Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
Israel/Palestine
In reply to the discussion: Jimmy Carter Calls Corrie Case Ruling ‘Unacceptable’ [View all]pelsar
(12,283 posts)113. because it is personal.....bullets and kassams are real
That's the major difference in the way you and I debate in this group...you constantly try to personally .....I, to the best of my abilities, simply try to debate the issues involved.
yea, well because the consequences of actions tend to affect my actual safety, its not a small article in page 12 that "5 IDF reservists died in a surprise attack" from gaza-i'll give you their names if you would like, and perhaps you would like to know where the tunnel started from? Thats why its personal.
and as someone who claims they understand the conflict and "that you care" you show an amazing ability to be callous toward israelis lives. Your posts bear it out as i noted: a whole post on why houses, and fields are so important to the Palestinians yet not a single word on why they are destroyed. Only after your called out on it, do you proceed with your "i really care about israelis" or they really are not monsters. Left on your own, you never seem to include that actual information in your posts...its not just one post, its all of your posts, i believe a 100% of them.
that does show your real point of view.
______
I don't know enough about military tactics
good that finally admit it, now then, since you dont actually know, why dont you ask and i will explain why the IDF (and all of its ambitious non caring "generals" are not so foolish as to risk their soldiers lives to follow what your ideas.
....why dont i believe you
I would attack those I knew to BE Hamas supporters(through your intelligence links, your army should have a pretty good idea who those people are).
the house that corrie was defending was a "hamas supporter" many of the fields that were razed were from "hamas supporters" (and they have families to support) .....are you still going to stand by your statement now?
i didnt think so.......
________________
again with the "ethno centrism"
Every other country makes a distinction between the leaders and the people. You need to in the case of your own country
hmm, so your against having a political system that allows the "non elite" to have some real options of making it into the politics or in other areas of influence? wow, sounds like your a real elitist when it comes down to it, because a govt that actually represents the people, is part of those people and minimizes that separation of elites vs the "people" that most countries have. What it looks like is how i describe it...and you certainly dont like it.
your true colors are really starting to show. Oh i know you'll deny it, you always do once the light is shining on it, but it is shinning now
____________________________
What I said was that the family whose home Ms. Corrie died defending had nothing to do WITH the missiles
and the tunnel? that military intelligence claimed was there, that the sensors indicated showed that the tunnel was used for bringing in war materials........well? the house fit all of your criteria for destruction...
(plugging up a "hole" not only endangers our lives, but does nothing to stop a new hole from being built 2 meters from the "old entrance). But your clear about whose lives you value more:
You disagree?...well maybe you dont understand why pouring concrete would be a risky mission and if you dont, then you should be asking and not making statements of which you know little about.
____
ou need to learn to disagree with people without accusing them of being diabolical villains.
and thats coming from you?....."villains" in this case are those that propose solutions that are so simplistic, one sided an naive that the consequences will probably be so bad that many many many more will be killed, and if and when such a thing happens, they will take no responsibility for it and not even refute their ideas that led to it. There are examples in history of such "villains"
yea, well because the consequences of actions tend to affect my actual safety, its not a small article in page 12 that "5 IDF reservists died in a surprise attack" from gaza-i'll give you their names if you would like, and perhaps you would like to know where the tunnel started from? Thats why its personal.
and as someone who claims they understand the conflict and "that you care" you show an amazing ability to be callous toward israelis lives. Your posts bear it out as i noted: a whole post on why houses, and fields are so important to the Palestinians yet not a single word on why they are destroyed. Only after your called out on it, do you proceed with your "i really care about israelis" or they really are not monsters. Left on your own, you never seem to include that actual information in your posts...its not just one post, its all of your posts, i believe a 100% of them.
that does show your real point of view.
______
I don't know enough about military tactics
good that finally admit it, now then, since you dont actually know, why dont you ask and i will explain why the IDF (and all of its ambitious non caring "generals" are not so foolish as to risk their soldiers lives to follow what your ideas.
