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In reply to the discussion: The Truth about Fast & Furious [View all]spin
(17,493 posts)56. I find it interesting that CBS news has also done a series of reports on Fast and Furious ...
and unlike the Fortune article these reports do not discount the possibility of an actual scandal.
If only Fox News and the NRA were publishing propaganda about the gun running scandal, I might have a different view but I always thought CBS news was a reliable source of information. It's all to easy to label this story as a "gun nut" fantasyn containing nothing but lies but it does seem to a possible basis in fact.
Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations
By Sharyl Attkisson December 7, 2011 1:44 PM
Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.
...emphasis added
In Fast and Furious, ATF secretly encouraged gun dealers to sell to suspected traffickers for Mexican drug cartels to go after the "big fish." But ATF whistleblowers told CBS News and Congress it was a dangerous practice called "gunwalking," and it put thousands of weapons on the street. Many were used in violent crimes in Mexico. Two were found at the murder scene of a U.S. Border Patrol agent.
ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or "long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-57338546-10391695/documents-atf-used-fast-and-furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations/
If you took the time to read through the Fortune article I suggest you read the primer from CBS news on the "Fast and Furious" incident. I will post a couple of excerpts.
A primer on the "Fast and Furious" scandal
June 26, 2012 10:54 PM
By Sharyl Attkisson Topics Law and Order
***snip***
What's the controversy over the Justice Department's Feb. 4, 2011 letter to Sen. Grassley?
In its earliest response to Sen. Grassley's questions about the gunwalking operation, the Justice Department sent a letter that contained inaccurate information. The letter, signed by Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich, stated that ATF never "knowingly allowed the sale of assault weapons to a straw purchaser who then transported them into Mexico." Ten months later, the Justice Department withdrew the letter acknowledging that it contained inaccuracies. In April 2012, Weich announced his intention to resign from the Justice Department to become dean of the University of Baltimore Law School. Documents subpoenaed by the House Oversight Committee, but not turned over, include Justice Department communications after the Feb. 4, 2011 letter leading up to the Dec. 2011 retraction of the inaccurate letter. Republicans in Congress want to see who-knew-when that the Feb. 4 assertion denying gunwalking was false, and why it took ten months for the administration's retraction.
What law enforcement agencies were involved in "Fast and Furious"?
Records show that in addition to ATF; Immigration and Customs (ICE) under the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), the Arizona US Attorney's office, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) played roles in Fast and Furious....emphasis added
Who is the highest-ranking official who has admitted knowing about gunwalking?
The head of the Justice Department's criminal division, Lanny Breuer, is the highest-ranking official who admits knowing that ATF had used the tactic of gunwalking early on. Breuer's deputy wrote him in April 2011 that in Wide Receiver, a case started under the Bush Administration. "ATF let a bunch of guns walk," and said it could be "embarrassing" to ATF. When those documents were made public on Oct. 31, 2011, Breuer issued a statement saying he didn't alert others in Justice Department leadership about the gunwalking, that he "regrets" not having done so, and that he likewise regretted not alerting leaders about the similarities between Wide Receiver, started in 2006, and Fast and Furious, started in 2009, at a time when the Justice Department's public position was that no gunwalking had ever occurred. Documents show two other justice officials mulled over gunwalking in Wide Receiver on Oct. 18, 2011 as they discussed the pros and cons of prosecuting the case. "It's a tricky case given the number of guns that have walked but is a significant set of prosecutions," wrote Jason Weinstein, Deputy Assistant Attorney General of the Criminal Division. Deputy Chief of the National Gang Unit James Trusty replied "I'm not sure how much grief we get for 'guns walking.' It may be more like, "Finally they're going after the people who sent guns down there."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-57461204-10391695/a-primer-on-the-fast-and-furious-scandal/
Sharyl Attkisson is the investigative reporter for CBS who has been behind the CBS stories on Fast and Furious and other gun walking schemes. Just who is Sharyl Attkisson?
Sharyl Attkisson
Sharyl Attkisson is a Washington-based CBS News Investigative Correspondent.
In June 2012, Attkisson was awarded the RTNDA Edward R. Murrow Award for Excellence in Investigative Reporting for the "Gunwalker: Fast and Furious" story. Attkisson received an Investigative Emmy Award in 2009 for "Outstanding Investigative Reporting of a Business News Story" for her exclusive investigations into TARP and the bank bailout. She received an Investigative Emmy Award in 2002 for "Outstanding Investigative Journalism" for her series of exclusive reports about mismanagement at the Red Cross.
