2016 Postmortem

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)

141. which differs significantly from the article in the op

Tue Mar 29, 2016, 10:21 AM

Mar 2016

Last edited Tue Mar 29, 2016, 11:02 AM - Edit history (1)

do you have a link?

A family with $4000 month paycheck would notice an ADDITIONAL $800 increase over and above that pittance originally quoted by Bernie

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"the Sanders campaign is simply pulling numbers out of the air." [View all] geek tragedy Mar 2016 OP

"21"? daleanime Mar 2016 #1

42 JustABozoOnThisBus Mar 2016 #129

Why does the other founder of the American Prospect... GeorgiaPeanuts Mar 2016 #2

He is looking for a better job, Sanders is his only hope. Hoyt Mar 2016 #61

And this is why Single Payer failed in Vermont. DanTex Mar 2016 #3

This is why he shouldn't be President. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #4

But... but... but... cui bono Mar 2016 #6

So am I. I still find his campaigning dishonest Recursion Mar 2016 #31

Examples? cui bono Mar 2016 #98

"We spend twice as much per capita on health care as any other nation on earth" Recursion Mar 2016 #107

Actually, we do spend twice as much, and sometimes more SheilaT Mar 2016 #152

We spend twice the OECD average, but not "twice as much as any other industrialized country" Recursion Mar 2016 #165

No you aren't. kristopher Mar 2016 #120

He gets my vote and my money; what else do you want? Recursion Mar 2016 #121

5thC kristopher Mar 2016 #127

Uhh, the cost doesn't matter scscholar Mar 2016 #27

on planet earth, the cost always matters. That's why we pay taxes nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #32

So if we don't raise taxes, who will be paying for health care? DemocracyDirect Mar 2016 #111

Except of course when it comes to war, then the wars pay for themselves Fumesucker Mar 2016 #119

Is that how you rationalize the privatization of Social Security? And ending food stamps? rhett o rick Mar 2016 #48

LOL, been in a supermarket line lately? ucrdem Mar 2016 #55

Neither of those things will happen with Hillary. With the Republicans-probably redstateblues Mar 2016 #66

On Kenneth Thorpe’s Analysis of Senator Sanders’ Single-Payer Reform Plan think Mar 2016 #63

Please reread the part of the OP in bold and tell me geek tragedy Mar 2016 #67

Where did Dylan Matthews get these numbers? I can't find them anywhere other than in these think Mar 2016 #109

Matthews article geek tragedy Mar 2016 #112

So now you claim Freidman is a quack? You're entitled to your opinion but in case you haven't notice think Mar 2016 #113

You think it's just wonderful that people failed to notice that their current premiums would-- eridani Mar 2016 #5

You think he's a Democrat? HERVEPA Mar 2016 #7

He's far closer to Dem party platform positions thqn his opponent eridani Mar 2016 #10

Not talking about Bernie. Check the last line of your previous post. HERVEPA Mar 2016 #17

Is math a personality thing or a policy thing? nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #18

It just changes if you are getting the right kickback maybe? Tiggeroshii Mar 2016 #110

That is not what they said. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #9

The price tag was lower than the total cost of health insurance premiums n/t eridani Mar 2016 #11

Why did it fail in Vermont? geek tragedy Mar 2016 #15

So I take it kaleckim Mar 2016 #68

It can work if done right, but to do it right you have to do the math right. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #73

Give me a break kaleckim Mar 2016 #87

Which country did an overnight transition from a system like ours geek tragedy Mar 2016 #88

Again, you say "overnight" kaleckim Mar 2016 #91

I agree it will take a long time. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #93

Nonsense kaleckim Mar 2016 #95

So what is he planning to do in office, hold teach-ins? nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #97

What is your argument? kaleckim Mar 2016 #101

Presidents aren't protest leaders. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #102

They can lead by inspiring the public using the bully pulpit n/t eridani Mar 2016 #116

bully pulpit doesn't work in a polarized country geek tragedy Mar 2016 #149

The country isn't polarized on the issues kaleckim Mar 2016 #155

Everything wrong with your party kaleckim Mar 2016 #147

So you hate Democrats, okay I don't care what you think then Bye nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #148

No, I hate your argument, mindset... kaleckim Mar 2016 #151

Taiwan and South Korea n/t eridani Mar 2016 #115

Yes, by about 10 percent at the most... that's not enough savings to tear shit up uponit7771 Mar 2016 #16

The savings grow over time--especially for the 55-65 age demographic eridani Mar 2016 #24

Unnnn, still not worth tearin shit up... that's what the national SP plan would do too. uponit7771 Mar 2016 #29

Tearing shit up gets rid of useless parasitic insurance companies eridani Mar 2016 #33

and keeps the the overtly parasitic doctors, pharma and hospital corporations. So instead of paying uponit7771 Mar 2016 #38

