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GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
6. Here's why I think we face a choiceless choice
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 03:24 PM
Jan 2013


Without fossil fuels we can't maintain our existing population or the civilization that supports us. We need that much energy to support this level of organization and activity for this many people. Without fossil fuel we would have only 13% of the energy we currently enjoy - assuming we could even maintain industrial-scale hydro and nuclear power without oil or gas. Because of our intrinsic dependence on energy, our population would eventually, inevitably be reduced to the same extent - down to perhaps one billion people, similar to the world's population in the early 1800s. Because we are so invested in our 10,000 year old story of human exceptionalism, we will not make any choice that might result in such a decline.

If we do not make that choice however, we will continue following our current climate trajectory as described by the IPCC's RCP8.5 and A1FI scenarios. That curve passes through a temperature increase of +6C or better by the end of the century. Mark Lynas' description of a +6C world makes it abundantly clear that such a rise is utterly incompatible with a large, complex, global industrial civilization - or the number of people it currently supports.

So what do we do? Well, we probably just muddle along doing whatever we think might be useful, as we usually do. Maybe we pray a bit. And maybe we give thanks that we weren't born a few decades later, like our children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren.
Thanks OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #1
That sucking sound you hear GliderGuider Jan 2013 #2
I forwarded the Nature article off to Governor Cuomo OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #5
Good! The more ammunition they have against fracking, the better. nt GliderGuider Jan 2013 #8
I hope we have another Sandy ... (sort of) Vox Moi Jan 2013 #3
Looks like the gas-lovers who badmouthed the Cornell study NickB79 Jan 2013 #4
Well, to be generous… OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #7
That was the first thing I thought of, too. joshcryer Jan 2013 #18
Here's why I think we face a choiceless choice GliderGuider Jan 2013 #6
It's not a “choiceless choice” OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #9
We will not make the choice to undergo that degree of sacrifice. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #10
I don’t see where that necessarily follows… OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #15
You have to start somewhere? GliderGuider Jan 2013 #16
EU makes up 15% of global electrical consumption. joshcryer Jan 2013 #25
You'll pry the new smartphone I buy every 18 months from my cold, dead hands NoOneMan Jan 2013 #11
It's OK, I can wait... nt GliderGuider Jan 2013 #12
Sounds like a personal problem to me OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #13
Me neither NoOneMan Jan 2013 #14
Even as inhospitable as the results from IPCC RCP8.5 and the A1FI scenarios, CRH Jan 2013 #19
Yeah, I expect things to unravel a lot sooner than 2100 myself. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #20
Can't be said better than that. n/t CRH Jan 2013 #21
Funny you should mention Kevin Anderson, ... CRH Jan 2013 #28
Spot on - "a choiceless choice" due to the nature of our belief in exceptionalism Nihil Jan 2013 #23
This was being denied here just a few weeks back. joshcryer Jan 2013 #17
In that case the denial was probably the indirect defence of the wind industry ... Nihil Jan 2013 #22
That would be my assessment, too. joshcryer Jan 2013 #24
Oh, hey, the next line of defense will be that methane is a natural substance. djean111 Jan 2013 #26
seaQuest DSV. joshcryer Jan 2013 #27
Does anyone know if the leakage, ... CRH Jan 2013 #29
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