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Igel

(35,320 posts)
27. "Cannot"?
Fri Mar 16, 2012, 01:58 PM
Mar 2012

You're right. It's the playground that you learn these things, when there are responsible adults available for counseling and advising. The playground is precisely the part of school that is the least subject to regulation, and it precisely the part that is most commonly outside the classroom. In my youth I spent more time on the school playground on weekends, summers, and after school than during class time.

And it was on the playground that bullies bullied the weaker, that peer pressure created homophobes, that boys were taught to be sexist goons. That's still where this takes place.

But these are the things that the responsible parents I've met over the last 40 years routinely teach their kids. Some of the traits have become more frequent. Some less.

And they're still the things that many teachers still lament they're forced to teach because of all the irresponsible parents "out there." "character education" is something that some teachers embraced as part of a messianic vision. Most teachers looked at it and sighed. "Content. PD. Lesson plans. Classroom management. Procedures. Evaluations. Conformity with district curriculum guidelines. And now we get to build the New Soviet ... er, Modern Man."

Granted, they're the things that many irresponsible teachers feel are properly their job to teach. You just can't trust parents to love and rear their kids. We need professional child-rearers for the job, people who are truly enlightened and able to create the proper citizen for the way society should be. In the '60s and '70s and '80s people objected to Dewey's original vision of public education: It was intended to produce conformity, to educate the lesser Americans in how to properly behave as an American. Then in the '90s it returned, and many embraced it. As long as *their* values were being preached.

The problem is that the teachers often aren't there when the lessons are taught, however omniscient and omnipresent they believe themselves to be. And when they are present, they don't often teach the lessons in ways that stick. Even worse, they often teach in ways that make sure that the wrong lessons are learned.

In my classes kids don't learn how to deal with taunting and teasing. Taunting and teasing are prohibited by school rule. We defend against peer pressure and support students in resisting peer pressure. Drawing the line is decided by the principals; it's above the teachers' pay grade, and the students have little say in the matter. You *will* respect differences--at least publicly; if you're a raging homophobe you *will* keep it to yourself so that nobody has to be intimidated by your speech. To prevent intimidation, we restrict the behavior. Perhaps the bullies learn to not bully; but it's unclear, at best. It's clear that the putative underdogs learn to hide behind the teacher's authority for protection, even at age 17. Many haven't learned how to confront or argue with bullies, just how to get others to stand up for themselves. It's unclear what good this does in the larger social sense. Are the teachers really the agents for social change some see as their primary purpose?

Hard to say. My anecdotal observations pretty much say otherwise. The kids with irrespossible parents have been brought up in the same classrooms with kids with responsible parents. But it's not hard to tell which kids have responsible parents--there's some statistical noise, some good kids with irresponsible parents and bad kids with responsible parents, but that's not the way to bet. In other words, there's a small correlation between enlightened an teacher corps and responsible social behavior; there's a large correlation with responsible parents and responsible social behavior.

US Christian Madrassas - n/t lapfog_1 Mar 2012 #1
Absolutely get the red out Mar 2012 #6
Consequences of "home schooling". no_hypocrisy Mar 2012 #2
The other side Skelly Mar 2012 #7
When it works well, it works very well spinbaby Mar 2012 #13
My problem is my client is being punished for homeschooling (to the best of her ability). no_hypocrisy Mar 2012 #22
Home Schooling has its good and bad points fasttense Mar 2012 #3
A lot of it depends upon the child Alcibiades Mar 2012 #9
I've seen this a few times. Igel Mar 2012 #23
Isolation is what it is all about when religion is the issue. n/t Bonhomme Richard Mar 2012 #4
Faux Newz and Rush will take up the slack and turn them into good little... freshwest Mar 2012 #5
This isn't so much a home schooling issue as it is a religious fanaticism issue. teewrex Mar 2012 #8
There are good and bad homeschoolers, private schools, public schools, etc. jhasp Mar 2012 #10
quality of the teacher d_r Mar 2012 #11
Still a state issue? Skelly Mar 2012 #16
Oversight is the issue. Igel Mar 2012 #24
I worry more about the social 'isolation' that so many of the religiously sinkingfeeling Mar 2012 #12
Anything that teaches a kid to function in a bubble is a bad thing. Amerigo Vespucci Mar 2012 #19
I'd say anything that ultimately fails to teach kids to function outside their bubble is a bad thing Igel Mar 2012 #25
home schooling is not for everyone who WANTS IT mimitabby Mar 2012 #14
When I was in college Skelly Mar 2012 #21
True. I met illiterate home-schooled kids. shcrane71 Mar 2012 #15
I don't understand how/why Myrina Mar 2012 #17
Because the teams aren't academics. Igel Mar 2012 #26
We were partial home schoolers ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #18
It is NOT just the narrow "Education Spectrum" that is important. bvar22 Mar 2012 #20
"Cannot"? Igel Mar 2012 #27
90% of your list Skelly Mar 2012 #28
I vehemently disagree. laundry_queen Mar 2012 #29
I expected Home Schoolers to disagree. bvar22 Mar 2012 #30
I am an avid homeschool parent and I see potential negatives with homeschooling jhasp Mar 2012 #31
All in all, bvar22 Mar 2012 #33
How many homeschoolers do you know? jhasp Mar 2012 #34
Homeschooling can be a reflection of control freak parents Lydia Leftcoast Mar 2012 #32
Being President of the PTA Skelly Mar 2012 #40
Many homeschool parents have a low level of education in the first place. Kablooie Mar 2012 #35
The magical age jhasp Mar 2012 #36
Do you have any statistics to back this up? jhasp Mar 2012 #37
It varies nxylas Mar 2012 #38
I used to volunteer in the library in my small California town. MineralMan Mar 2012 #39
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