Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
40. They are Right Wing by definition, their goals and their actions, their only "moderation" lies in
Wed May 11, 2016, 01:42 PM
May 2016

their social platform, over time even that has slowly begun to erode.

Was Eisenhower Right Wing? I believe he was. Here is a quote naming him in the Republican platform of the time:

Our great President Dwight D. Eisenhower has counseled us further: "In all those things which deal with people, be liberal, be human. In all those things which deal with people's money, or their economy, or their form of government, be conservative."

While jealously guarding the free institutions and preserving the principles upon which our Republic was founded and has flourished, the purpose of the Republican Party is to establish and maintain a peaceful world and build at home a dynamic prosperity in which every citizen fairly shares.


That belief is almost identical to that of the New Democrats that have taken control of the party.

New Democrats, in the politics of the United States, are an ideologically centrist faction within the Democratic Party that emerged after the victory of Republican George H. W. Bush in the 1988 presidential election. They are identified with centrist social/cultural/pluralist positions and neoliberal fiscal values. They are represented by organizations such as the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), the New Democrat Network, and the Senate and House New Democrat Coalitions

After the landslide electoral losses to Ronald Reagan in the 1980s, a group of prominent Democrats began to believe their party was in need of a radical shift in economic policy and ideas of governance. The Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) was founded in 1985 by Al From and a group of like-minded politicians and strategists. They advocated a political "Third Way" as a method to achieve the electoral successes of Reaganism by adopting similar economic policies (Reagan Democrats and Moderate Republicans would provide burgeoning new constituencies after adding these new economic policies and politicians to our tent they contended) While hoping to retain, woman, minorities and other social issues allies with long ties to the party. Such would be their new Democratic coalition forged between fiscal right and social left under the "New" Democratic banner. The DLC disbanded in 2011 during an apparent re-branding of the New Democrat movement when money ties to the Koch bros. and Koch representatives placed on the DLC's board embarrassingly became common knowledge among the Democratic left. The DLC is survived by the Third Way, The New Democrat Coalition, and Al From's Progressive Policy Institute among other corporate funded groups that continue to sell their Economic-Right/Social-Left brand of "Centrism" to America.


The only difference between the Eisenhower Right Wing and the New Democratic Right Wing that anybody with an ounce of political historical understanding is that the New Democratic version of moderate Right Wing appears to include a great deal more Military "adventurism" and a great deal less "maintain a peaceful world and build at home a dynamic prosperity in which every citizen fairly shares within it", I will admit however that the New Democratic Right Wing is split on this issue of "the eternal war Doctrine", Hillary Clinton being on the side of the neocon hawks in such internal debates.

You mistakenly believe that by comparing Moderate Right Wingers to near Fascists (Modern Republicans) somehow changes the meanings of words in the political lexicon, it does not. Your argument is both lacking in substance and is also fallacious.

Perhaps you are conflating Right and Left political definitions with what is called the "Overton window"

The Overton window, also known as the window of discourse, is the range of ideas the public will accept. It is used by media pundits.


But even then, Bernie Sanders and "New Democrats" both fall within that window and still fall respectively with Center Left and Right Wing as is revealed by national polling on issues

82% oppose cutting Social Security benefits in order to reduce the debt.
67% oppose cutting Social Security to make the program more solvent in the long term.
63% oppose reducing Social Security benefits for people earning more than $60,000 or more when they retire.
69% oppose raising the Social Security retirement age to 69.
66% support enacting Social Security taxes on wages about $106,800 (the Pay Roll Tax Cap) to make the program more solvent....

82% oppose reducing Medicate benefits in order to reduce the nation’s budget deficit.
64% oppose spending cuts to Medicare.
76% believe cutting Medicare to help reduce the budget deficit is mostly or totally unacceptable.....

58% say people should not have their Medicaid benefits taken away in order to deal with state budget problems.
69% oppose cutting spending on Medicaid in order to reduce the national debt.
76% oppose cutting state funding for the Medicaid health insurance program....

