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Algernon Moncrieff

(5,961 posts)
99. I agree with everything you say after "That is my opinion"
Mon Nov 24, 2014, 09:08 PM
Nov 2014

Petraeus executed the surge. He was a huge improvement militarily over Franks and Sanchez. One thing we now know in American politics -- one can rise from the ashes of a sex scandal. Republicans would likely welcome him to the role, and he brings the best real-world experience in the region.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/12/17/general-principles

Nowadays, most general officers, at least most American ones, do not see combat. They don’t fire their weapons, and they don’t get killed; for the most part, they don’t even smoke. In wars without front lines, American generals tend to stay inside fortified bases, where they plan missions and brief political leaders via secure video teleconferences. Their credentials are measured as much by their graduate degrees as by the medals on their dress uniforms. They are, for the most part, deeply conventional men, who rose to the top of the military hierarchy by following orders and suppressing subversive thoughts.

In recent years, the most esteemed officer in America—the very model of the modern general—was David Petraeus, whose public image combined the theorizing of the new school with a patina of old-fashioned toughness and rectitude. Before a sex scandal forced him to step down as the director of the C.I.A., a few weeks ago, he was widely regarded by politicians and journalists as a brilliant thinker and leader, the man who saved America in Iraq and might work a similar miracle in Afghanistan. Roger Ailes suggested, perhaps less than half in jest, that Petraeus run for President. Now many of the same people are calling into question not just his ethics but his basic ideas and achievements. History often forgives military leaders for small scandals, if they are successful enough. Eisenhower’s long-alleged affair with Kay Summersby has not much tarnished his reputation as an officer; even Hood, whose late campaigns were disastrous, is remembered as a paragon of bravery, if not of good planning. Will Petraeus be thought of, in time, as a hero guilty of no more than a distracting foible? Or as the general most responsible for two disastrous wars?

In Iraq and Afghanistan, most of the criticism has centered on the political leaders—Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld—who ordered the invasions and grossly mismanaged the occupations that followed. Less criticism has focussed on the soldiers and the generals who led them. This is understandable: the military didn’t start these wars, and the relatively small number of Americans who fought in them—after a decade, less than one per cent of the population—bore the burden for the rest of the country. In all those “Support Our Troops” bumper stickers and campaign applause lines, it has not been difficult to discern a sense of collective guilt.

But, by almost every measure, the American soldiers and marines who went into Iraq and Afghanistan were grossly unprepared for their missions, and the officers who led them were often negligent. In the months leading up to the invasion of Iraq, many American military units travelled to the National Training Center, a sprawling patch of California desert. There they took part in enormous mock tank battles against a phony enemy, called the Kraznovians, that was meant to stand in for the Iraqi Army but had in fact been modelled on the Soviet military in an imaginary invasion of Western Europe. When the real invasion got under way, in March, 2003, American soldiers came under attack from a hidden enemy that was wearing no uniform at all. There had been plenty of warnings that an anti-American insurgency might spring up, and none were heeded. The generals were unprepared.

How the Army got to such a point is the subject of Thomas Ricks’s “The Generals,’’ a series of vivid biographical sketches of American commanders from the Second World War to Afghanistan. In Ricks’s view, their quality, with a few exceptions, has steadily declined. His poster boy for the terrible early period of the Iraq war is Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, whom he accurately portrays as a decent man but an incompetent commander. Sanchez’s worst decision was signing off on harsh interrogations of Iraqi detainees—which, when the photographs leaked from Abu Ghraib, resulted in one of the war’s signal disasters. But his real sin was neglect. Stupefied as the insurgency spread around him, and paralyzed by Washington’s insistence that everything was under control (for months, Rumsfeld forbade American officers to use the word “insurgency”), Sanchez effectively delegated the strategy for the war to the lower-ranking generals beneath him.



I absolutely agree that war is a serious business and we fight to win. If it were up to me, we'd disengage militarily from the Middle East -- including Egypt and Israel. Our involvement there is more trouble than it's worth at every level. However, I'm a realist. Petraeus was the last highly successful General in the region, and he has intel experience. I think you could get him through the incoming congress with a minimal fight.

