizona Mar 2014 #131

Her second hand smoke is hurting you. fun n serious Mar 2014 #197

Like Nancy Reagan said. Just say No. And that worked so well... n/t jtuck004 Mar 2014 #49

And yet she couldn't take her own advice SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #117

LOL. California - Smog everywhere ROTFLMAO yeoman6987 Mar 2014 #53

first of all it's "you're" not "your" alp227 Mar 2014 #67

Oh please yeoman6987 Mar 2014 #71

Easier to walk away from a moving vehicle's fumes than a rude smoker. nt alp227 Mar 2014 #74

You really think you're not being "force fed" gases from the car in front of you? Psephos Mar 2014 #76

you have no idea what you're talking about.. frylock Mar 2014 #78

The only thing thicker than the smog here is the sanctimony. Throd Mar 2014 #89

This. +10000 Psephos Mar 2014 #77

Agreed Treant Mar 2014 #28

Most of the "bogus" comments are pretty bogus in themselves NoOneMan Mar 2014 #112

It's a money thing Yo_Mama Mar 2014 #153

To find out how people quit smoking, you don't talk to smokers, but to former Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #3

"It's an example of bogus or junk science," said Dr. Michael Siegel..." jtuck004 Mar 2014 #4

Exactly! nt snappyturtle Mar 2014 #16

It's not really junk science. It's real science, it just seems to be drawing conclusions hughee99 Mar 2014 #19

It's either done right or it's junk. This is junk. And someone with a so-called dr behind the name jtuck004 Mar 2014 #23

Look where it came from Treant Mar 2014 #29

*snort* AND lol. That's a two-fer.n/t jtuck004 Mar 2014 #48

Was this study designed specifically to compare quit rates for e-cig users vs. non-users? hughee99 Mar 2014 #39

"We conducted a longitudinal analysis of a national sample of current US smokers to determine.... NoOneMan Mar 2014 #122

Siegel needs to take 5 minutes to review the research NoOneMan Mar 2014 #113

I don't think the results scare anyone. It is a poorly contstructed way to answer the question. jtuck004 Mar 2014 #120

That thread you cited is a bogus mess that's been ripped to shreds NoOneMan Mar 2014 #121

Hey, if you are comfortable with crap science, go ahead. The author's even say it's jtuck004 Mar 2014 #126

I'm not drawing a conclusion about whether or not employing e-cigs to quit is helpful NoOneMan Mar 2014 #128

No study. Walking around on the street. And all those e-cig stores ain't charities. jtuck004 Mar 2014 #130

So anecdotes? NoOneMan Mar 2014 #132

Anecdotes are as good as bad science from people with an agenda any day. jtuck004 Mar 2014 #133

Any science you disagree with isn't "bad science" NoOneMan Mar 2014 #135

Science is made by people, who lie, cheat, steal and tell what they see as the truth, and jtuck004 Mar 2014 #138

Find me a human who doesn't lie, cheat or steal and Ill find you a liar NoOneMan Mar 2014 #142

Yup. n/t jtuck004 Mar 2014 #143

i never thought that it was a way to quit just a way to get around the additves that companies put leftyohiolib Mar 2014 #5

Once you switch from smoking to vaping, you HAVE quit smoking. Demit Mar 2014 #17

Exactly, and this is THE critical point of 'wrongness' about this study ... brett_jv Mar 2014 #59

No, that's the wrongness of knee-jerkers NoOneMan Mar 2014 #144

Ecigs Lamonte Mar 2014 #183

It worked for me tortoise1956 Mar 2014 #7

It breaks the habit of reaching and lighting up... IthinkThereforeIAM Mar 2014 #11

I have quit smoking and e-cigs helped They_Live Mar 2014 #14

Ditto for me ... I quite in one day after 40+ years frazzled Mar 2014 #25

Congratulations! Treant Mar 2014 #33

Seems like there is a group who really want to kill e-cigs malthaussen Mar 2014 #8

the tobacco companies, for one shanti Mar 2014 #51

Jenny McCarthy Says They Are Cool otohara Mar 2014 #10

Coming from a woman who thinks not vaccinating your kids are Cool too LynneSin Mar 2014 #12