Insurance companies don't provide health care. Doctors do. End of story. eridani Mar 2016 #43

Too many coulds and ACA would be ended by inertia uponit7771 Mar 2016 #51

It will not end until replaced by something better n/t eridani Mar 2016 #59

Where is it that you got that $200...out of thin air? Sheepshank Mar 2016 #70

From an estimate by a couple of UW professors on the Washington Health Security Trust n/t eridani Mar 2016 #114

which differs significantly from the article in the op Sheepshank Mar 2016 #141

You want a copy of the Fox Report for WA State? eridani Mar 2016 #167

I just wanted to read the details of the info you had and where it came from Sheepshank Mar 2016 #171

I'll post a couple of items from my slide show eridani Mar 2016 #174

Horse shit. phleshdef Mar 2016 #21

None of those excuses make any sense. DanTex Mar 2016 #128

Other entire countries have pulled it off phleshdef Mar 2016 #159

Those countries have much higher taxes than what Bernie is proposing. DanTex Mar 2016 #161

More economic diversity typically means more incomes to pull from. phleshdef Mar 2016 #163

You guys rationalize why Goldman-Sachs should rip us off and dare pretend that you care. rhett o rick Mar 2016 #22

he knows he isn't going to win the nomination JI7 Mar 2016 #8

he is saying the opposite nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #13

+1, Magic asterisks, conciliatory GOP congress's, ponies, unicorns and podium bird.. uponit7771 Mar 2016 #12

Dust sprinkled by the Indictment Fairy nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #14

This is the reason I think he's staying in, Tad Devine has a Reddit account and someones convinced uponit7771 Mar 2016 #19

They really are Clinton in 2008. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #20

+1, they're even winning nearly the same constituency Hillary lost with in 2008... lol on "whitey uponit7771 Mar 2016 #23

Nothing, other than objective reality kaleckim Mar 2016 #77

I disagree with your first statement IE the Sanders camp discontent with Obama. Overnight is relativ uponit7771 Mar 2016 #142

Sure, they may want it within 8 years kaleckim Mar 2016 #150

And you are willing to turn your backs on the 16,000,000 American children living in poverty. rhett o rick Mar 2016 #25

Let's first use honest math. RandySF Mar 2016 #28

Don't pretend you care about honesty. You side with those that want money over everything. rhett o rick Mar 2016 #36

Oh, you can reads minds now? RandySF Mar 2016 #45

Those that bow before the golden calf are easy to read. Greed uber alles. nm rhett o rick Mar 2016 #52

Why do you think she has to bust her ass raising more millions? ucrdem Mar 2016 #46

She pockets a lot of it. $150,000,000 while pretending she cares about the peons. I guess you rhett o rick Mar 2016 #50

According to Alex Jones or HA Goodman? ucrdem Mar 2016 #53

How do you rationalize siding with those that would kill SS and other safety nets. rhett o rick Mar 2016 #56

I answered above. Go to any supermarket and observe. nt ucrdem Mar 2016 #58

BSS propaganda-Those things will only happen if the Republicans win redstateblues Mar 2016 #75

You are mistaken if you think the Class War is between Democrats and Republicons. rhett o rick Mar 2016 #164

$230 billion to $541 billion dollars over the next decade. k8conant Mar 2016 #47

It's the damn bird, it's his MATH source, not good....n/t blueintelligentsia Mar 2016 #26

PNHP math is quite good, actually eridani Mar 2016 #30

I know, they are, such a good source. Those Sander cultists... blueintelligentsia Mar 2016 #34

What is sad is your rationaliziations to give all our resources to the wealthy and the hell with rhett o rick Mar 2016 #54

They cite Thorpe's study nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #35

Former Clinton senior advisor Paul Starr has issues with Sanders' plan? opiate69 Mar 2016 #37

Did he force Sanders to lie about the prescription drug savings? geek tragedy Mar 2016 #41

Apparently, neither Mr. Starr, nor yourself, are familiar with the concept of "forecasting". opiate69 Mar 2016 #60

No, what happened was that Sanders claimed he could save $325 billion per year geek tragedy Mar 2016 #65

It is 100% possible to save that much. The actual savings will of course depent on-- eridani Mar 2016 #124

Yes, but he does it well, and the general electorate seems to like that Recursion Mar 2016 #39

lying about the numbers always catches up with them in the end though geek tragedy Mar 2016 #42

My question is...why don't Sanders and Clinton compromise with the public option? JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #57

Because nobody really believes providers would accept it Recursion Mar 2016 #62

Sigh...so single/multi payer (where the math doesn't currently add up) is the only option? JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #64

Structurally our system is similar to the Netherlands' and Germany's already Recursion Mar 2016 #72

