Editorials & Other Articles

Uncle Joe

(58,677 posts)

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Reply to NurseJackie (Reply #9)

Mon Aug 20, 2018, 01:19 PM

Aug 2018

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The Fact-Checkers Are Clueless [View all] Uncle Joe Aug 2018 OP

No, they're not. And facts matter. Hortensis Aug 2018 #1

The OP cites explicit examples Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #3

Yes, he's "speaking about the American Peoples' savings" but giving precious little detail about.... George II Aug 2018 #10

Using BERNIE'S PLAN, even the Mercatus report reflected two trillion dollars in savings, Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #13

Has this plan been adopted in Vermont yet? Gothmog Aug 2018 #17

Forest and the trees. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #25

Again if sanders has a magical plan then get it adopted in Vermont Gothmog Aug 2018 #29

Bernie is one of Vermont's U.S. Senators not the Governor of that fine state. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #39

Actually, his refusal to talk about Green Mountain Care's failure, and possible lessons learned ehrnst Aug 2018 #31

Vermont is not an island in the ocean and has a small population to boot, it's not even a Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #48

Gothmog has a good point. The desire to stick to Hortensis Aug 2018 #23

When Bernie was citing two trillion dollars in savings for the American People listed in the Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #36

Trump and Sanders BOTH promised BETTER healthcare Hortensis Aug 2018 #41

"National" healthcare? Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #46

Sanders needs to break that BOTH by producing a plan Hortensis Aug 2018 #50

It's not a static world Hortensis what can't be achieved today can very well be done Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #51

From the Mercatus report: ehrnst Aug 2018 #34

Bernie's PLAN isn't a law yet dansolo Aug 2018 #81

It's a bill and Blahous of the Koch funded Mercatus Center based his findings Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #82

that expenditure cut is based on a huge assumption: JHan Aug 2018 #35

++++++ brer cat Aug 2018 #77

I trust CNN and the other fact checkers Gothmog Aug 2018 #2

I trust the facts Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #5

So do I, which is why I trust Tapper Gothmog Aug 2018 #15

Did you listen to your own video Tapper either begins misleading or lies at about Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #19

I both listened to it and I actually understood it Gothmog Aug 2018 #20

Do you believe "government" and the "American People" are the same thing in regards to this issue? Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #22

LOL-so when will we hear about Vermont adopting this plan? Gothmog Aug 2018 #24

Who pays for the 20% of medical bills that Medicare doesn't cover? It only covers 80% brush Aug 2018 #42

Who pays for the bills that the uninsured leave at the emergency room doorstep? Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #44

I'm asking a serious question. If you don't know if Medicare for all pays for it just say so. brush Aug 2018 #45

My questions were quite serious, I suspect you know who pays for it. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #47

I don't know. It's a simple question. People with Medicare have to pay the 20%. brush Aug 2018 #55

I understand there is a detailed plan, but have yet to see it ehrnst Aug 2018 #63

I just posted the relevant paragraph, the plan does. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #68

maybe not Kurt V. Aug 2018 #27

Got anything on factcheck.org? ehrnst Aug 2018 #38

Except when they dispute something that Sanders says. (nt) ehrnst Aug 2018 #32

so now anyone who disagrees with Sanders is wrong.. JHan Aug 2018 #4

Do you have any rebuttals to the actual OP's points of contention? Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #6

I did. JHan Aug 2018 #11

"mainstream fact checkers are wrong" ehrnst Aug 2018 #33

exactly. JHan Aug 2018 #37

It is almost as if someone WANTS universal to fail, ultimately. Or that it should be Eliot Rosewater Aug 2018 #28

I was under the assumption that Sanders' bill was conceptual in nature with very few.... George II Aug 2018 #7

It's more than conceptual if you want more specifics Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #12

The specifics have been analyzed by independent, non-partisan think tanks. ehrnst Aug 2018 #30

The author makes assumptions on what the medical community will or won't do and from whence does he Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #40

Here's a video of Tapper changing Bernie and Alexandria's claim but don't believe your own eyes Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #8

Here is what Ricardo Alonzo-Zaldivar from AP has to say about the Mercatus Center paper: George II Aug 2018 #18

... NurseJackie Aug 2018 #9

... Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #14

Yes, Jacobin, that shining beacon of objective political analysis.. ehrnst Aug 2018 #16

Gothmog's video on post # 15 supports at least one of Jacobin's contentions Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #21

Splitting hairs on one phrase. ehrnst Aug 2018 #26

Bernie said "that wasn't what the study intended to do but it was in the study" Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #43

Not really Gothmog Aug 2018 #76

Who is this person? Gothmog Aug 2018 #49

The writer for Jacobin appears to lack an editor. lapucelle Aug 2018 #53

Jacobin? Again? lapucelle Aug 2018 #52

Politifact is wrong what Bernie said is true Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #54

In only one of two possible, equally likely scenarios. lapucelle Aug 2018 #56

I'll believe factcheck.org and/or Politifact over any politician when they disagree. ehrnst Aug 2018 #57

