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Jim__

(14,077 posts)
93. The device only exists *NOW* if people are willing to trade color blindness for legal blindness.
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 01:58 PM
Feb 2014

Last edited Fri Feb 7, 2014, 02:35 PM - Edit history (1)

The ability to perceive color is NOT DEPENDENT UPON PRECISE SPATIAL CONTROL of the signal/data interpretation. If you look very carefully at my posts, you'll find I made no claims regarding that at all, and your point is meaningless, because since I made no such claim beyond PERCEPTION OF COLOR, it doesn't falsify anything I said at all. Bravo.


OK. If you want to pick nits, here is your original claim:

Colorblind people are capable of discovering light frequencies.


The device you're citing is for blind people, people who remain legally blind after the device is implanted.

From wikipedia:

In North America and most of Europe, legal blindness is defined as visual acuity (vision) of 20/200 (6/60) or less in the better eye with best correction possible.


And, from the cited article:

"While high-fidelity color vision is a long way off, some patients with retinal prostheses have so far been able to read large fonts (with visual acuities on the order of 20/1000) and complete daily tasks in ways that they could not before treatment,” postdoctoral scholar Dr. James Loudin told Photonics Spectra. The research team hopes to achieve visual acuity better than 20/200 and is focusing its efforts on assessing the visual acuity and contrast sensitivity in vivo, said Dr. Daniel Palanker, an associate professor of ophthalmology at Stanford.


Seidensticker's examples remain untouched.

