2016 Postmortem

cali

(114,904 posts) Sun Feb 21, 2016, 03:46 PM Feb 2016

371

I'm beginning to see the gap as unbridgeable. [View all]

All the corporate and dark money flowing into Clinton coffers is fine with Clinton supporters. I don't know if they believe Hillary will do anything or not if she became president. The point is, I've had it with this shit, and hillary Clinton is neck deep in it.

I believe money, flowing into the parties and to politicians- big money, corporate money, dark money- is the most urgent problem we face. There is so much evidence piled up proving how corrupt our government is because of it. It's like the emperor's fucking non-existent new clothes. We have built a culture around pretending our government isn't really corrupt.

And trusting Hillary on this issue? The cognitive dissonance it takes to do that is beyond me. Just can't do it.

And I know Hillary supporters have a totally different perspective. I just don't think it adds up.

In short, we are talking different languages.

305 replies

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I'm beginning to see the gap as unbridgeable. [View all] cali Feb 2016 OP

Unfortunately..... daleanime Feb 2016 #1

Damn SCantiGOP Feb 2016 #28

It's the gap between liberals and moderate conservatives. frylock Feb 2016 #41

Damn, I was wrong again SCantiGOP Feb 2016 #122

Our idealism is pragmatic. It is the only way we see Ed Suspicious Feb 2016 #131

It's not pragmatic when it would result in Dems woolldog Feb 2016 #149

Paranoia. MisterFred Feb 2016 #158

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, sir. woolldog Feb 2016 #164

And to follow up to MrFred SCantiGOP Feb 2016 #179

Wow, really? Beartracks Feb 2016 #251

I have never heard of a Republican anywhere who would vote for her AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #285

Lol. Do the research. cali Feb 2016 #287

I know of two moderate Republicans who are now supporting HRC. And they'd Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2016 #299

I think that a lot of Hillary fans are just afraid of change. JDPriestly Feb 2016 #254

The problem is that if big money has a lock on elections, Rebkeh Feb 2016 #197

Unfortunately logic is lost with some people. But willful ignorance? Phlem Feb 2016 #300

Good advice, that. Nt Rebkeh Feb 2016 #302

sadly, HRC is the choice that will lead to Trump -- it's math. anyone can add it up. nashville_brook Feb 2016 #212

Obviously, woolldog Feb 2016 #220

Right concern... daleanime Feb 2016 #219

Did you even read what you wrote before you clicked "Post my Reply"? MattSh Feb 2016 #265

.... woolldog Feb 2016 #290

I could care less what the party designation is if it's not LIBERALS in control. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2016 #305

Too right! I have said from the beginning that Hillary is by far Bernie's toughest opponent. Dustlawyer Feb 2016 #267

There is a gap between pragmatic Democrats and cynical Democrats tularetom Feb 2016 #139

When your wrongs keep adding up, it's time to look at where we are in the most corrupt campaign.. MrMickeysMom Feb 2016 #153

+1 Ed Suspicious Feb 2016 #166

No its a contest between pragmatic traditional Democratic values vs. continued right wing ologarchy LiberalLovinLug Feb 2016 #209

See what they did there? JohnnyRingo Feb 2016 #226

"Pragmatism"= "we don't want to fight the GOP, because we hold the same positions Lorien Feb 2016 #232

Pragmatism is an excuse to accept a corrupt culture that has given us 16 million children living in rhett o rick Feb 2016 #237

+1 applegrove Feb 2016 #241

Your response proves cali's point, I'm afraid RufusTFirefly Feb 2016 #174

Yet TeddyR Feb 2016 #189

Decades of corporate propaganda have paid off RufusTFirefly Feb 2016 #198

Really? timmymoff Feb 2016 #243

Your comment is incorrect based on the popular vote totals already taken. tonybgood Feb 2016 #270

no, here it is most defintely a team thing Skittles Feb 2016 #234

The gap between Dem establishment and the left... HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #185

Welcome Hooptie SCantiGOP Feb 2016 #194

Burn those bridges! HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #208

How wrong do you want to be? SCantiGOP Feb 2016 #211

I did not state my decision, so don't put words in my mouth. HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #213

