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intaglio

(8,170 posts)
47. Nice selection bias
Tue Dec 10, 2013, 03:24 AM
Dec 2013

But first I'll deal with your general point;

Unquestioning obedience to the hierarchy means precisely that, it means that there are no courts of appeal except God. Police, doctors even the NSA can, at some point, be called to account and can be questioned by people who can still 'benefit' from those services; question the Pope or your minister and you can be refused the supposed benefits of your faith - because obedience to authority is a part of faith. If you video a minister being a racist then the chances are that nothing will happen within the church; do so for any other group you named and there are consequences within the group as well as the legal consequences.

Now to the selection bias in the example you chose; it was a wonderful result for your family but look at the counter example, the woman for whom the medical opinion is correct. The doctor removes her from his list but he cannot have her refused medical treatment he can only refuse to take responsibility for the consequences of her actions. The person making the choice to continue is not forced to seek help from homeopaths and acupuncturists, she will receive medical care until her death. It is the cases where the mother and/or child dies that you do not hear about because the result is not wonderful and inspiring but tragic.

To your point about campaigns in the wider world, it is true that some churches are not anti-marijuana but several are (start looking at the churches who support alcohol prohibition); the difficulty is I am not talking about the wider world, I am talking about the failings of churches within the Church. It is these congregations, such as the abhorrent "Prosperity Gospel", that need to be preached into insignificance; the churches that support Daniel and Debbie Pearl must be anathematised until they admit that child abuse is not a valid parenting tactic; it is churches that must campaign to have the ACE boarding schools brought back into State oversight because it was other churches that got these torture chambers a pass.

Just saying "Oh, it's part of a wider problem," is to ask the State to take part in the policing of faith and abrogates the responsibility of the Liberal Church to speak out.

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In my opinion, the source of this is SheilaT Dec 2013 #1
well said. nt DesertFlower Dec 2013 #2
If all there was to Catholicism was opposition to contraception, pedophilia and so on Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2013 #3
Please don't take this as argumentative, since I SheilaT Dec 2013 #4
I don't want to sound argumentative either Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2013 #8
For me, the complete separation of the church hierarchy from the laity SheilaT Dec 2013 #13
I have tried to steer clear of singling out Catholicism intaglio Dec 2013 #7
I have addressed that point previously on DU Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2013 #9
Yes, you have addressed the pedophillia issue - on DU intaglio Dec 2013 #10
I used to know a bishop fairly well for many years Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2013 #14
The false notion that Donohue is a lone voice skepticscott Dec 2013 #16
The Catholic League CLAIMS to have over 200K members. Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2013 #25
Well, let's see skepticscott Dec 2013 #36
No, I don't have any evidence that the Catholic League numbers are inflated Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2013 #48
Gee, did anyone say that Bill Donohue was a "typical" Catholic leader? skepticscott Dec 2013 #52
OK, "typical" was the wrong word Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2013 #53
You have actually had contact with the hierarchy intaglio Dec 2013 #19
What part of "[Bishop Kaffer and I] discussed many of my concerns about the Church" Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2013 #23
What I have said is that past virtues do not fight present evils intaglio Dec 2013 #24
Why do you think that my activism is not ongoing? Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2013 #26
Perhaps you had not noticed, but there is limited time in any day to do things, and to be effective struggle4progress Dec 2013 #5
I am not saying everyone else is blameless intaglio Dec 2013 #6
When I returned to the church, decades ago, as I became more politically active, struggle4progress Dec 2013 #11
You may not learn anything from such sermons intaglio Dec 2013 #12
I, at least, know something about who attends my small church, while you do not struggle4progress Dec 2013 #33
All the moderate and left-wing Christians on this board seem unable to comprehend cbayer Dec 2013 #15
I did not say they did not condemn it on this board intaglio Dec 2013 #17
Actually you said they couldn't even comprehend it, but I won't nitpick. cbayer Dec 2013 #28
That is a broad brush your painting with. hrmjustin Dec 2013 #18
What an I painting with a broad brush? intaglio Dec 2013 #20
or maybe they never get ccoverage. hrmjustin Dec 2013 #21
So start publicising them intaglio Dec 2013 #22
Far too many people are willing to excuse anything that is done in the name of their religion. onpatrol98 Dec 2013 #27
Absolutely true. cbayer Dec 2013 #29
Made far worse when the tribe believes its leaders have a connection to the divine... trotsky Dec 2013 #32
Not me. I treat my clergy like they sre any other person. hrmjustin Dec 2013 #35
Good for you. n/t trotsky Dec 2013 #37
Good on you, Justin, but in many faiths the members just don't have that option. dimbear Dec 2013 #51
But, with the possible exception of political parties, intaglio Dec 2013 #30
Sure each group does... onpatrol98 Dec 2013 #31
But only religion has the feature of claiming to represent divine authority. trotsky Dec 2013 #34
Poppy Cock onpatrol98 Dec 2013 #38
Poppycock origin (from the Dutch): cbayer Dec 2013 #39
What's your opinion, cbayer? trotsky Dec 2013 #41
I had no idea... onpatrol98 Dec 2013 #42
Sure, atheists reject the concept of divine authority. trotsky Dec 2013 #40
Ahh...but wait... onpatrol98 Dec 2013 #43
Is this truly a serious question? skepticscott Dec 2013 #45
If you don't believe in God, why should you care if your next door neighbor does. onpatrol98 Dec 2013 #46
To answer your question: trotsky Dec 2013 #49
Our friend has conspicuously ignored the same point twice skepticscott Dec 2013 #50
Well, he's already received the coveted "Great post!" award, trotsky Dec 2013 #54
Any intelligent person should be aggravated skepticscott Dec 2013 #44
Nice selection bias intaglio Dec 2013 #47
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