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Religion
In reply to the discussion: Religious Belief = Mental Illness: A More Venomous Response [View all]Brettongarcia
(2,262 posts)262. Seems possible. I emphasize the unexpected scientific side in religion.
If you are a religious person who practices in a science-based profession, you are already halfway there.
Atheists might find it almost acceptable too, oddly. If they like science.
Not "creation science"; not Christian Science; not Scientology. I think there's a real advocacy of real, actual science in the Bible.
Dan. 1.4-15 King James Edition, is an important example.
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Which is pretty ironic, considering he talks to himself so much of the time
Starboard Tack
Mar 2014
#368
And one does not have to be a mental health professional to recognize
Fortinbras Armstrong
Mar 2014
#82
Delusions can be religious in nature, but it does not follow that all religious-ness is delusional.
yodermon
Mar 2014
#298
It's hard to believe that in the 21st century people use mental illness as a perjorative.
Jim__
Mar 2014
#3
Did I or did I not say very clearly that I was NOT talking about "diagnosing" people?
skepticscott
Mar 2014
#76
I understand. I do the same thing. But if you wish to speak as a professional?
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#51
The Bible itself often warned about false things in religion; including "delusions"
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#40
So what? That is not the same thing as calling religious people delusional in general.
cbayer
Mar 2014
#48
"False Prophets" claimed to speak for God. Can we criticize their religion? The Bible told us to.
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#50
My mistake. My scholarly citations on psych bad things in religion, weren't censored. They are here:
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#61
This link just goes to an OP, not to your citations. Who is our resident psychologist 99?
cbayer
Mar 2014
#63
I have long held that selective observation that feeds a bias makes the observer appear ridiculous.
rug
Mar 2014
#125
I would agree that the minds of believers and non-believers function in different ways.
cbayer
Mar 2014
#11
Yes...as someone who has researched Twain's views on religion for nearly 20 years
deutsey
Mar 2014
#297
And we believers are equally justified in asking for evidence there is NOT a God
Fortinbras Armstrong
Mar 2014
#91
I know that you want to call me a liar, but your slanders are themselves lies.
Fortinbras Armstrong
Mar 2014
#180
Given the chance you disemble and distract you just don't have it in you to be
Leontius
Mar 2014
#392
If you define Santa Claus, the definition sets its limits and it disproves itself.
rug
Mar 2014
#143
And the Easter Bunny? Do you have an equally bullshit based explanation for that as well?
cbayer
Mar 2014
#172
Nearly all serious historians of Religion accept the Santa/Easter account that you seem to reject
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#210
Na. Scholars say "Eostre, or "Estre," (SP?), godess related to spring, may be origin of Easter.
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#226
Well, how about the apparent historical relation of Eastre to Christ? The Resurrection....
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#233
Well, the next step might be to link popular myths too, to these religious forms
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#236
Discovering links between our religion, and other religions, even myths, can be painfully ...
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#239
No, thanks. I don't believe any of that and have no interest in reading more about it.
cbayer
Mar 2014
#247
I believe in it as a metaphor: a "day" when suddenly things look different.
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#256
No they don't but you would know that if you knew anything about this subject.
Leontius
Mar 2014
#243
Local Greco-Roman and many other "rebirth" myths existed in the area, long before Paul
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#273
Cf. Ishtar. Which sounds and looks rather like a precursor to either Eostre - and/or Easter
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#318
No way is that blog reliable. But what would I know? My PhD is only in the study of culture
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#326
Referenced web site is not only source. Even it admits "eggs" and fertility symbols associated with
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#366
And linguistic "borrowing, " "cultural diffusion" from other cultures, never happens?
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#363
English has links to very ancient Indo-European and other languages; 2,000 years old and more
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#374
Today few people have experience in dozens of exotic languages to fully graph their interrelation
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#382
It's been widely asserted. Possibly there is some good scholarship in German; Germans were the
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#388
Ishtar + Eos = Eostre, Easter, Estrous.Eastern Vernal Equinox, eggs, fertility,rebirth in the spring
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#395
I suggest you stop consulting web sites, and consult my scholarly bibliographies
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#397
I've said I have a PhD in Culture Studies. One credential (given without ID to be sure)
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#400
I don't think I'd EQUATE Ishtar with Oestre. Rather it is all part of a far larger synthesis
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#411
Who is enormously self-important and smug, and feels adamant judgmentalism is scholarship?