"They see no difference" SCantiGOP Feb 2016 #215

If you want the lefts votes, you have to earn them. HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #217

Alright Hooptie SCantiGOP Feb 2016 #222

That made me laugh timmymoff Feb 2016 #245

Need to read your history SCantiGOP Feb 2016 #273

I need to learn history? timmymoff Feb 2016 #283

No credible analyst or study SCantiGOP Feb 2016 #284

again. timmymoff Feb 2016 #289

Agree, 100%! chwaliszewski Feb 2016 #228

you might want to delete your post grasswire Feb 2016 #239

What is a "D"emocrat? daleanime Feb 2016 #227

This class war isn't between Democrats and Republicons. The class war is between the rhett o rick Feb 2016 #238

The gap between Sanders and Clinton is far greater than the gap between Clinton and the Doctor_J Feb 2016 #262

What's at stake. Kittycat Feb 2016 #56

I think you may be right... freebrew Feb 2016 #168

Exactly, in will be the SOS! n/t RKP5637 Feb 2016 #187

When Citizens Suffer BDS - The Results Are Completely Predictable cantbeserious Feb 2016 #2

How to do the addition HassleCat Feb 2016 #3

You are making the point. cali Feb 2016 #9

^^^ This. Eleanors38 Feb 2016 #70

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2016 #85

Sounds like a protection racket NowSam Feb 2016 #117

How UnDemocratic & selfish of you, 99th_Monkey Feb 2016 #134

You are right. What was I thinking? nt NowSam Feb 2016 #150

God, I can't wait till Bernie fires DWS!! Elmer S. E. Dump Feb 2016 #293

Holy fucking mother of dog shit... MrMickeysMom Feb 2016 #162

Wow that was a great analysis CorkySt.Clair Feb 2016 #200

I got the same idea a looooong time ago. Wilms Feb 2016 #4

They want her, and those issues are secondary. TDale313 Feb 2016 #5

shape-shifting is definitely what it is. Merryland Feb 2016 #11

You forgot because they own her. KPN Feb 2016 #21

Head to toe, lock stock and barrel. hifiguy Feb 2016 #105

I'm thinking they don't...anymore sammythecat Feb 2016 #298

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2016 #252

It seems to fly in the face of common sense, Merryland Feb 2016 #6

The status quo is very comfortable for some. nt. polly7 Feb 2016 #7

2 days later they're still pushing Huerta: they don't care MisterP Feb 2016 #8

Only because many if not most people still aren't paying attention ... KPN Feb 2016 #22

yeah, what sort of campaign RELIES on people being too broke to donate to anyone else MisterP Feb 2016 #31

Someone trying to take Democratic out of Democracy Matariki Feb 2016 #102

Just because it isnt true doesnt mean its not an important story! Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #260

Actually, I agree with you about corporate money. But, as long as that is allowed by current laws, Hoyt Feb 2016 #10

I don't believe anyone who thinks that's a vital issue, could support cali Feb 2016 #17

Do you care to elaborate or just post your usual BS. If GOPers are taking it, why not our candidate Hoyt Feb 2016 #25

If you resort to a republican style of campaigning tularetom Feb 2016 #52

I've seen campaign tactics like HRH's before. hifiguy Feb 2016 #107

this is an interesting conspiracy theory. too bad you can't elaborate.... bettyellen Feb 2016 #182

Ask Jeb! how important all that PAC money is to winning this election. lapfog_1 Feb 2016 #136

Bernie has proved that people will pay up for something they believe in Armstead Feb 2016 #146

The Polls show Bernie beating ALL Republicans. bvar22 Feb 2016 #221

It is hardly just one discrete election cycle. It is Hillary's.entire disgusting cali Feb 2016 #257

Perhaps there are some who are unaware how long the vetting process is before someone gets here. nolabels Feb 2016 #35

And still a young one term Senator managed to get elected and stay Ed Suspicious Feb 2016 #137

