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Religion
In reply to the discussion: Religious Belief = Mental Illness: A More Venomous Response [View all]Brettongarcia
(2,262 posts)361. There'a another view above though: cf. the "criminally insane" were once held responsible, culpable
For their bad and even criminal misbehavior.
In this case, there is a continued stigma attached to at least, misbehavior in the mentally ill that would traditionally have been considered criminal, and culpable.
Religious zealots who are mentally ill, might still be criticized if they say, murder their children. As many have in recent DU citations.
A VERY recent case from just two days ago? See the dramatic video in yesterday's newsmedia; where a woman drives her van, loaded with her children, into the sea. Later reports say she was talking about seeing Jesus, and escaping "demons."
The children were crying "Our mom is trying to kill us." http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/our-mom-trying-kill-us-hero-recounts-ocean-rescue-n44731
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Which is pretty ironic, considering he talks to himself so much of the time
Starboard Tack
Mar 2014
#368
And one does not have to be a mental health professional to recognize
Fortinbras Armstrong
Mar 2014
#82
Delusions can be religious in nature, but it does not follow that all religious-ness is delusional.
yodermon
Mar 2014
#298
It's hard to believe that in the 21st century people use mental illness as a perjorative.
Jim__
Mar 2014
#3
Did I or did I not say very clearly that I was NOT talking about "diagnosing" people?
skepticscott
Mar 2014
#76
I understand. I do the same thing. But if you wish to speak as a professional?
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#51
The Bible itself often warned about false things in religion; including "delusions"
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#40
So what? That is not the same thing as calling religious people delusional in general.
cbayer
Mar 2014
#48
"False Prophets" claimed to speak for God. Can we criticize their religion? The Bible told us to.
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#50
My mistake. My scholarly citations on psych bad things in religion, weren't censored. They are here:
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#61
This link just goes to an OP, not to your citations. Who is our resident psychologist 99?
cbayer
Mar 2014
#63
I have long held that selective observation that feeds a bias makes the observer appear ridiculous.
rug
Mar 2014
#125
I would agree that the minds of believers and non-believers function in different ways.
cbayer
Mar 2014
#11
Yes...as someone who has researched Twain's views on religion for nearly 20 years
deutsey
Mar 2014
#297
And we believers are equally justified in asking for evidence there is NOT a God
Fortinbras Armstrong
Mar 2014
#91
I know that you want to call me a liar, but your slanders are themselves lies.
Fortinbras Armstrong
Mar 2014
#180
Given the chance you disemble and distract you just don't have it in you to be
Leontius
Mar 2014
#392
If you define Santa Claus, the definition sets its limits and it disproves itself.
rug
Mar 2014
#143
And the Easter Bunny? Do you have an equally bullshit based explanation for that as well?
cbayer
Mar 2014
#172
Nearly all serious historians of Religion accept the Santa/Easter account that you seem to reject
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#210
Na. Scholars say "Eostre, or "Estre," (SP?), godess related to spring, may be origin of Easter.
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#226
Well, how about the apparent historical relation of Eastre to Christ? The Resurrection....
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#233
Well, the next step might be to link popular myths too, to these religious forms
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#236
Discovering links between our religion, and other religions, even myths, can be painfully ...
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#239
No, thanks. I don't believe any of that and have no interest in reading more about it.
cbayer
Mar 2014
#247
I believe in it as a metaphor: a "day" when suddenly things look different.
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#256
No they don't but you would know that if you knew anything about this subject.
Leontius
Mar 2014
#243
Local Greco-Roman and many other "rebirth" myths existed in the area, long before Paul
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#273
Cf. Ishtar. Which sounds and looks rather like a precursor to either Eostre - and/or Easter
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#318
No way is that blog reliable. But what would I know? My PhD is only in the study of culture
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#326
Referenced web site is not only source. Even it admits "eggs" and fertility symbols associated with
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#366
And linguistic "borrowing, " "cultural diffusion" from other cultures, never happens?
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#363
English has links to very ancient Indo-European and other languages; 2,000 years old and more
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#374
Today few people have experience in dozens of exotic languages to fully graph their interrelation
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#382
It's been widely asserted. Possibly there is some good scholarship in German; Germans were the
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#388
Ishtar + Eos = Eostre, Easter, Estrous.Eastern Vernal Equinox, eggs, fertility,rebirth in the spring
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#395
I suggest you stop consulting web sites, and consult my scholarly bibliographies
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#397
I've said I have a PhD in Culture Studies. One credential (given without ID to be sure)
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#400
I don't think I'd EQUATE Ishtar with Oestre. Rather it is all part of a far larger synthesis
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#411
Who is enormously self-important and smug, and feels adamant judgmentalism is scholarship?