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#412
Ishtar + Eos = Eostre or Easter is not quite etymology, or equation; but shorthand
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#432
The exsitence of a cult of Eostre/Ostara is still questioned as far as I know.
Leontius
Mar 2014
#371
The only source on "Eostre." From there, we look to other sources: mythography and linguistics
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#375
See, you started your time here saying that you wanted to voice our opinions about religion,
cbayer
Mar 2014
#171
So are you saying I am without the ability to critically think and are going to advise
cbayer
Mar 2014
#191
Yes, you are talking with a child who can't possibly figure out things you might say, lol.
cbayer
Mar 2014
#207
I wish people just argued what they think of religion without saying believers are mentally ill.
hrmjustin
Mar 2014
#10
It is quite possible for one to make arguments against religion, criticize religion, etc
cbayer
Mar 2014
#12
I agree. I know plenty of non-believers and only one or two can get that nasty about it.
hrmjustin
Mar 2014
#14
Yes DU really was my first real experience with people who were very anti-religion.
hrmjustin
Mar 2014
#17
What would be wrong with allowing choice of religion or no religion? Those who argue for or
Thinkingabout
Mar 2014
#18
Yes, my point, it sbould not be a part of either side to call the other names, question their
Thinkingabout
Mar 2014
#33
Your cited APA article begins noting negative professional psych evaluation of religion...
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#65
Whose narrative, who frames the question, the rules, is a major matter in my own field (s)
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#77
There may be however, a Culture Studies basis to suggest that Religion is largely dysfunctional.
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#95
The phrase "criminally insane" once had legal standing; it refers to criminals who are also ...
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#93
The Bible says that nearly everyone in the world is to be found deceived in its worship (Rev. 13.9).
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#99
Woops. Rev. 13.7-8. But how do you read that "ear" statement? What does it say?
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#102
This is part of the larger picture;"warring" adds to convincing with false arguments/delusions
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#110
I think you may be begining to understand this constant drivel for what it is.
Leontius
Mar 2014
#119
Here's the American Psychological Assn quote, linking religion to Mental Illness, AGAIN:
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#212
Let's look at the exact wording of the APA article a little more closely
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#216
Please give the exact quote where the article says "many psychologists" are condemning religion.
Jim__
Mar 2014
#217
The word in THIS article is "some" shrinks link religion to mental illness; other's say 1/4 of them.
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#218
First? This particular article does note SOME psychologists link religion to mental illness
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#221
I stated MANY times that THIS article is OVERALL, positive on religion. But...
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#225
Actually we're not entirely disagreeing; it's just where we put the EMPHASIS
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#235
Let's allow atheists insults; Psychology articles note bad things in Religion.
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#241
Note the article abstracts that I've included above; they note bad things in religion
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#248
I think everything I've offered is pretty straight, as far as I know; no rhetoric, no lies.
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#253
Which, also unsurprisingly, has nothing to do with the legal definition of insanity acquittee.
rug
Mar 2014
#264
Since the actual professionals in the field completely disagree with your definition
cbayer
Mar 2014
#90
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of mental disorders? Let's look at what a standard survey says:
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#215
If beliefs cause a nation to attack and kill its neighbors, couldn't they be a "delusion"?
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#278
Here's a quote from a Psychiatric Journal, saying whole religious groups can be delusional
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#282
Recent data cited here suggests spiritual people experience 3 x more depression in UK
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#377
My field, Cultural Studies, regards itself as a paradigm shift, generating new hypotheses
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#389
Well with that attitude it's a complete mystery why you are having difficulty communicating.
trotsky
Mar 2014
#211
Some now suggest elements of even "spiritual" liberal religion correlate to disorders in UK
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#220
Congratulations. You've progressed from calling DUers deluded to calling DUers hypocrites.
rug
Mar 2014
#315
TM99: you've misdefined "consensus." Worse, you are using it, using herd rule, as a bludgeon
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#276
Here, one journal suggests that a whole Religion, say, can be "delusional"
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#281
This nuanced article entertains many possibities - including religion as pathology
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#288
What if MOST of Psych doesn't see religion as pathology; significant PARTS of it do
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#319
The author is with the UCLA med school; his article in the Journal of Psychiatric Practice
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#323
You may disagree, but I think you are out of line to question this member's credibility.
cbayer
Mar 2014
#346
No callout; though if you'd like to informally cite your credentials,without specific ID, feel free.