And I was more than proud to contribute to that campaign also nolabels Feb 2016 #157

Sure, and no one who supports peace would ever object to.... ThreeWayFanny Feb 2016 #193

Thank you. (nt) NurseJackie Feb 2016 #39

I believe like you. If you want a level playing field you at least have to play on the same field. Jitter65 Feb 2016 #130

Bingo! The same people who slam Hillary for taking legal corporate $ stopbush Feb 2016 #177

"...so there is no reason to believe Clinton has to, or even will, repay them..." CrispyQ Feb 2016 #280

Well, you are just speculating based upon how you might react. We know for a fact, she got $280K Hoyt Feb 2016 #281

The choice farleftlib Feb 2016 #12

That is my slogan too. truedelphi Feb 2016 #255

The photograph & footage of Bernie being arrested for what he believes tell you all you need to know Merryland Feb 2016 #13

The Primaries are far from over, but Pandora's Box is open and the cat is out of the bag. libdem4life Feb 2016 #14

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Feb 2016 #15

"Never take a knife to a gunfight" oasis Feb 2016 #16

That comment is so puerile it's depressing. cali Feb 2016 #18

The funny thing is that Obama, who overused that phrase, ended up taking a spork to Warren Stupidity Feb 2016 #19

A plastic spork at that. democrank Feb 2016 #23

One of those ones that melts in hot liquids. Warren Stupidity Feb 2016 #24

Is that Old Codger Feb 2016 #74

You got the point, right.? oasis Feb 2016 #109

Apparently you don't Old Codger Feb 2016 #118

I honestly believe this is the way the party 'dies' Joe the Revelator Feb 2016 #20

I think both parties are in their death throes. nt artislife Feb 2016 #32

Would love to see Working Families Party become a national one Autumn Colors Feb 2016 #53

As long as it cherishes poor people and the unable to work. Ed Suspicious Feb 2016 #163

That's a VERY interesting observation; I hadn't looked at it like that before, closeupready Feb 2016 #77

If I vote for Hillary.... democrank Feb 2016 #26

Since I have to live with myself 840high Feb 2016 #34

Then you are saying that you can live with a Trump, Cruz, or Rubio presidency onenote Feb 2016 #42

No, sorry. Autumn Colors Feb 2016 #54

That's too bad. But if you can live with one of those maniacs as President onenote Feb 2016 #73

At that point, I'll have to turn my attention to trying to survive (nt) Autumn Colors Feb 2016 #76

Try surviving in a Cruz theocracy, longship Feb 2016 #192

So will I Autumn Colors. peacebird Feb 2016 #195

If Bernie does not get the 840high Feb 2016 #63

Please at least vote Green Party then (nt) Autumn Colors Feb 2016 #79

good suggestion. indivisibleman Feb 2016 #89

onenote greymouse Feb 2016 #67

Yes. 840high Feb 2016 #72

If we don't stop the repubs, a lot fewer people will have a choice onenote Feb 2016 #78

We have a choice of forming a new party AFTER this election Autumn Colors Feb 2016 #82

What you fail to realize is that... Nacho-_-Bandito Feb 2016 #140

"This scare tactic doesn't work anymore because we HAVE ALREADY reached the point........... DJ13 Feb 2016 #242

Spot on Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Feb 2016 #135

Slow boil, fast boil - we're dead either way bread_and_roses Feb 2016 #271

I'll only vote for her if my state is actually in play. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2016 #272

Neither can I. n/t PonyUp Feb 2016 #47

I'm a Hillary supporter, but I'll vote for Bernie, if it comes down to it. Paladin Feb 2016 #61

But if Hillary wins the nomination... LovingA2andMI Feb 2016 #114

President Trump? Thanks for nothing, "believers." Paladin Feb 2016 #154

Glad its Contagious to you. LovingA2andMI Feb 2016 #155

If I vote for Hillary in the general, I'm voting against the republican nominee bhikkhu Feb 2016 #37

I don't think the party is really a "big tent" anymore. it does not want to be newthinking Feb 2016 #58