This is becoming tedious. If you can raise an actual issue in the future, I'll respond. Going round and round in circles arguing that a device that would legally blind a currently legally sighted color blind person is some resolution to color blindness is ridiculous.
The writer edhopper Feb 2014 #1
He is an MIT grad trained in computers. rug Feb 2014 #4
I reread it edhopper Feb 2014 #6
His blog is focused on rebutting Christian apologetics. rug Feb 2014 #7
Thanks edhopper Feb 2014 #10
He doesn't really address why the universe is comprehensible. Jim__ Feb 2014 #2
No he doesn't. rug Feb 2014 #3
Colorblind people are capable of discovering light frequencies. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #12
Got it in one WovenGems Feb 2014 #16
So, do you believe all will be comprehended by humans? rug Feb 2014 #20
Yep WovenGems Feb 2014 #24
That's a very hopeful belief. rug Feb 2014 #32
Touché! Jim__ Feb 2014 #52
Potentially. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #40
Can they see color? rug Feb 2014 #19
That's not the issue, we can't see the entire electromagnetic spectrum, only a small part of it... Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #31
So, do you also believe all will be comprehended by humans? rug Feb 2014 #33
Depends on what you mean by "comprehended"... Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #34
Gravity? n/t eomer Feb 2014 #35
Is a well understood phenomenon, we have been able to measure its strength... Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #36
That's a pretty low bar. eomer Feb 2014 #37
If you are talking about dark matter, I did say there are unknowns, that doesn't mean its.. Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #38
I don't think we've figured out what causes gravity, have we? eomer Feb 2014 #42
But if a mechanism for gravity was discovered edhopper Feb 2014 #44
I think we agree, except that I would emphasize that we comprehend "up to a point". eomer Feb 2014 #45
I am referring to the OP where it says edhopper Feb 2014 #46
Fair enough, but I think we're inherently incapable of comprehending. eomer Feb 2014 #47
As you said edhopper Feb 2014 #49
Gravity is a curvature of spacetime caused by the presence of mass in the Universe... Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #55
If you ask me that explanation doesn't go very far, but what do I know. eomer Feb 2014 #57
because you are thinking 3 dimensionally edhopper Feb 2014 #58
I see, thanks. But I don't think top relativity scientists think they've explained gravity. eomer Feb 2014 #59
So because you don't understand it, no one does? Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #60
No, that's the opposite of what I said. eomer Feb 2014 #65
Remains a mystery. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #70
Not completely edhopper Feb 2014 #62
We disagree, that's cool. eomer Feb 2014 #66
I don't know if we will be able to explain everything edhopper Feb 2014 #69
Yes, I do catch your drift. That's a great distinction. eomer Feb 2014 #73
I can't see xrays. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #39
Like visible light, you understand them only up to a point. eomer Feb 2014 #43
I disagree with your use of 'comprehend'. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #53
That's cool, not meaning to insist on that particular definition. eomer Feb 2014 #54
Can you give an example of what we don't understand about the... Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #61
Was thinking, from memory, that the double-slit experiment wasn't fully explained. eomer Feb 2014 #64
But is that something we can never understand? You are placing limits, artificial ones at that... Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #75
This message was self-deleted by its author Jim__ Feb 2014 #77
I think the distinction that edhopper made is really helpful. eomer Feb 2014 #79
This message was self-deleted by its author AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #41
He wasn't making a point about differentiating light frequencies. Jim__ Feb 2014 #67
It isn't, true, but that is not required to AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #68
You can give a person a meter that tells him a particular object is reflecting light ... Jim__ Feb 2014 #71
Butterflies can see more colors than we can, by the nature of their eyes. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #72
My example was of a conversation contrasting 2 colors. You didn't address the conversation at all. Jim__ Feb 2014 #74
But we CAN comprehend the conversation. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #80
You're confusing the reaction of sensory receptors with perception. Jim__ Feb 2014 #81
Not at all, I'm familiar with the tests. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #82
You say, "Not at all," but do you understand that knowing the information that goes into a ... Jim__ Feb 2014 #84
No, no no. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #86
Yes, yes, yes. Jim__ Feb 2014 #87
And that is why I called the claim *silly limiting drivel*. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #88
You can call it anything you want, what you're doing is demonstrating your ignorance. Jim__ Feb 2014 #89
He didn't just say 'perceive' he also said 'let alone understand'. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #90
Once again, either you don't understand or you're pretending not to understand. Jim__ Feb 2014 #91
There are humans with these implants in, right now. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #92
The device only exists *NOW* if people are willing to trade color blindness for legal blindness. Jim__ Feb 2014 #93
Good grief. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #94
I disagree edhopper Feb 2014 #5
The fact that you don't "see" it, is sort of the point he's making. Jim__ Feb 2014 #8
That is an interesting point edhopper Feb 2014 #9
No doubt our small brains cannot entirely comprehend the full, complex universe Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #14
The article is fairly straight forward, yet you seem confused. Jim__ Feb 2014 #18
The classic high-theological style, equivocates between belief and unbelief Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #21
There may well be a secret to understanding high theology, however ... Jim__ Feb 2014 #26
But one Christian DID apparently read it as SUPPORTING classic religion. Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #27
Yes, and that claim was answered in plain English. Jim__ Feb 2014 #29
Happy to hear that any initial, possible ambiguity, was subsequently disambiguated. Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #30
Yet there are indications that we very well can. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #83
See post #84. Jim__ Feb 2014 #85
"These particular skills couldn’t have been selected by evolution." AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #11
"Seidensticker" is a techie, moonlighting in religion; his stuff seems pretty amateurish and quirky Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #13
The quote from Bill O'Reilly at the end is what is truly incomprehensible Fortinbras Armstrong Feb 2014 #15
That wasn't his point with that question. Goblinmonger Feb 2014 #17
Mostly the moon is responsible for the tides; it's closer. Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #22
He's not that stupid. Goblinmonger Feb 2014 #23
G: possibly you are partially right Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #48
I don't know a poem that is that literally Goblinmonger Feb 2014 #50
We report, you decide. Jim__ Feb 2014 #25
He defends it later; after having had time to second guess himself...? Brettongarcia Feb 2014 #28
Our brains can comprehend the Universe because our brains are part of the Universe. tridim Feb 2014 #51
So true. n/t WovenGems Feb 2014 #56
My dog is part of the universe. Jim__ Feb 2014 #63
True, but dogs also can't design or build computers and other mental tools... Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #76
My response was to post #51. It had to do with what is entailed by being part of the universe. Jim__ Feb 2014 #78
I would say that a universe conducive to life evolving within it would have to be comprehensible... Humanist_Activist Feb 2014 #95
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