Kids? SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #41

The Mom in Me otohara Mar 2014 #106

People in their 20s are no longer kids SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #110

E-Cigarettes Spark Interest Among Millennials otohara Mar 2014 #145

He should actually vape weed SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #146

This message was self-deleted by its author otohara Mar 2014 #158

No problem SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #160

Your son & his friends are adults. They make their own decisions. Not you. Demit Mar 2014 #114

The Adults Next Door otohara Mar 2014 #164

What on earth does that have to do with your kids making their own decisions? Demit Mar 2014 #166

This "study" is horseshit. OP ought to delete this. Comrade Grumpy Mar 2014 #15

The OP is A Well Known Anti-Vaper... jayfish Mar 2014 #60

I'm the Dean of the University of California. onehandle Mar 2014 #69

I hope e-cigs work, I know a few people who really need to quit smoking. tofuandbeer Mar 2014 #18

They do work, and they work very well. n/t bitchkitty Mar 2014 #20

+1 tofuandbeer Mar 2014 #22

They do Treant Mar 2014 #24

That is awesome! tofuandbeer Mar 2014 #90

I have had the same experience as you Egnever Mar 2014 #175

They work well Ahpook Mar 2014 #26

I started with a cheapie disposable Prophet 451 Mar 2014 #36

Congrats! Egnever Mar 2014 #176

+1 tofuandbeer Mar 2014 #91

Well, here's my personal experience Prophet 451 Mar 2014 #30

Congratulations! Treant Mar 2014 #34

My kit actually has variable voltage Prophet 451 Mar 2014 #38

Oooh, you got a good one! Treant Mar 2014 #42

I got a Vision 1000 kit Prophet 451 Mar 2014 #52

I DIY Treant Mar 2014 #63

I'm very happy with it Prophet 451 Mar 2014 #66

Dont rush into DIY Egnever Mar 2014 #177

Congrats :) Ahpook Mar 2014 #104

So Proud of you Prophet yeoman6987 Mar 2014 #55

Thanks very much Prophet 451 Mar 2014 #98

Woo hoo! Congrats! tofuandbeer Mar 2014 #92

Thanks, man! Prophet 451 Mar 2014 #99

They worked for me Egnever Mar 2014 #174

This study is just plain wrong. n/t bitchkitty Mar 2014 #21

Patches and drugs don't either in that they are addictions also so..... glinda Mar 2014 #31

Even if this silly Mickey Mouse study could be taken seriously SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #44

If we can fully determine e-cigs do not effectively help people quit or reduce cigarette consumption NoOneMan Mar 2014 #123

Cold turkey has been proven the most effective way to quit? SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #125

NRT's has most certainly not been shown to be more effective than cold-turkey NoOneMan Mar 2014 #127

The link you posted is a survey on NRTs SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #134

Um. Yes. In response to: "Cold turkey has been proven the most effective way to quit?" NoOneMan Mar 2014 #136

By all means please do SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #140

Ok, so check out your list NoOneMan Mar 2014 #141

Randomized control tirals SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #147

The OP study is of ~1000 current smokers NoOneMan Mar 2014 #148

Confirmation Bias Treant Mar 2014 #189

Yes, I hope you addressed your problem NoOneMan Mar 2014 #191

Naw, I'll keep my "problem" Treant Mar 2014 #202

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2015 #204

Here is how fucked up this "study" is: KittyWampus Mar 2014 #45

So, which tobacco company sponsored this study? pffshht Mar 2014 #50

Half the major tobacco companies have bought up e-cig companies. onehandle Mar 2014 #56

And They Are ALL Garbage. jayfish Mar 2014 #62

The masses buy what's at the Kwik-E-Mart. onehandle Mar 2014 #65

Any numbers to back that up? jayfish Mar 2014 #72

Not really, energumen Mar 2014 #192

bogus 'study' should have used the term nicotine addiction- & explain the health difference between Sunlei Mar 2014 #64

One of the main problems I've faced when trying to quit my habit of smoking cigarettes ... spin Mar 2014 #68

Nobody in this thread or in the linked article brought up banning anything? onehandle Mar 2014 #75

