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Tommy_Carcetti

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62. Most people here believed it was the pro-Russian rebels from the get-go.

Tue Oct 21, 2014, 02:00 PM

Oct 2014

Very few, if any, believed it was the regular Russian military who shot the plane down. The only question was where they got the missile. There were many who believed they may have obtained it from the Russian military. Others believed--as this reports seems to follow--the missile was captured from the Ukrainian military. The only thing that can likely be discounted is that it was the Ukrainian military who shot the plane down, since there was very little incentive or motive to shoot at planes they know their adversary did not possess. (And no, the Robert Parry "shooting at Putin's plane" theory does not make any sense whatsoever.)

With your whole argument regarding the CIA being "involved with the overthrow of a democratically elected leader", I challenge you to put forward any such evidence of a theory, or alternately, shut up.

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Germany says rebels used Ukranian missile to down MH17 passenger plane [View all] rootProbiscus Oct 2014 OP

It also contradicts the Nulandistas on DU n/t cosmicone Oct 2014 #1

And it contradicts the Putinistas who insist it the was Kiev government. NT Adrahil Oct 2014 #2

^^^^^ This! +1. n/t ColesCountyDem Oct 2014 #3

+1 PatrynXX Oct 2014 #4

+infinity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!nt newfie11 Oct 2014 #11

You just have to wait a bit ... first the weapon's origin comes out cosmicone Oct 2014 #13

Sometimes I think you must be having fun. Adrahil Oct 2014 #15

I do have a lot of fun here cosmicone Oct 2014 #16

Well, you seem so very sure that the West is always the bad guy and the the poor Adrahil Oct 2014 #19

It was Pres. Obama with a new CIA super duper secret remote GGJohn Oct 2014 #23

I never said CIA launched the missile did I? cosmicone Oct 2014 #29

Then why is your favorite source, rt sounding like the proverbial chicken with its head cut off? karynnj Oct 2014 #20

Because the other shoe is about to fall. cosmicone Oct 2014 #28

You believe this for what reason? karynnj Oct 2014 #45

You're a cartoon. nt Codeine Oct 2014 #21

Personal attacks reveal the bankruptcy of cognition. n/t cosmicone Oct 2014 #27

Are you a fortune cookie? Throd Oct 2014 #42

Nulandists???? If you mean people who support Obama, this does not really copntradict karynnj Oct 2014 #18

Ahhh...So It Was Ukranian After All billhicks76 Oct 2014 #5

The area of the launch is a pretty good indicator of who fired it. Spider Jerusalem Oct 2014 #6

There are no pro-western rebels. And the area of launch was from rebel-controlled territory. geek tragedy Oct 2014 #7

Uh So Says NSA/CIA billhicks76 Oct 2014 #9

+1 newfie11 Oct 2014 #12

You read too much Russian state propaganda. nt geek tragedy Oct 2014 #22

You Don't Know What You Are Talking About billhicks76 Oct 2014 #24

I Don't Even Know What Russian Media is? billhicks76 Oct 2014 #25

+1 n/t cosmicone Oct 2014 #17

That is not conclusive evidence. Major Hogwash Oct 2014 #8

Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union CJCRANE Oct 2014 #10

And that leads to the obvious conclusion . . . Major Hogwash Oct 2014 #14

It was a Russian-made missile owned by the Ukrainian government. CJCRANE Oct 2014 #34

Go one step further karynnj Oct 2014 #47

I agree with your first point CJCRANE Oct 2014 #48

I agree - not to mention there is nothing that makes this intelligence report karynnj Oct 2014 #53

That Is An Excellent Analysis, Ma'am The Magistrate Oct 2014 #55

Well, now apparently the Ukrainian govt disagrees with the German report CJCRANE Oct 2014 #56

Ukraine is not changing its story - they never said it was one of theirs karynnj Oct 2014 #58

Another point: claims that the rebels shot down a military cargo plane that day at the same place muriel_volestrangler Oct 2014 #59

Makes sense to me karynnj Oct 2014 #60

That One, Sir, Went Smack Into The Memory Hole The Magistrate Oct 2014 #61

ah...So I was right all along... Blue_Tires Oct 2014 #26

Reading the replies to this thread.....fucking amazing..... Xolodno Oct 2014 #30

You Are Mis-Stating Facts, Sir The Magistrate Oct 2014 #31

Magistrate.... Xolodno Oct 2014 #32

Neither This Nor Your Following Comment, Sir, Addresses The Point At Hand The Magistrate Oct 2014 #36

This ignores that both Ukrainian parties had run on working for this EU relationship karynnj Oct 2014 #50

One more statement.... Xolodno Oct 2014 #33

"it was the Ukrainian Rebels with a captured missile (authenticating Russia's claim)" - no muriel_volestrangler Oct 2014 #38

The jury is still out on what the Ukrainian government and ATC knew CJCRANE Oct 2014 #35

None Of Which, Sir, Affects Who Pulled The Trigger The Magistrate Oct 2014 #37

True. But there is also the concept of negligence in the law. CJCRANE Oct 2014 #39

One Presumes You are Referring To 'Contributory Negligence', Sir The Magistrate Oct 2014 #40

It's a very clear cut legal concept. That's why the FAA halted flights to Israel CJCRANE Oct 2014 #41

Apples And Oranges, Sir The Magistrate Oct 2014 #43

They considered the area unsafe. The same as in the Ukraine CJCRANE Oct 2014 #44

And That Would Not Affect The Criminal Responsibility Of The Men Who Fired The Missile, Sir The Magistrate Oct 2014 #46

That's true. But the victims' relatives may still want to pursue action CJCRANE Oct 2014 #49

So You Admit It Has No Bearing On The Point At Hand, Sir The Magistrate Oct 2014 #51

I agree, I think that's the most likely scenario CJCRANE Oct 2014 #52

So You May Yet Resort To 'False Flag' Swill Then, Sir? The Magistrate Oct 2014 #54

Have you read the full 9/11 report? CJCRANE Oct 2014 #57

Most people here believed it was the pro-Russian rebels from the get-go. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2014 #62