....why dont i believe you
I would attack those I knew to BE Hamas supporters(through your intelligence links, your army should have a pretty good idea who those people are).
the house that corrie was defending was a "hamas supporter" many of the fields that were razed were from "hamas supporters" (and they have families to support) .....are you still going to stand by your statement now?
i didnt think so.......
________________
again with the "ethno centrism"
Every other country makes a distinction between the leaders and the people. You need to in the case of your own country
hmm, so your against having a political system that allows the "non elite" to have some real options of making it into the politics or in other areas of influence? wow, sounds like your a real elitist when it comes down to it, because a govt that actually represents the people, is part of those people and minimizes that separation of elites vs the "people" that most countries have. What it looks like is how i describe it...and you certainly dont like it.
your true colors are really starting to show. Oh i know you'll deny it, you always do once the light is shining on it, but it is shinning now
____________________________
What I said was that the family whose home Ms. Corrie died defending had nothing to do WITH the missiles
and the tunnel? that military intelligence claimed was there, that the sensors indicated showed that the tunnel was used for bringing in war materials........well? the house fit all of your criteria for destruction...
(plugging up a "hole" not only endangers our lives, but does nothing to stop a new hole from being built 2 meters from the "old entrance). But your clear about whose lives you value more:
You disagree?...well maybe you dont understand why pouring concrete would be a risky mission and if you dont, then you should be asking and not making statements of which you know little about.
____
ou need to learn to disagree with people without accusing them of being diabolical villains.
and thats coming from you?....."villains" in this case are those that propose solutions that are so simplistic, one sided an naive that the consequences will probably be so bad that many many many more will be killed, and if and when such a thing happens, they will take no responsibility for it and not even refute their ideas that led to it. There are examples in history of such "villains"
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
129 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
It's like when we hear cops getting off scott free after an obvious case of murder.
Spitfire of ATJ
Aug 2012
#5
she was 23 years old that is a bit past the age of parental allowing or not n/t
azurnoir
Aug 2012
#9
.....nor was she obligated to try to protect those that were trying to kill me....
pelsar
Sep 2012
#70
Would you trust some fellow Israelis on the matter? or your own army? From the ICAHD website:
Ken Burch
Sep 2012
#89
I didn't mean anything like what you implied in the first line of that post, obviously.
Ken Burch
Sep 2012
#92
no...israelis dont have any particular character that puts them above anybody else...
pelsar
Sep 2012
#91
material possessions are not the same as human lives....(a very capitalistic approach you have)
pelsar
Sep 2012
#94
I thought I had a cite...at this point I don't...I've deleted that part of the post.
Ken Burch
Sep 2012
#69
I thought I had a cite...at this point I don't...I've deleted that part of the post.
Ken Burch
Sep 2012
#68
I thought I had a cite...at this point I don't...I've deleted that part of the post.
Ken Burch
Sep 2012
#67
Her parents have every reason to be proud of their daughter, and I assume they are
sabrina 1
Sep 2012
#76
It wasn't "a vacation" She was doing serious, respect-worthy work for peace and justice.
Ken Burch
Aug 2012
#13
In Rachel Corrie verdict, Israel deals new blow to international law (Jeff Halper)
azurnoir
Aug 2012
#21
Israel has the responsibility to protect innocent people in its jurisdiction or area of operations,
aranthus
Aug 2012
#30
well it seem that if Israel is indeed responsible and Corrie who is a civilwas killed as a result of
azurnoir
Aug 2012
#34
IDF was allowing civilians in an area where military operations were taking place without taking
azurnoir
Sep 2012
#54
so apparently IDF should not protect the lives of civilians what more can I say thanks n/t
azurnoir
Sep 2012
#61
parts 1 and 2 of your comment are quite conflicting but was Rachel Corrie a civilian
azurnoir
Sep 2012
#115
feel free to call/think/believe us as N....i am indirectly here called that anyway
pelsar
Sep 2012
#122
Excuse me, but it's Republican tactics to apply the term "bias" to an individual.
Ken Burch
Aug 2012
#36
Indeed. There are just as many innocent Palestinian victims as there are innocent Israeli victims.
Ken Burch
Sep 2012
#98