She has received two Investigative Reporters and Editors (I.R.E.) Finalist awards: "Investigating TARP" in 2009 and "Dangerous Drugs" in 2000; and two Emmy nominations in 2011 for her investigations into Congressional travel and aid to Haiti earthquake victims. She was also part of the CBS News team that received RTNDA-Edward R. Murrow Awards in 2005 and 2008 for Overall Excellence.
Attkisson has been a Washington-based correspondent for CBS News since January 1995. She is one of the few journalists to have flown in a B-52 on a combat mission in Kosovo and in an F-15 fighter jet Combat Air Patrol flight.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18564_162-524782/sharyl-attkisson/
Sharyl Attkisson
Sharyl Attkisson (born in Florida) is an investigative correspondent in the Washington bureau for CBS News. She has also substituted as anchor for the CBS Evening News.
Career
From 1990 to 1993, Attkisson was an anchor for CNN. She left CNN in 1993,[1] moving to CBS, where she anchored the television news broadcast CBS News Up to the Minute and became an investigative correspondent based in Washington D.C. [2] She simultaneously hosted the PBS Health news magazine HealthWeek from 1997 to 2003. [3] She was also a key anchor for CBS space exploration coverage in 1993.[4] In 2002, Attkisson co-authored a college textbook titled Writing Right for Broadcast and Internet News .[5] She served as Capitol Hill correspondent for CBS in 2006.[6] In 2006, she was one of a small number of female anchors covering the 2006 midterms.[7]
Awards and nominations
In 2001, Attkisson received an Investigative Emmy Award nomination for "Firestone Tire Fiasco" from the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences.[8] In 2002, Attkisson also won an Emmy Award for her Investigative Journalism about the American Red Cross.[2] The award was presented in New York City on Sept. 10, 2002. [9] In 2003, Attkisson was nominated for an Outstanding Investigative Journalism Emmy Award for "Drugs, Money, and Safety"; prescription drugs and vaccines. In 2009, Attkisson won an Investigative Emmy Award for Business and Financial Reporting for her exclusive reports on TARP and the bank bailout. The award was presented on Dec. 7, at Fordham University's Lincoln Center Campus in New York City.[10] In 2010, Attkisson received an Emmy Award nomination for her investigations into members of Congress, and she also received a 2010 Emmy Award nomination for her investigation into waste of tax dollars.[11] In July 2011, Attkisson was nominated for an Emmy Award for her "Follow the Money" investigations into Congressional travel to the Copenhagen climate summit, and aid to Haiti earthquake victims.[12] In 2012, CBS News accepted an Investigative Reporting Award given to Attkisson's reporting on ATF's "Fast and Furious" gunwalker controversy. The award was from the conservative media watchdog group "Accuracy in Media" and was presented at the Conservative Political Action Conference.[13] In June 2012, Attkisson's investigative reporting for the "Gunwalker" story also won the CBS Evening News the Radio and Television News Directors Association's National Edward R. Murrow Award for Excellence in Video Investigative Reporting. The award will be presented Oct. 8, 2012 in New York City.[14]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharyl_Attkisson
I suggest that when an investigative reporter for a major news organization with the background and awards that Sharyl Attkisson has received focuses her attention on an incident such as "Fast and Furious" there might be not only smoke but fire.
This story is beginning to gain momentum and there does appear to be a steady drip of new information to keep it alive. Since the facts will not come out until after the election, I can't see any reason for the Republicans to focus on it. It detracts from their best issue which is the state of the economy and will only fire up the Republican base which feels Obama plans to instate another "assault weapons" ban. Those voters will show up at the polls to foolishly vote for Romney who is no friend of gun owners so there is little gain for the Republicans and indeed the issue might cause more Democrats who support Eric Holder to vote against Romney on election day. It appears to me that this issue is a net loss for Republicans. Perhaps that is why the Republican speaker of the House was reluctant to peruse the contempt ruling against Eric Holder.
One of the reasons that I voted for Obama is that I felt his administration would be far more transparent then previous administrations. Perhaps Obama has good reason to claim executive privilege but since at the worst (at this time) "Fast and Furious" appears to be a minor scandal that could have been resolved quickly with a just a little embarrassment it doesn't make sense that he would invoke this privilege.
I don't wish to compare "Fast and Furious" to the Watergate scandal but it is true that "Fast and Furious" not only involves the death of a border patrol agent it also may have caused several hundred deaths in Mexico. It's impossible to say but if the scandal does have legs and grows it might negatively impact the second Obama term if there is indeed a coverup.
I feel that as a Democrat we are fortunate to have the support of most of the mainstream media because had "Fast and Furious" been uncovered under a Republican Administration it would have received far more attention in the media. However the media can be fickle and may well value profit over values if it senses in the future that covering this story might increase their bottom line profits.
