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Israel/Palestine
In reply to the discussion: In the real tally of violence, Palestinians have it much worse. [View all]shira
(30,109 posts)79. Amira Hass isn't really a post-zionist....
Last edited Sat Nov 23, 2013, 09:12 AM - Edit history (2)
These views make her anti-zionist...
But happily, and to our relief, the Palestinians are one people (unlike the hundreds that were in America ) and the process of Jewish settlement did not wipe them out. We are in a different age and a different region. Thinking big makes us forget that, unlike the model we admire and seek to emulate, we are a minority in the region. And the region is evolving and demanding a change in the rules of the game that have been so convenient for the United States and Israel.
The real question is not whether the solution is two states or one state. History in any case does not recognize end points every stage leads to another. Visions are also not lacking. The visions must develop and change during the struggle for equality and justice, otherwise they will become gulags. The question was, and is, how much more bloodshed, suffering and disasters will be needed until the Jewish regime of discrimination and separation, which we have created here over the past 64 years, crumbles.
The Palestinians provided us, the Israelis, a ladder that would have saved us the kind of suffering and loss that we have caused them. A ladder that we could have climbed to a historic rung where we could have been accepted in the region as neighbors who also have roots in this place and rights not only as aggressive invaders. But successive Israeli governments, with the backing of their voters, have knocked the ladder over. They knew only too well why they must thwart the two-state solution (in its original, pre-1967 borders format ). It would have led to different ways of living together and sharing the land. But the basic logic of these ways of life requires giving up Jewish hegemony and superiority.
The real question is not whether the solution is two states or one state. History in any case does not recognize end points every stage leads to another. Visions are also not lacking. The visions must develop and change during the struggle for equality and justice, otherwise they will become gulags. The question was, and is, how much more bloodshed, suffering and disasters will be needed until the Jewish regime of discrimination and separation, which we have created here over the past 64 years, crumbles.
The Palestinians provided us, the Israelis, a ladder that would have saved us the kind of suffering and loss that we have caused them. A ladder that we could have climbed to a historic rung where we could have been accepted in the region as neighbors who also have roots in this place and rights not only as aggressive invaders. But successive Israeli governments, with the backing of their voters, have knocked the ladder over. They knew only too well why they must thwart the two-state solution (in its original, pre-1967 borders format ). It would have led to different ways of living together and sharing the land. But the basic logic of these ways of life requires giving up Jewish hegemony and superiority.
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/04/amira-hass-explains-why-israels-u-s-model-of-ethnic-cleansing-failed-and-why-jewish-regime-will-crumble.html
She prefers not to live among Jews, which makes her pretty bigoted.
http://rabble.ca/news/2011/10/revulsion-repression-conversation-amira-hass
"To tell you the truth I cannot see myself living in a purely Jewish environment. I will not be able to move back to an Israel if I had to, and to live in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem.... I told my Palestinian friends, who are Israeli citizens, okay if I am kicked out of Ramallah, I will go and live in a Palestinian neighborhood, in Israel itself."
Neither Tel Aviv or Jerusalem are purely Jewish. There are lots of Jews there, however, like Amos Oz and David Grossman in Jerusalem. Tel Aviv is an extremely liberal city.
I'm sure you'll deny the bigotry. Any settler saying the same thing, that they wouldn't want to live among Palestinians, but instead Jews, is a rightwing bigot in your view. Not so for Hass.
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I hope that this hard line thinking is dying like the Republican Party here at home.
bravenak
Nov 2013
#107
That's how I saw it too, through the American eye. I think they're trying to put them on the
bravenak
Nov 2013
#113
in a trial that was the equivelent of a civil rights worker in the south in 1962
azurnoir
Nov 2013
#14
Do you believe every court ruling is fact? Or only ones you agree with? n/t
Violet_Crumble
Nov 2013
#27
no you can not that was removed months ago because people started running 'vanity' threads sbout it
azurnoir
Nov 2013
#52
Was she allowed to prove her case by having her witnesses? If not, kangaroo court it is.
bravenak
Nov 2013
#37
Yeah, right. I would be convinced if I saw the video,and it did not show anything untoward occurring
bravenak
Nov 2013
#139
she said a bunch of Hebron settlers kicked the corpse of a Palestinian during the second Intifada
azurnoir
Nov 2013
#67
They care not for justice, equality, diplomacy or much else I associate with the left.
bravenak
Nov 2013
#129
Good that bibi didn't get his war - but he's still strutting about like a pouter pigeon.
delrem
Nov 2013
#130
I like Kerry in this position a lot better. Clinton was okay, but Kerry doesn't put up with Bibi's
bravenak
Nov 2013
#131
Yeah, she was one of the first people I read things about the conflict from...
Violet_Crumble
Nov 2013
#26
Produce with a link what you believe demonstrates this poster cheered on rock throwing to
Jefferson23
Nov 2013
#91
Bravenak can tell you herself that she agreed with Hass' article about stone-throwing....
shira
Nov 2013
#92
NO, I asked you, you're the one making tha accusations..so produce the link
Jefferson23
Nov 2013
#93
That you decided not to back up your claims speaks volumes about your intentions
Jefferson23
Nov 2013
#95
The responsibility belongs to you to produce what you believe demonstrates your claim
Jefferson23
Nov 2013
#97
Her support for rock-throwing @ civilians is all over that thread. Don't be lazy...
shira
Nov 2013
#98
This is about YOUR opinion, that you believe you possess credibility on the I/P subject, well
Jefferson23
Nov 2013
#99
I already answered you, stop repeating yourself. Your claims against bravenak are false.
Jefferson23
Nov 2013
#115
You made a lot of contradictory statements. It's why I kept pressing for consistency...
shira
Nov 2013
#102
I know u said yr against children getting hurt, but children have died due to stone-throwing...
shira
Nov 2013
#116
It'd not my job to condemn every single act of violence committed by whomever you choose
bravenak
Nov 2013
#117
I have no idea what's going on in any of your videos. They're clips and in a language I don't speak
bravenak
Nov 2013
#119
How any soldier can sleep at night after conducting themselves this way is beyond me.
Jefferson23
Nov 2013
#28
That's like saying more southern slaveowners should have stopped owning slaves
Scootaloo
Nov 2013
#78
When the objective is to inject fear in a child of 5 years old, you're a participant
Jefferson23
Nov 2013
#82