When You... jayfish Mar 2014 #80

Specious thinking/slander. You should work for the NRA. nt onehandle Mar 2014 #88

Oddly the same tactics used by the gun control advocates in their attempt to ban firearms ... spin Mar 2014 #100

Nobody in this thread or in the linked article brought up banning anything. onehandle Mar 2014 #101

That may be true but while many gun control advocates state they do not wish to ban ... spin Mar 2014 #102

Nobody in this thread or in the linked article brought up guns either. onehandle Mar 2014 #103

Why is that odd? Is it unfair for me to point out that tactics used by those who favor ... spin Mar 2014 #105

Banning is the same as regulating? onehandle Mar 2014 #118

The term I used was in the first sentence of my reply was "greatly resisting and banning." spin Mar 2014 #119

Exactly energumen Mar 2014 #193

Young man knew stopped smoking HockeyMom Mar 2014 #79

From what some said above, Treant Mar 2014 #83

Smoking an ecig... SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #115

There's the flaw Yo_Mama Mar 2014 #150

You know how smokers quit? By quitting. PeteSelman Mar 2014 #93

The science basically agrees with you NoOneMan Mar 2014 #124

Apparently many don't realize that vaping is not smoking. That the particles released in the exhale OregonBlue Mar 2014 #95

they need to differentiate addiction to nicotine and smoking Skittles Mar 2014 #107

My DIL smokes a couple of cigs every few weeks HockeyMom Mar 2014 #116

the subject is whether or not E-cigs help people stop smoking Skittles Mar 2014 #129

They were the only thing... awoke_in_2003 Mar 2014 #108

The real question is why e-cigs works so well to help some people quit Yo_Mama Mar 2014 #151

I went with a decent setup... awoke_in_2003 Mar 2014 #157

Wow, that is not much nicotine! n/t Yo_Mama Mar 2014 #163

I used to smoke a pack a day... awoke_in_2003 Mar 2014 #165

Which is why I don't want to see this option taxed/regulated out of existence. n/t Yo_Mama Mar 2014 #167

as an ex-smoker energumen Mar 2014 #194

I don't use them to quit smoking riverwalker Mar 2014 #137

Also, e-cig smokers are only 57% as cool as tobacco smokers. Pterodactyl Mar 2014 #139

Well, That's True RobinA Mar 2014 #162

But so many smokers have quit using them!!! Yo_Mama Mar 2014 #149

E-cigarettes are still a nicotine delivery system... Historic NY Mar 2014 #152

Quitting what? Apparently you think the whole idea is for people to quit nicotine. Demit Mar 2014 #155

It's the nicotine that causes heart diseases jmowreader Mar 2014 #178

OMG, ALERT THE FDA! They've mistakenly approved nicotine patches, lozenges & gum. Demit Mar 2014 #180

They didn't approve them for long-term use jmowreader Mar 2014 #181

Oh. Exactly how long does the FDA approve them for? What's the cutoff? Demit Mar 2014 #182

8 to 10 weeks is the treatment regime jmowreader Mar 2014 #184

Here's a little news for you, with a link: the FDA does not consider nicotine a carcinogen. Demit Mar 2014 #190

Oh really? jmowreader Mar 2014 #198

This Doesn't Read RobinA Mar 2014 #199

Really. Your original quote: "It's nicotine that causes heart diseases." Demit Mar 2014 #200

Actually, Treant Mar 2014 #188

Well, but that's not exactly true Yo_Mama Mar 2014 #156

No Kidding! RobinA Mar 2014 #161

Who cares? MosheFeingold Mar 2014 #159

Quit in a day.... RedFury Mar 2014 #168

How long ago did you quit? Lars28 Mar 2014 #169

A bit... RedFury Mar 2014 #170

Good for you. Lars28 Mar 2014 #171

Thank you RedFury Mar 2014 #172

The wife and I quit in a day also. beevul Mar 2014 #173

I stilll use an ego style fun n serious Mar 2014 #196

Awesome! Egnever Mar 2014 #179

Thanks... RedFury Mar 2014 #201

A Fun Takedown Of This Study Treant Mar 2014 #185

HaHa. I qui the same day I started to Vape.. fun n serious Mar 2014 #195

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2014 #203