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kristopher

(29,798 posts)
6. A question for OKSensei
Thu Mar 28, 2013, 03:48 PM
Mar 2013

Last edited Thu Mar 28, 2013, 04:53 PM - Edit history (1)

They tout their advantage by saying their catalysts "are 1,000 (of) times cheaper" than those now on the market while being at least as efficient.

What is the current level of round trip efficiency being seen with this process in current products?

ETA: Is this article reasonably accurate?

Electric round-trip efficiency of hydrogen and oxygen-based energy storage
International Journal of Hydrogen Energy (February 2005), 30 (2), pg. 105-111


An electrolyzer and a fuel cell have been integrated in a small-scale stand-alone renewable energy system to demonstrate that hydrogen can be used for long-term stationary energy storage. The economic and environmental performance of such a system is strongly related to the ability of the electrolyzer to convert electrical energy to hydrogen and the ability of the fuel cell to convert hydrogen back to electrical energy, which together define the round-trip efficiency of the hydrogen storage system. One promising way to improve the efficiency as well as to decrease the capital costs of the fuel cell is to recuperate the oxygen from the electrolyzer and use it as the fuel cell oxidant instead of compressed air. This paper presents the modifications made to the system in order to implement oxygen recuperation. The round-trip system efficiency was found to be 18% with oxygen recuperation and 13.5% without it.

http://journals2.scholarsportal.info/details.xqy?uri=/03603199/v30i0002/105_ereohaoes.xml


If this is reasonably accurate it means that this process has very limited use as a storage medium since the electricity it produces would be about 5X the cost of the input energy without yet counting the cost of the system itself.
It seems probable that the technology in batteries for EVs will be more competitive. Of course, efficiency improvements could be in the hydrogen cycle's future, and battery technology may not deliver on the cost reductions that are anticipated. We'll have to wait and see.
More from the article. GiveMeFreedom Mar 2013 #1
Don’t worry about it “being bought out and forgotten.” OKIsItJustMe Mar 2013 #3
No, work on electrolyzers continues Yo_Mama Mar 2013 #7
See post 6 kristopher Mar 2013 #8
That is a very significant development Yo_Mama Mar 2013 #2
You’re welcome! OKIsItJustMe Mar 2013 #5
They expect large units for sale in 2014, and prototype home units in 2015 bananas Mar 2013 #4
A question for OKSensei kristopher Mar 2013 #6
(Who is OKSensei?) OKIsItJustMe Mar 2013 #9
When it comes to fuel cells you are, of course. kristopher Mar 2013 #10
It's a different technology! Yo_Mama Mar 2013 #12
The primary objection to using hydrogen for energy storage is cost OKIsItJustMe Mar 2013 #13
This level of analysis doesn't account for costs associated with developing infrastructure kristopher Mar 2013 #17
You mean you don’t want it to be meaningful OKIsItJustMe Mar 2013 #20
This version of the chart spells it out better OKIsItJustMe Mar 2013 #21
Here are results from a 2012 study for the Navy OKIsItJustMe Mar 2013 #14
So what is the answer to the question? kristopher Mar 2013 #16
Really!? OKIsItJustMe Mar 2013 #19
Direct cost of platinum is only ONE problem associated with a hydrogen SYSTEM kristopher Mar 2013 #22
I’m not saying any of those things OKIsItJustMe Mar 2013 #23
Actually you are very carefully saying nothing - you STILL haven't answered the question. kristopher Mar 2013 #24
Fatally flawed math OKIsItJustMe Mar 2013 #25
Yes, it is an obviously contrived example kristopher Mar 2013 #26
I love that “exceeds 90%” (it sounds so much better than 91%) OKIsItJustMe Mar 2013 #27
That's a different technology Yo_Mama Mar 2013 #11
The amount of energy lost in the storage process is a key element of cost. kristopher Mar 2013 #15
fuel cells tend to wear out quadrature Mar 2013 #18
Batteries also tend to wear out OKIsItJustMe Mar 2013 #28
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