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#412
Ishtar + Eos = Eostre or Easter is not quite etymology, or equation; but shorthand
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#432
The exsitence of a cult of Eostre/Ostara is still questioned as far as I know.
Leontius
Mar 2014
#371
The only source on "Eostre." From there, we look to other sources: mythography and linguistics
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#375
See, you started your time here saying that you wanted to voice our opinions about religion,
cbayer
Mar 2014
#171
So are you saying I am without the ability to critically think and are going to advise
cbayer
Mar 2014
#191
Yes, you are talking with a child who can't possibly figure out things you might say, lol.
cbayer
Mar 2014
#207
I wish people just argued what they think of religion without saying believers are mentally ill.
hrmjustin
Mar 2014
#10
It is quite possible for one to make arguments against religion, criticize religion, etc
cbayer
Mar 2014
#12
I agree. I know plenty of non-believers and only one or two can get that nasty about it.
hrmjustin
Mar 2014
#14
Yes DU really was my first real experience with people who were very anti-religion.
hrmjustin
Mar 2014
#17
What would be wrong with allowing choice of religion or no religion? Those who argue for or
Thinkingabout
Mar 2014
#18
Yes, my point, it sbould not be a part of either side to call the other names, question their
Thinkingabout
Mar 2014
#33
Your cited APA article begins noting negative professional psych evaluation of religion...
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#65
Whose narrative, who frames the question, the rules, is a major matter in my own field (s)
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#77
There may be however, a Culture Studies basis to suggest that Religion is largely dysfunctional.
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#95
The phrase "criminally insane" once had legal standing; it refers to criminals who are also ...
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#93
The Bible says that nearly everyone in the world is to be found deceived in its worship (Rev. 13.9).
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#99
Woops. Rev. 13.7-8. But how do you read that "ear" statement? What does it say?
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#102
This is part of the larger picture;"warring" adds to convincing with false arguments/delusions
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#110
I think you may be begining to understand this constant drivel for what it is.
Leontius
Mar 2014
#119
Here's the American Psychological Assn quote, linking religion to Mental Illness, AGAIN:
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#212
Let's look at the exact wording of the APA article a little more closely
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#216
Please give the exact quote where the article says "many psychologists" are condemning religion.
Jim__
Mar 2014
#217
The word in THIS article is "some" shrinks link religion to mental illness; other's say 1/4 of them.
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#218
First? This particular article does note SOME psychologists link religion to mental illness
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#221
I stated MANY times that THIS article is OVERALL, positive on religion. But...
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#225
Actually we're not entirely disagreeing; it's just where we put the EMPHASIS
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#235
Let's allow atheists insults; Psychology articles note bad things in Religion.
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#241
Note the article abstracts that I've included above; they note bad things in religion
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#248
I think everything I've offered is pretty straight, as far as I know; no rhetoric, no lies.
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#253
Which, also unsurprisingly, has nothing to do with the legal definition of insanity acquittee.
rug
Mar 2014
#264
Since the actual professionals in the field completely disagree with your definition
cbayer
Mar 2014
#90
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of mental disorders? Let's look at what a standard survey says:
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#215
If beliefs cause a nation to attack and kill its neighbors, couldn't they be a "delusion"?
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#278
Here's a quote from a Psychiatric Journal, saying whole religious groups can be delusional
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#282
Recent data cited here suggests spiritual people experience 3 x more depression in UK
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#377
My field, Cultural Studies, regards itself as a paradigm shift, generating new hypotheses
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#389
Well with that attitude it's a complete mystery why you are having difficulty communicating.
trotsky
Mar 2014
#211
Some now suggest elements of even "spiritual" liberal religion correlate to disorders in UK
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#220
Congratulations. You've progressed from calling DUers deluded to calling DUers hypocrites.
rug
Mar 2014
#315
TM99: you've misdefined "consensus." Worse, you are using it, using herd rule, as a bludgeon
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#276
Here, one journal suggests that a whole Religion, say, can be "delusional"
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#281
This nuanced article entertains many possibities - including religion as pathology
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#288
What if MOST of Psych doesn't see religion as pathology; significant PARTS of it do
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#319
The author is with the UCLA med school; his article in the Journal of Psychiatric Practice
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#323
You may disagree, but I think you are out of line to question this member's credibility.
cbayer
Mar 2014
#346
No callout; though if you'd like to informally cite your credentials,without specific ID, feel free.