Great post, thanks. I'm reading into the SGR now. JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #90

I'm afraid you're exactly right about the independent board Recursion Mar 2016 #92

Clinton's plan includes the public option. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #69

No, it does not. Prove it to me. JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #71

From her campaign website: geek tragedy Mar 2016 #76

How long term? She's not campaigning on it, she mentions protecting/expanding ACA JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #82

That is why she has a backup plan in case Congress does not cooperate. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #86

Yes, but the candidate has to campaign on that! Sanders would no doubt fall back to what she wants JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #89

It's on her website, but she sure the hell isn't campaigning on it eridani Mar 2016 #117

Any one of these guys could "cost out" eg. the Canadian single payer plan. delrem Mar 2016 #40

We pay twice what most other developed countries pay n/t eridani Mar 2016 #44

A shitload of Dems agree with Hillary Clinton. For profit private insurance is forever. delrem Mar 2016 #49

Nobody worries about money for the military, cluster bombs etc. Rosa Luxemburg Mar 2016 #74

Plenty of people worry about the Pentagon costing too much. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #79

It's not the first untruth BS campaign has touted. Sheepshank Mar 2016 #78

Wrong on many significant levels: Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #80

I didn't see anywhere in there support for the claim that geek tragedy Mar 2016 #83

Then by all means, carry on with your hit piece. n/t Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #85

that cost $305 Billion..... AlbertCat Mar 2016 #143

!applauds! Warren Stupidity Mar 2016 #132

Thank you, the OP is such a dishonest and terrible representation of Bernie's plan. n/t Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #133

Sorry that you think everyone outside the Bernie Bubble geek tragedy Mar 2016 #136

I'm not the one looking at partisan critics and relying on them. Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #140

they cite the Thorpe study nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #146

When I put in the numbers for me it told me that I would pay more in taxes. LiberalFighter Mar 2016 #81

This election season Aerows Mar 2016 #84

KNR Thank you! Lucinda Mar 2016 #94

Tad Devine wants that money coming in cosmicone Mar 2016 #96

One question: how do all those other countries do it? dchill Mar 2016 #99

They built their systems over decades without ever relying on employers to provide geek tragedy Mar 2016 #100

OK. So, it's too late for that here? dchill Mar 2016 #103

Taiwan implemented single payer in about a year n/t eridani Mar 2016 #118

Taiwan's not strictly single payer (there are copays), but we should emulate their system Recursion Mar 2016 #122

Copays or no copays have nothing to do with whether a system is single payer or not eridani Mar 2016 #123

Well, except that a system with copays has multiple payers Recursion Mar 2016 #125

OK--verbal technicality. n/t eridani Mar 2016 #126

What did Taiwan have in place before that? nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #138

Brief history at link eridani Mar 2016 #166

Paying for Hillary's Tax-Credit-Palooza TheDormouse Mar 2016 #104

Hillary panders with unrealistic tax promises TheDormouse Mar 2016 #105

Hillary's tax credit sweepstakes--there's one for u & u & u ... TheDormouse Mar 2016 #106

Clinton is being up front about how much her proposals would cost. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #108

"free" is the wrong word to use treestar Mar 2016 #130

Krugman- Sanders health plan looks a little bit like a standard Republican tax-cut plan Gothmog Mar 2016 #131

Article is old and debunked. thesquanderer Mar 2016 #134

Friedman is a quack. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #135

Krugman and the Gang of 4 Need to Apologize for Smearing Gerald Friedman Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #137

Romer and Romer eviscerated Friedman's nonsense. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #139

James Galbraith Describes Major Forecast Failure in Model Used by Romers to Attack Friedman on Sande Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #144

That's gibberish from Galbraith geek tragedy Mar 2016 #145

Gibberish? Galbraith is one of the leading experts on income inequality. Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #158

Galbraith breezily ignored the substance of Romer's critique geek tragedy Mar 2016 #160

PNHP disputes it and Starr's wiki page doesn't change a thing, anyone Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #162

Sad day when so called liberals are supporting arguments AGAINST single payer. Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #153

I am not attacking single payer, rather saying that the math has to work geek tragedy Mar 2016 #154

Yeah but he didnt fudge the numbers, at least not on purpose. Figuring out how to do it Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #156

yes, but he had to have the math worked out right in order geek tragedy Mar 2016 #157

Really interesting discussion, even though Demnorth Mar 2016 #168

A cost increase of 7% per year over 3 years is not an unreasonable estimate. baldguy Mar 2016 #169

Ha ha! Did you see the post of the 179 top economists who endorsed Bernie's plan? pdsimdars Mar 2016 #170

''When Wall Street firms lie about their finances, the legal term that applies is 'fraud.''' Octafish Mar 2016 #172

After being elected Bernie and his team can work out the details- there will be time andym Mar 2016 #173