! appalachiablue Feb 2016 #147

Voting is starting to seem like a useless act. mainer Feb 2016 #27

This Gen-Xer is starting to feel the same. frylock Feb 2016 #46

That makes two of us.... LovingA2andMI Feb 2016 #115

You're right, kid... ThreeWayFanny Feb 2016 #202

Gee. Thanks, pops. frylock Feb 2016 #203

As my son likes to say... ThreeWayFanny Feb 2016 #216

I'm a boomer who's voted Dem. in every election since 1980 Autumn Colors Feb 2016 #60

Same here. indivisibleman Feb 2016 #93

Good for you! And don't worry .... ThreeWayFanny Feb 2016 #218

Eeyup. hifiguy Feb 2016 #111

Yo that. appalachiablue Feb 2016 #148

and then you'll blame Hillary for losing the election Skittles Feb 2016 #233

Nope. Autumn Colors Feb 2016 #235

Boy, do I ever hear you. truedelphi Feb 2016 #256

Winner!!!! tazkcmo Feb 2016 #269

I also think it is unbridgeable pengu Feb 2016 #29

For me it quit working 840high Feb 2016 #36

I agree. Ed Suspicious Feb 2016 #30

Next to environmental issues, you are right, logosoco Feb 2016 #33

Unbridgeable. Juicy_Bellows Feb 2016 #38

Agree completely. HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #40

I live in the real world..idealist don't beachbumbob Feb 2016 #43

Enjoy your real-world general election beat down. frylock Feb 2016 #48

exactly ^^^^ n/t indivisibleman Feb 2016 #98

Yep and .....This^^^^^ LovingA2andMI Feb 2016 #116

this thread is much too depressing. it needs cheering up griloco Feb 2016 #44

We used this song in a local Maryland film festival trailer Merryland Feb 2016 #64

i wish I coulda been there. griloco Feb 2016 #110

It was a total coincidence. Merryland Feb 2016 #159

You're right. It's unbridgeable. qwlauren35 Feb 2016 #45

For example, I saw a list of the things that Hillary does or doesn't support and I was okay with it. AlbertCat Feb 2016 #55

Some things I don't think she'll flip-flop on. qwlauren35 Feb 2016 #106

So what is her stance on "childhood education"? Art_from_Ark Feb 2016 #246

I'll vote for either in November for similar reasons DemocraticWing Feb 2016 #253

Good grief. cheapdate Feb 2016 #49

He also said, if you're in a blue state vote green. n/t TIME TO PANIC Feb 2016 #68

I am and probably will Autumn Colors Feb 2016 #71

Unfortunately, I live in a swing state, North Carolina. n/t TIME TO PANIC Feb 2016 #86

You aren't alone. Sigh nt Duval Feb 2016 #138

I'm in NC too ms liberty Feb 2016 #186

I'm in North Raliegh and you're right, there's no way Hillary can take NC in the general. TIME TO PANIC Feb 2016 #206

Yes, the premise being that such a vote in a safe blue state cheapdate Feb 2016 #97

Might as well, if a Democrat doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell. n/t TIME TO PANIC Feb 2016 #125

My state is as blue as the sky in presidential elections hifiguy Feb 2016 #178

Living in a purple state sucks. TIME TO PANIC Feb 2016 #190

So has Bernie said anything about the RW SuperPacs putting up anti-Hillary ads ucrdem Feb 2016 #50

That is such a red herring. Silly same playing seems to be the cali Feb 2016 #69

In your OP you called it "the most urgent problem we face." So make up your mind. nt ucrdem Feb 2016 #99

I didn't contradict myself. Let me be clear: Hill SuperPacs are no better than Rubio cali Feb 2016 #288

Have the Dems ever deliberately jettisoned and alienated the left before, and won? delrem Feb 2016 #51

see 2010 and 2014 and you have your answer...shit, in their wisdom islandmkl Feb 2016 #87

If I quit working, I can go back to indigent care at the county hospital. As I am working, I am DhhD Feb 2016 #119