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#367
Nothing spelled out in your post contradicts my point.I'll check links later. Agreeing on a "lot"?
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#376
Homosexuality was once considered a mental illness, but that was abandoned a long time ago.
cbayer
Mar 2014
#52
Looks like we are all mostly amateurs here in Psych; including the author. So....
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#59
And her point is exactly that - if you do not have the education, training and experience in the
cbayer
Mar 2014
#60
I hope this isn't a continuation of your attempt to make delusion and mental illness a synonym.
AtheistCrusader
Mar 2014
#96
Oh, its' not. I long ago recognized that some people use the term delusion very loosely
cbayer
Mar 2014
#101
If you are going to use psychiatric terms in a way that denotes psychiatric illness,
cbayer
Mar 2014
#107
Yes, that's right, mike. Religionists are just like people with brain tumors or diabetes.
cbayer
Mar 2014
#112
The major religious texts claimed visions, voices. The Church claims them. Mentally ill people too.
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#334
Like I said, I don't think liberal, modern christians embrace voices and visions.
cbayer
Mar 2014
#341
I think your pronouncements of what liberal, modern Christians do or do not believe...
trotsky
Mar 2014
#344
Interesting discussion, some of it beyond my educational pay grade, but suffice it to say
pinto
Mar 2014
#100
We are now moving beyond saying religious people are psychiatrically ill to saying
cbayer
Mar 2014
#113
I agree with you completely that humans are hard-wired for religious delusions....
mike_c
Mar 2014
#152
well at least she (inadvertently) indicated that "mentally ill" and "delusional" are not the same.
Warren Stupidity
Mar 2014
#198
Well, it's good to know that we are focusing on the real problem - rude atheists.
trotsky
Mar 2014
#176
Yeah, and what if I told you I talk to an imaginary pink elephant many times a day?
Vashta Nerada
Mar 2014
#295
Yes, anything that is explicable by culture alone is not a mental illness
Distant Quasar
Mar 2014
#353
IMO, a "religious belief" is a personal notion, i.e. an assumed, subjective opinion and as such,
ladjf
Mar 2014
#331
It isn't mental illness. It may be intellectual lazines or deep-seeded insecurity issues
BlueStreak
Mar 2014
#352
Using "mentally ill" as a pejorative also exploits the stigma of mental illness
Distant Quasar
Mar 2014
#354
There'a another view above though: cf. the "criminally insane" were once held responsible, culpable
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#361
CONCLUSION: "All" religion CAN be a "delusion" (Pierre, Jour. Psych. Prac., 2001).
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#394
Much of the Internet is just a play field for verbal agression by people who want to be bullies
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#409
"Raising rational criticisms will probably be far more productive than childish name-calling."
Sarah Ibarruri
Mar 2014
#416
"Rational criticism has been fairly successful in keeping creationism out of the science classroom"
Sarah Ibarruri
Mar 2014
#421
LOL! Right. People who are utterly illogical listened to logic. Right. nt
Sarah Ibarruri
Mar 2014
#426
So, people who are ignorant and illogical were simply swooning at logic? lol Not. nt
Sarah Ibarruri
Mar 2014
#428
I'm saying that if it's got laws that reflect illiteracy, it's got a preponderance of illiterates.nt
Sarah Ibarruri
Mar 2014
#430
I think Creationists are a slew of illiterates. Having debates with them is pointless. nt
Sarah Ibarruri
Mar 2014
#434
Here's another psychological article noting "delusion" in religion. Causing murders:
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#438
You suggest that religious murders are based on psychological illness; but psychologists themselves
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#445
Lol. Ok, let's put all psychiatric patients who have any kind of religious symptoms in camps
cbayer
Mar 2014
#461
In addition to addressing delusions, analysis would focus on deeper issues that motivated them
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#463
The secret to the Bible is that its language is open to two readings: one is negative about holy men
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#441
The professional article just quoted here does not assign causal priority to mental illness
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#459
Yes - it's totally insane to post about religion in the religion forum of DU.
el_bryanto
Mar 2014
#457