I also don't wish to view myself as a hypocrite. I would have been infuriated had this story broke under a Republican administration. I expect my party to have even higher standards than I do of Republicans. That's why I am a Democrat!
I will agree that this incident is being played for political gain by both Democrats and Republicans. Unfortunately unlike so many other political issues many people have died and families are suffering the consequences.
I hate to mention this but could there be a possibility of CIA involvement in this incident? Could they, once again, be playing games in foreign nations to support their friends? It's highly unlikely but I keep remembering Iran-Contra and many other incidents. While I have always loved conspiracy theories I also love to debunk them. Unfortunately some are factual.
As an American citizen and as a Democrat, I personally feel our citizens should know exactly what led to this fiasco called "Fast and Furious." The investigation should be through and detailed and it should also deal with similar programs during prior administrations. Let the chips fall where they may.
If democracy and freedom and the way our government conducts its policy are important to us we need to know how and why these poorly conceived gun running programs came to be. We have a major problem here as many deaths have occurred and we need to know how to prevent it from happening again in the future.
We hold ourselves up as a shining beacon to the world. If we wish to live up to that lofty ideal we have to hold ourselves accountable for our mistakes. At this time I feel an independent, nonpartisan investigation of this incident is warranted.
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So, suddenly Fortune magazine, Corporatist rag, is a reliable news source? Funny how that works.
DonP
Jun 2012
#2
LOL. The gunnies don't like it when actual reporters look into their conspiracy theories!
DanTex
Jun 2012
#4
Argument from authority is now acceptable if you agree with the authority?
friendly_iconoclast
Jul 2012
#81
Your understanding of journalism is on a par with your understanding of public safety.
Starboard Tack
Jun 2012
#35
Your understanding of public safety is on par with my cat's understanding of particle physics.
Clames
Jul 2012
#46
How about giving us a shout when FR says anything positive about Obama, ATF, SS, Medicaid, etc.
Hoyt
Jun 2012
#15
It's not "conditional ethics." It's "When even the wingdings can't buy the rightwing bullshit, the
MADem
Jun 2012
#33
It's pretty obvious to most. And it's being handled perfectly -- Obama is throwing it in face of
Hoyt
Jun 2012
#17
Don't have to mention it every time because I have you conditioned to think about the no-good NRA.
Hoyt
Jul 2012
#68
The OP seems to have found your questions inconvenient, as they have gone missing.
friendly_iconoclast
Jul 2012
#49
If you look up a few posts, you will see that Oneka highlighted this part of the passage in bold
DanTex
Jul 2012
#58
I think, rationally speaking, we have a very good idea why Holder said what he said. IT WAS TRUE.
TPaine7
Jul 2012
#69
I find it interesting that CBS news has also done a series of reports on Fast and Furious ...
spin
Jul 2012
#56
I don't feel that many gun owners would say that allowing firearms to end up in the hands ...
spin
Jul 2012
#64
*That* will be ignored, as it doesn't fit the meme being pushed in the OP.
friendly_iconoclast
Jul 2012
#77
But... but... but... Rhodes Scholar... climate change denial... gun bloggers... right wing
TPaine7
Jul 2012
#78
An opposing view from someone in the House oversight comittee ,long read, but informative.
Oneka
Aug 2012
#83
Your interlocutor relies on the argument from authority, and its flipside the genetic fallacy.
friendly_iconoclast
Aug 2012
#89
All the better reason for you to detail the factual errors in the linked *.pdf
friendly_iconoclast
Aug 2012
#92
Well, then- get busy fisking the document linked in post #83. Point out the errors.
friendly_iconoclast
Aug 2012
#95
This is hilarious, coming from the guy who didn't think that Darrell Issa authored of the...
DanTex
Aug 2012
#111
You should ask Cummings that question. And ask the US attorneys about the documents and the trials.
DanTex
Aug 2012
#123
You don't address the substance of what's said, but complain about the source? Genetic fallacy...
friendly_iconoclast
Aug 2012
#101
Theme and variation on "Eban good, Issa bad, those that question it are fools. Take my word on it".
friendly_iconoclast
Aug 2012
#106
LOL. You're failing! You won't make the 8th grade team if you can't do better than that!
DanTex
Aug 2012
#107
Not my job. You claim "Issa's" work is bogus, so demonstrate the bogosity.
friendly_iconoclast
Aug 2012
#110
Not so; I said the defense of her work by citations of her credentials is...
friendly_iconoclast
Aug 2012
#115
Without a dump of those "2,000 pages of confidential ATF documents", Eban is cherry-picking.
friendly_iconoclast
Aug 2012
#129