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Up next: Obama nominates socialist liberal who is too soft for the job and hates America. DetlefK Nov 2014 #1
No, he wants somebody who is on board with an Iraq re-invasion. former9thward Nov 2014 #36
yep. to the RIGHT of Hagel. Lieberman available? yurbud Nov 2014 #40
Mitch McConnel offered a clue: dixiegrrrrl Nov 2014 #44
It was Hagel who complained Obama has no strategy....to McCain TheNutcracker Nov 2014 #53
oh,,I missed that. dixiegrrrrl Nov 2014 #61
And his "old friend" McCain trashed his during the confirmation process deurbano Nov 2014 #74
What's wrong with a liberal? Therational1 Nov 2014 #81
Liberals eat babies and want us to gay-marry immigrants. DetlefK Nov 2014 #95
But still not bad. DeSwiss Nov 2014 #100
nice explanation heaven05 Nov 2014 #2
Just heard Joe Madison mention this on his show. BumRushDaShow Nov 2014 #3
Bring back Rummy MannyGoldstein Nov 2014 #4
At least he would promote a target rich environment. Enthusiast Nov 2014 #11
Yay! We want Rummy! He's way more efficient! RufusTFirefly Nov 2014 #22
Nah. Jackpine Radical Nov 2014 #79
Some SecDefs are more qualified than others when it comes to lying America into war. Bring back... Octafish Nov 2014 #5
Good one for Rummy the sociopath, lord of Mt. Misery the eastern MD place where Fred. Douglass lived appalachiablue Nov 2014 #19
The correlation between this news and the ISIS/Syria situation is not surprising. BlueEye Nov 2014 #6
In that case, wouldn't the target have been John Kerry, not Hagel karynnj Nov 2014 #46
Kerry is far too well established in both the adminstration and... BlueEye Nov 2014 #90
Since he will stay until the Senate confirms a replacement, Turbineguy Nov 2014 #7
He needs to fire Dempsey or lock his fucking hells bigdarryl Nov 2014 #8
Colin Powell reportedly enroute to White House. TheCowsCameHome Nov 2014 #9
Great line, just makes me sad. SomeGuyInEagan Nov 2014 #20
Agreed. TheCowsCameHome Nov 2014 #27
Be careful not to idealize Powell too much RufusTFirefly Nov 2014 #30
I did have "war criminal" in my post n/t SomeGuyInEagan Nov 2014 #62
You know the Secretary of State, unlike the Secretary of Defense, is not in the chain of command for 24601 Nov 2014 #104
The only Republican... HoosierCowboy Nov 2014 #10
Congrats to the people of Arizona on finally getting rid of McCain. hughee99 Nov 2014 #55
Good decision, Feral Child Nov 2014 #12
Damn....I always felt that as a Vietnam vet, Hagel Laurian Nov 2014 #13
I think you are correct sulphurdunn Nov 2014 #23
I agree with you. grasswire Nov 2014 #60
I wonder what's really going on here. " “the next couple of years will demand a different kind of rhett o rick Nov 2014 #14
it means were giing back in belzabubba333 Nov 2014 #31
Maybe a focus on dealing with armed and dangerous Muslim radicals rather than a focus JDPriestly Nov 2014 #94
You can bet it will be someone with recent military experience.... Historic NY Nov 2014 #15
Translation Robbins Nov 2014 #16
Exactly sulphurdunn Nov 2014 #24
Correct! RufusTFirefly Nov 2014 #32
a way to force congress into working w POTUS on Nat Sec? Schema Thing Nov 2014 #17
I'm only surprised to the extent that this didn't happen 2 weeks ago Algernon Moncrieff Nov 2014 #18
Petraeus is radioactive after the Broadwell thing. Arkana Nov 2014 #45
I disagree. Petraeus has sat out long enough over the Broadwell thing Algernon Moncrieff Nov 2014 #69
It won't be Petraeus. Broadwell was an excuse not the reason for Petraeus's exit. JDPriestly Nov 2014 #96
I agree with everything you say after "That is my opinion" Algernon Moncrieff Nov 2014 #99
Iraq and Afghanistan went badly, and Petraeus' military strategies are partly to blame. JDPriestly Nov 2014 #105