Excellent Summary of What Many Loathe McKim Feb 2016 #205

HRC needs to pick Lloyd Blankfein as her VP. That way everything will be on the Up and Up. LiberalArkie Feb 2016 #57

it doesnt matter to them restorefreedom Feb 2016 #59

Yes. Correct. closeupready Feb 2016 #83

Yep. They will continue lining their pockets hifiguy Feb 2016 #184

Hell yeah, Cali! On everything you said. dinkytron Feb 2016 #62

Corruption, or Uh, Clinton Wins, Again! mckara Feb 2016 #65

The Princeton Study is my touchstone Beowulf Feb 2016 #66

Yes, it's sort of like proof that we aren't the crazies. They are. cali Feb 2016 #75

And they expect us to offer freely our support for their candidate, Beowulf Feb 2016 #91

The sociopath is a word or idea you might want to get to understand better nolabels Feb 2016 #108

I think normal is bullshit and I think the label sociopath cali Feb 2016 #127

Yep, I do too, to a point nolabels Feb 2016 #207

Agreed...and it doesn't really represent actual sociopathy very well. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2016 #275

"Unbridgeable" my ass. Paladin Feb 2016 #80

Not light-years. indivisibleman Feb 2016 #101

This Argument is Old.... LovingA2andMI Feb 2016 #121

I'm 100% with you CanonRay Feb 2016 #81

We are talking different languages indeed, by design. Watch the way they twist the silvershadow Feb 2016 #84

I'm sorry if someone else said this - OhZone Feb 2016 #88

Bear in mind that a million for Bernie is like 5-7 million superpac money for others. Lucky Luciano Feb 2016 #169

Here is some math for you. Yuugal Feb 2016 #236

I'm with you Cali Matariki Feb 2016 #90

I'm beginning to surmise it as well Populist_Prole Feb 2016 #92

I'm beginning to surmise Matariki Feb 2016 #104

Is that what they call paid trolls and ratfuckers these days? hifiguy Feb 2016 #188

It's a wierd thing. Bangbangdem Feb 2016 #94

Maybe this? Populist_Prole Feb 2016 #129

I Didn't Leave the Democratic Party; Chasstev365 Feb 2016 #95

I may be headed to the door soon. davidpdx Feb 2016 #248

But...but...Clinton is against corporate funding...sometimes...maybe..a little bit..when convenient. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #96

The thought of Wasserman Schultz being rewarded with a cabinet level position Matariki Feb 2016 #100

It makes me want to heave davidpdx Feb 2016 #249

Bravo! Bravissimo!! hifiguy Feb 2016 #103

Maybe you should actually study the issue of inequality... Sancho Feb 2016 #112

And the Princeton study disagrees with your concluslions cali Feb 2016 #124

Why do you feel your links support your claim? One of them is a book review that does not Jefferson23 Feb 2016 #126

Ok..follow the links for one simple example.... Sancho Feb 2016 #167

With all due respect, your conclusions continue to point to a polluted electoral system. Jefferson23 Feb 2016 #196

Oh get off it....Save your powder till the fall when it is needed against the GOP Armstead Feb 2016 #176

Being treated the way he has by the Democratic Establishment, I hope Bernie andrewv1 Feb 2016 #113

I know he said he'd never do that Autumn Colors Feb 2016 #133

this election exposes a huge weakness among liberals. SleeplessinSoCal Feb 2016 #120

Uh Huh.... LovingA2andMI Feb 2016 #123

Well, I'm with you, cali, on this. Duval Feb 2016 #128

I just saw a post on FB Bjornsdotter Feb 2016 #132

Under ideal circumstances Turbineguy Feb 2016 #141

Cognitive dissonance is the perfect term pdsimdars Feb 2016 #142

I try to understand Clinton supporters perspective but I admit it is more than difficult for me. Jefferson23 Feb 2016 #143

This isn't about Sanders v. Clinton. It's about what happens after the nomination is settled. onenote Feb 2016 #151

The OP is about corruption in politics and who is best placed to confront it. The primary is Jefferson23 Feb 2016 #171

