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Religion

In reply to the discussion: There was no Jesus [View all]

orthoclad

(4,021 posts)
27. The repetition of ancient themes in christian myth
Sun Feb 18, 2024, 03:36 PM
Feb 2024

The repetition of ancient themes in christian myth makes me doubt the historical factuality. The central image of Christianity is the cross or crucifix, the symbol of sacrifice by torture, used in an act of sacrificial atonement. Such sacrifices date to extreme antiquity.

Human sacrifice is an essential, founding myth of the Abrahamic religions. Abraham's son Isaac being spared by an angel at the last second sounds like a fictional device, softening the story. This act has obvious parallels to "God" (Jehovah, Yahweh) offering his son as sacrifice.

Atonement through sacrifice was a common ancient practice, often using animals (scapegoat), but sometimes people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoat

The new testament message of love and kindness, rebooting the violence and bloodiness of the old testament, has been interpreted by some as a rumor of Gautama Buddha's teachings (ca 500 BC) reaching the Mediterranean world.

Another ancient theme repeated in the bible is The Flood, which is also described in the Epic of Gilgamesh, dating to 2100 BC.

To my thinking, the only original contribution of Abrahamic mythology is monopatriarchy. I don't say monotheism. In the Abrahamics, only the male divine principle is worshipped; the female principle is denied or sublimated into Mary-worship. Christianity has a divine Father and Son. The mother is a human vessel used only to incarnate the male Divine.

I think that Jesus, like The Flood, may have had some actual historical inspiration, maybe some minor local celebrity not notable enough to make it into the written record. Robert Graves, in King Jesus, theorized that Jesus was a political revolutionary who wanted to establish a thousand-year reign of him and his disciples, the Millenium.

An interesting speculative fiction read is "Behold The Man" by Michael Moorcock, an sf novella which won the 1967 Nebula Award and was later expanded to novel form. I won't give spoilers, except that it involves time travel.

What REALLY disturbs me is the bloody theocracy of Christianized Rome as it fell. This set the tone for centuries of oppression and conflict.

Thanks for the very educational link.

*cross-commented from https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016372881

There was no Jesus [View all] Celerity Feb 2024 OP
k&r nt flying rabbit Feb 2024 #1
At this point, does it matter? Ocelot II Feb 2024 #2
Everything matters - or ... dchill Feb 2024 #3
It only matters as an objective response to the Mike Johnsons of the world... Thunderbeast Feb 2024 #7
Bookmarking True Dough Feb 2024 #4
Good read. Fascinating analysis of the analysts. . . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2024 #5
I think this is the earliest form of good marketing...nt mitch96 Feb 2024 #6
I think a lot of liberal Christians harumph Feb 2024 #8
I'll go with the Harry Potter analogy. Voltaire2 Feb 2024 #10
I take a more charitable view - but I'm not a literalist... harumph Feb 2024 #11
Using Flavius Josephus as a reference is a mistake Christians often make Doc Sportello Feb 2024 #34
And one of the references is now generally Voltaire2 Feb 2024 #63
Is that 'Christian', though? pandr32 Feb 2024 #55
Yeah but the vast majority of biblical historians, Voltaire2 Feb 2024 #9
Ok, did Siddhartha Gautama actually exist do you think? harumph Feb 2024 #12
I have no idea, and no. Voltaire2 Feb 2024 #15
The historical record is routinely altered. colorado_ufo Feb 2024 #14
The Roman Empire was generally tolerant Voltaire2 Feb 2024 #18
Interesting and informative. colorado_ufo Feb 2024 #28
But wasn't that how "Christianity" began.... Think. Again. Feb 2024 #52
Not sure about that. colorado_ufo Feb 2024 #59
To me, that seems to be the most logical conclusion... Think. Again. Feb 2024 #60
I think he is a composite character Mr.Bill Feb 2024 #13
And here's a composite drawing to go with that composite character: True Dough Feb 2024 #30
And another image based on forensic science True Dough Feb 2024 #32
Orange Jesus is real. twodogsbarking Feb 2024 #16
And yet, ideas attributed to him survived 2,000 years. surfered Feb 2024 #17
As a seeker, these are not unique to this religion I've found. slightlv Feb 2024 #22
These aren't necessarily him either angrychair Feb 2024 #26
The "Golden Rule" exists in all the major religious and spiritual traditions, Ocelot II Feb 2024 #29
You sure those weren't stolen True Dough Feb 2024 #35
About the beatitudes Voltaire2 Feb 2024 #36
Attributed incorrectly. SarahD Feb 2024 #41
But those are basic 'good' human traits that go all the way back, way before the Jesus thing, aren't they? Think. Again. Feb 2024 #53
👇👇👇👁️👁️ Goonch Feb 2024 #19
Kicking. MontanaMama Feb 2024 #20
"The Christian theory is little else than anciano Feb 2024 #21
I said something similar above, slightlv Feb 2024 #24
Imo, a person that came to be called Yeshua lonely bird Feb 2024 #23
I even asked my sister slightlv Feb 2024 #25
The repetition of ancient themes in christian myth orthoclad Feb 2024 #27
Jesus died again yesterday in Navalny's death Ponietz Feb 2024 #31
Thank you! pazzyanne Feb 2024 #38
The greatest lesson of the Bible - don't fuck with the men who has the money and the power Probatim Feb 2024 #56
Our calendar is all wrong then? pwb Feb 2024 #33
Just for the record, pazzyanne Feb 2024 #37
Just for the record, this forum is open Voltaire2 Feb 2024 #64
Just for the record - pazzyanne Feb 2024 #65
Your opinion is welcome. Voltaire2 Feb 2024 #66
Thank you, Voltaire2. pazzyanne Feb 2024 #67
Well twodogsbarking Feb 2024 #39
I cite, for example..... Shoonra Feb 2024 #40
No shooting an apple? No killing Gessler? SarahD Feb 2024 #43
A lot of earlier religions preached the same story. Emile Feb 2024 #42
Thought this theory was interesting & logical: Roman Emperors Invented Christianity Attilatheblond Feb 2024 #44
One bit of evidence that Jesus did exist thucythucy Feb 2024 #45
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Qutzupalotl Feb 2024 #46
It actually is evidence edhopper Feb 2024 #48
There was a revolution some years after his death Warpy Feb 2024 #47
I had heard that Christianity edhopper Feb 2024 #49
Washn't he dead by this time? Warpy Feb 2024 #57
Not Mark the Apostle edhopper Feb 2024 #58
An interesting observation edhopper Feb 2024 #50
Look up Jim Palmer AwakeAtLast Feb 2024 #51
I'm just getting started studying what I agree is the evolution of religion. I watched a lot of Bart Ehrman on his brewens Feb 2024 #54
Very peculiar presentation of this statistic: Qutzupalotl Feb 2024 #61
I like omnipotent beings that get it right the first time. czarjak Feb 2024 #62
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