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#367
Nothing spelled out in your post contradicts my point.I'll check links later. Agreeing on a "lot"?
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#376
Homosexuality was once considered a mental illness, but that was abandoned a long time ago.
cbayer
Mar 2014
#52
Looks like we are all mostly amateurs here in Psych; including the author. So....
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#59
And her point is exactly that - if you do not have the education, training and experience in the
cbayer
Mar 2014
#60
I hope this isn't a continuation of your attempt to make delusion and mental illness a synonym.
AtheistCrusader
Mar 2014
#96
Oh, its' not. I long ago recognized that some people use the term delusion very loosely
cbayer
Mar 2014
#101
If you are going to use psychiatric terms in a way that denotes psychiatric illness,
cbayer
Mar 2014
#107
Yes, that's right, mike. Religionists are just like people with brain tumors or diabetes.
cbayer
Mar 2014
#112
The major religious texts claimed visions, voices. The Church claims them. Mentally ill people too.
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#334
Like I said, I don't think liberal, modern christians embrace voices and visions.
cbayer
Mar 2014
#341
I think your pronouncements of what liberal, modern Christians do or do not believe...
trotsky
Mar 2014
#344
Interesting discussion, some of it beyond my educational pay grade, but suffice it to say
pinto
Mar 2014
#100
We are now moving beyond saying religious people are psychiatrically ill to saying
cbayer
Mar 2014
#113
I agree with you completely that humans are hard-wired for religious delusions....
mike_c
Mar 2014
#152
well at least she (inadvertently) indicated that "mentally ill" and "delusional" are not the same.
Warren Stupidity
Mar 2014
#198
Well, it's good to know that we are focusing on the real problem - rude atheists.
trotsky
Mar 2014
#176
Yeah, and what if I told you I talk to an imaginary pink elephant many times a day?
Vashta Nerada
Mar 2014
#295
Yes, anything that is explicable by culture alone is not a mental illness
Distant Quasar
Mar 2014
#353
IMO, a "religious belief" is a personal notion, i.e. an assumed, subjective opinion and as such,
ladjf
Mar 2014
#331
It isn't mental illness. It may be intellectual lazines or deep-seeded insecurity issues
BlueStreak
Mar 2014
#352
Using "mentally ill" as a pejorative also exploits the stigma of mental illness
Distant Quasar
Mar 2014
#354
There'a another view above though: cf. the "criminally insane" were once held responsible, culpable
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#361
CONCLUSION: "All" religion CAN be a "delusion" (Pierre, Jour. Psych. Prac., 2001).
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#394
Much of the Internet is just a play field for verbal agression by people who want to be bullies
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#409
"Raising rational criticisms will probably be far more productive than childish name-calling."
Sarah Ibarruri
Mar 2014
#416
"Rational criticism has been fairly successful in keeping creationism out of the science classroom"
Sarah Ibarruri
Mar 2014
#421
LOL! Right. People who are utterly illogical listened to logic. Right. nt
Sarah Ibarruri
Mar 2014
#426
So, people who are ignorant and illogical were simply swooning at logic? lol Not. nt
Sarah Ibarruri
Mar 2014
#428
I'm saying that if it's got laws that reflect illiteracy, it's got a preponderance of illiterates.nt
Sarah Ibarruri
Mar 2014
#430
I think Creationists are a slew of illiterates. Having debates with them is pointless. nt
Sarah Ibarruri
Mar 2014
#434
Here's another psychological article noting "delusion" in religion. Causing murders:
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#438
You suggest that religious murders are based on psychological illness; but psychologists themselves
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#445
Lol. Ok, let's put all psychiatric patients who have any kind of religious symptoms in camps
cbayer
Mar 2014
#461
In addition to addressing delusions, analysis would focus on deeper issues that motivated them
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#463
The secret to the Bible is that its language is open to two readings: one is negative about holy men
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#441
The professional article just quoted here does not assign causal priority to mental illness
Brettongarcia
Mar 2014
#459
Yes - it's totally insane to post about religion in the religion forum of DU.
el_bryanto
Mar 2014
#457