Are they not human as well? Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #59

Is Tapper working for factcheck.org and Politifact now? ehrnst Aug 2018 #61

It was half true because it was only one of two possible scenarios. lapucelle Aug 2018 #58

But according to Jacobin, Politifact is in cahoots with Mercatus to get Bernie! ehrnst Aug 2018 #74

Not in the real world Gothmog Aug 2018 #75

Now that's a statement I would expect to see from a Trump supporter. ehrnst Aug 2018 #60

Which statement? Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #62

The title of your OP. (nt) ehrnst Aug 2018 #64

And the substance of the article refers to the "fact checkers' and backs up it's assertions. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #65

I have yet to see factcheck.org or Politifact retract. ehrnst Aug 2018 #66

Well the OP is primarily about Tapper but there were other segments Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #67

"media doing the same knee jerk or premeditated misleading." ehrnst Aug 2018 #69

This isn't a tweet! The Medicare for All Bill, Mercatus report, Bernie's truthful response, Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #70

Fact checking is fact checking, and you posted an article that accuses ehrnst Aug 2018 #71

Fact checking IS fact checking, that's the point, so we're checking the facts of the fact checkers Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #72

When you post conspiracy theory worthy, unsubstantiated claims about the free press ehrnst Aug 2018 #73

The fact checkers based their assumptions on a faulty premise Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #78

Because Jacobin says so? ehrnst Aug 2018 #115

I believe you and I have used many of the same posts over the course of our debates Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #117

I think that your citing of that Jacobin article says much about ehrnst Aug 2018 #118

I've cited Sach's analysis on CNN as well but you have yet to respond to his article Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #120

Your very OP concerns the Mercatus study, and the fact checking of Bernie's claims about it. ehrnst Aug 2018 #121

I can just re post this because the same answer applies Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #123

..... ehrnst Aug 2018 #124

What are the "self corrected fact checks" lapucelle Aug 2018 #79

Well there is Kessler at the Washington Post Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #80

Sanders clearly didn't contact Blahous before making his statement on the study. ehrnst Aug 2018 #83

I have a feeling that talking points were rolled out based on a superficial reading lapucelle Aug 2018 #86

I know that it was featured in an email campaign for donations. ehrnst Aug 2018 #91

That's Blahous' opinion NOT based on the requirements of the BILL it's just an Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #94

From Blahous: ehrnst Aug 2018 #105

Still no answer to Jeffrey Sachs' criticism of Blahous' study. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #111

Still no answer to how the author of the study is not credible enough to understand ehrnst Aug 2018 #113

Kessler still gives BS's claim 3 Pinnochios. lapucelle Aug 2018 #84

Stop it with the FACTS, will you?? ehrnst Aug 2018 #85

... lapucelle Aug 2018 #87

Why use the word "cherry picked" when citing the results of study of the actual BILL. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #88

"So why should Bernie or anyone else cite that as it's not based on reality? " ehrnst Aug 2018 #89

A common sense example of what BS did in his big announcement lapucelle Aug 2018 #93

Bingo. (nt) ehrnst Aug 2018 #95

More like this Blahous example of his report. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #97

No, that's really stretching it. ehrnst Aug 2018 #102

There were two aspects of this report one pertaining to the ACTUAL bill which reflects savings of Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #96

"based on an alternate reality not based on the bill" ehrnst Aug 2018 #103

There are KNOWN aspects of the bill to which Blahous chose to ignore in his second scenario Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #108

Not very many known aspects of the funding mechanism... ehrnst Aug 2018 #109

Provider payment rates in Sanders's plan are not "assumptions" Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #112

This does not address the fact that Sanders did not accurately represent ehrnst Aug 2018 #114

Because only one of two possibilities was acknowleged. lapucelle Aug 2018 #90

As the author said, Sanders chose a number presented as "unlikely" according to the study. ehrnst Aug 2018 #92

Bernie chose the number from the grading of his actual bill and what about this? Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #99

So you don't think that he understood the data in his study? ehrnst Aug 2018 #100

I just presented evidence from economist Jeffrey Sachs stating of at least three major dynamics not Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #106

And I presented to you Blahous' statement on the conclusions that were not supported by his study. ehrnst Aug 2018 #110

Blahous' study is not out of line with some mainstream economists Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #116

The main issue you have is that he did an analysis "based on the actual bill" ehrnst Aug 2018 #119

Bernie was pointing to "An Inconvenient Truth" WITHIN the study because he believed Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #122

The only possibility based in the real world was the analysis of the actual BILL not Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #98

So he's not "competent enough" to come up with a scenario that proves Bernie's numbers... ehrnst Aug 2018 #101

Because the BS bill has no funding provisions lapucelle Aug 2018 #104

Indeed. Bernie's own projections are not as fleshed out, and he is not a policy analyst. ehrnst Aug 2018 #107

The study was purely binary, Bernie has wisely proposed a whole range of funding options and Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #126

Kick ck4829 Aug 2018 #125