Who is next up from the GOP Rank and File? McCain? nt NorthCarolina Nov 2014 #21
Asked ? DustyJoe Nov 2014 #25
POTUS and Hagel have been in talks since October. ImaPolitico Nov 2014 #48
To restore the Senate to the Democrats? Martak Sarno Nov 2014 #26
Grassley for Sec of Agriculture exboyfil Nov 2014 #33
Well here comes another book INdemo Nov 2014 #28
Max Cleland? exboyfil Nov 2014 #29
Max Cleland? A Round Tuit Nov 2014 #35
These are names mentioned for possible replacement: deurbano Nov 2014 #34
Jack Reed not interested in defense secretary position IDemo Nov 2014 #49
Given Obama will be president for just 2 more years, Reed would be trading karynnj Nov 2014 #77
Of those three, Ashton Carter would be the most likely Algernon Moncrieff Nov 2014 #70
I first heard this PatrynXX Nov 2014 #37
+1 !! exactly lunasun Nov 2014 #65
hmmm? libodem Nov 2014 #38
Is UBER military hiring ? jakeXT Nov 2014 #39
Lincoln branch? deurbano Nov 2014 #76
Hillary! jalan48 Nov 2014 #41
If she's running, she will likely announce within 90 days. onehandle Nov 2014 #51
You are correct. jalan48 Nov 2014 #59
per NPR, Hagel wanted to take a harder line against Assad in Syria: ucrdem Nov 2014 #42
Good decision cosmicone Nov 2014 #43
Yeah, war as the solution in the Middle East. Hissyspit Nov 2014 #50
+1 BeanMusical Nov 2014 #85
Some other hoodlums will just replace ISIS. AngryDem001 Nov 2014 #83
I nominate Wesley Clark Richardo Nov 2014 #47
Wesley Clark almost started WW III. Shemp Howard Nov 2014 #56
That came nowhere near starting WWIII Algernon Moncrieff Nov 2014 #72
The on-scene British general begs to differ. Shemp Howard Nov 2014 #75
I think Russia would have protested loudly and cut of natural gas to Western Europe Algernon Moncrieff Nov 2014 #82
The Russians were not shooting at anyone. Shemp Howard Nov 2014 #87
That war was neither needless nor preventative Algernon Moncrieff Nov 2014 #91
Sorry...I wasn't clear. Shemp Howard Nov 2014 #103
yeah. Richardo Nov 2014 #78
Hagel complained to McCain there is no strategy. Though he was there to withdraw from war TheNutcracker Nov 2014 #52
The McCain who didn't vote for Hagel's confirmation, and said: deurbano Nov 2014 #67
Wes Clark? TheNutcracker Nov 2014 #54
Bill Clinton? exboyfil Nov 2014 #57
My prediction... Dopers_Greed Nov 2014 #58
Bad decision, Obama. TwilightGardener Nov 2014 #63
"A different kind of focus," huh? MoonchildCA Nov 2014 #64
Miklazewski's gone from WH and Pentagon both thought he was 'not up to the job' to firing's to cover up Obama's flpoljunkie Nov 2014 #66
So Hagel's the scapegoat, but not John Kerry? Hagel isn't in charge of foreign policy. TwilightGardener Nov 2014 #68
John Kerry has and continues to be deeply engaged in his role as the Secretary of State. flpoljunkie Nov 2014 #84
Hagel worked his ass off, and didn't screw up. I don't know what's going on here, that TwilightGardener Nov 2014 #86
Hagel was reportedly not interested in policy. I don't doubt he worked his ass off. flpoljunkie Nov 2014 #88
Kaplan is a hack. TwilightGardener Nov 2014 #89
We will have to agree to disagree. flpoljunkie Nov 2014 #93
On deck, another Republican... nt OnyxCollie Nov 2014 #71
I recommend Dennis Kucinich. F@ckwar. grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #73
That bothers me... Shemp Howard Nov 2014 #80
:) how bout we try it out way for once.... There's doesn't work! grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #97
Obama goes rogue, gives Wall St the finger? Zorra Nov 2014 #98
If I was Barack Obama, I would select Bill Lynn to fill the job eringer Nov 2014 #92
Jim Webb would be an interesting choice (nt) Recursion Nov 2014 #101
Given the Republican Senate davidpdx Nov 2014 #102
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