Public financing of campaigns. blm Feb 2016 #144

We have been disenfranchised. frustrated_lefty Feb 2016 #145

Yea the willingness to overlook corruption DemocraticSocialist8 Feb 2016 #152

Hillary supporters have established themselves as the opponents of progressive policy. Maedhros Feb 2016 #156

It's weird, I agree. n/t Jefferson23 Feb 2016 #201

So the world doesn't conform to your ideological standards Cary Feb 2016 #160

I just can't do it TrueDemVA Feb 2016 #161

I was just saying to someone this morning Rebkeh Feb 2016 #165

We're not even looking at the election the same way Jack Rabbit Feb 2016 #170

Your OP parrots Bernie' one-note view of the world to perfection. stopbush Feb 2016 #172

I think your OP is completely unfair GitRDun Feb 2016 #173

The fact that her supporters make excuses after excuses about how it's ok for her to take davidpdx Feb 2016 #247

Sorry, I'm sure there are exceptions built most Hillary supporters cali Feb 2016 #258

OK well too broad brush for me...no worries. eom GitRDun Feb 2016 #303

K&R. JDPriestly Feb 2016 #175

The majority of Americans are NOT part of the wealth of this country. Even if you make a couple RKP5637 Feb 2016 #180

I just don't understand Hillary Clinton supporters Don Draper Feb 2016 #181

As hillary says... ThreeWayFanny Feb 2016 #210

Any that aren't 1%'ers make no sense to me, either. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2016 #274

Now you say you don't understand us, when half your posts say you know exactly what we think CreekDog Feb 2016 #304

Never give up warrprayer Feb 2016 #183

True in politics and life rufus dog Feb 2016 #191

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Feb 2016 #199

The purpose of a bridge is to get from point A to point B. world wide wally Feb 2016 #204

Can't Bridge the Gap to War McKim Feb 2016 #214

My wife and I each donated $27 to Hillary's campaign Chico Man Feb 2016 #223

And that has absolutely nothing to do with it. cali Feb 2016 #231

K&R! I would love to see this receive several hundreds of recommendations! Enthusiast Feb 2016 #224

Agreed. blackspade Feb 2016 #225

I'm with you, but... zentrum Feb 2016 #229

We can't change any issue for the better without getting money out of politics first Lorien Feb 2016 #230

I'm not sure what I'll do if Clinton wins nom but I've been thinking Nanjeanne Feb 2016 #240

There was an entry poll LittleBlue Feb 2016 #244

Allow me to speak your language. Third Way Speak twists my tongue into a fork. eom Betty Karlson Feb 2016 #250

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Feb 2016 #259

I'm almost thinking we need a Progressive Underground and leave Elmer S. E. Dump Feb 2016 #261

I agree (nt) Autumn Colors Feb 2016 #263

It's identity politics whirlygigspin Feb 2016 #264

I don't see anything or anyone holding you back. Just make a choice & do it. EV_Ares Feb 2016 #279

Kick cali Feb 2016 #266

The divide is clear. One finds a friend in multi-national corporations. raouldukelives Feb 2016 #268

imo we have gone beyond the point where truebluegreen Feb 2016 #276

Given the Proportional Distribution of delegates on the Dem side, in a two-way race it either has JCMach1 Feb 2016 #277

Another bitter post from same poster trashing Clinton. Poor loser. EV_Ares Feb 2016 #278

"We have built a culture around pretending our government isn't really corrupt." Smarmie Doofus Feb 2016 #282

Thank you very much. cali Feb 2016 #286

Bottom line--GE will be the ins vs. the outs randr Feb 2016 #291

It has been unbridgeable for a few years nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #292

Please don't get discouraged about the gap! TygrBright Feb 2016 #294

She doesn't have a penis. Thus, she's worthy of all our votes. MadDAsHell Feb 2016 #295

A significant chunk of this baffling cognitive dissonance, sammythecat Feb 2016 #296

Totally agree. We are not only talking different languages but jwirr Feb 2016 #297

Word. It can't be fixed by an effective ad or an impressive debate performance RufusTFirefly Feb 2016 #301