76% support increasing the taxes paid by people who make more than one million dollars a year
63% support increasing the taxes paid by people who make more than $250,000 a year.
64% think it is a good idea for the wealthy and corporations to pay their fair share in taxes and can afford to pay more for programs and government operations......


Now, let us compare the New right Wing Democrats to an actual Center left Democrat, Franklin D. Roosevelt

It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people — whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth — is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.

This Republic had its beginning, and grew to its present strength, under the protection of certain inalienable political rights — among them the right of free speech, free press, free worship, trial by jury, freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. They were our rights to life and liberty.

As our nation has grown in size and stature, however — as our industrial economy expanded — these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.

We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. "Necessitous men are not free men." People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all — regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
The right of every family to a decent home;
The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
The right to a good education.
All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.


America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens.


If the theme seems familiar, you will not find it on the "far left", as you would describe such, they are not the words of Trotsky Or Eugene Debs, but rather those of a center right Democrat, the closest thing we have to such a Democrat in our modern party is Bernie Sanders, who, like FDR, is not "far left fringe" but ideologically a center left Democrat, nothing more than a pre "Al From, Clinton - takeover of the party" Democrat.

His words sound rather like those spoken by FDR, do they not?

Quite the contrast to the agreeing words of both Eisenhower and the New Democrats.

I like the pre Right wing Democratic party and it was the one I joined many years ago. I feel we must return to what we once were AND MORE, I would like that party as it was but with added unity and equality for all humans no matter their insignificant differences in melanin, sex, sexual preferences, gender identities, or other minor differences. I would also like to see an effort to save the environment on a scale that would make the Manhattan Project, and the moon landing appear as trivial hobbies in comparison.

I suppose that would make me a "mouth frothing raving Communist" in your eyes, but I care so very little about how others judge by political beliefs that such would not even phase me, let alone leave me feeling insulted or disgraced.
Hillary and the DNC are not right wing. They are more moderate than you like, that's all. CrowCityDem May 2016 #1
Aiding and abetting the ongoing power grab of Wall St and Corporate Monopolists is not moderate Armstead May 2016 #3
Well Said! Ferd Berfel May 2016 #38
If allowing the people to decide is a CHANGE that reduces profits it may beforbidden by trade policy Baobab May 2016 #44
If TPP is enacted Ferd Berfel May 2016 #90
And bumper-stickers filled with the flavor-of-the-day pejoratives are not arguments. LanternWaste May 2016 #41
Not the flavor of the day Armstead May 2016 #43
And yet funnily enough whatthehey May 2016 #154
The 70's were a mess and the Democrats were trying to figure out what to be Armstead May 2016 #155
So ok Clinton's didn't start it. When should we grab the platform of the *real* Dem party? whatthehey May 2016 #156
There never was a Golden Era....But on balance the Dems had more principles Armstead May 2016 #157
And Clinton and Obama likewise whatthehey May 2016 #158
You're either getting hoodwinked or you're doing the hoodwinking. Broward May 2016 #4
You need to realize what the right wing actually is. CrowCityDem May 2016 #5
The Right wing is pro War ,pro Wall Street, against Single Payer , just like Hillary. bahrbearian May 2016 #8
Bernie voted to remove Saddam, build F-35s, deregulate derivatives. He's a conservative!! CrowCityDem May 2016 #12
Lol and Hillary is a Progressive who like to get things done" Like War, Coups, and Donations bahrbearian May 2016 #16
That kind of stuff is only conservative... TwilightZone May 2016 #17
Remind me of the Vote Bernie made to remove Saddam was It the IRW? bahrbearian May 2016 #21
1999. Authored by Rumsfeld. Made regime change the official US stance. CrowCityDem May 2016 #22
but regime change does not, nor does it always, come through war. Saddam was a Exilednight May 2016 #28
A conservative Democratic Socialist? Twisting political categories to avoid the painful truth about Kip Humphrey May 2016 #26
I'm saying you can't use two positions to determine the whole. CrowCityDem May 2016 #46
Could it be a Democratic supply sider? immoderate May 2016 #9
They are playing their assigned role. Nothing more. arcane1 May 2016 #20
OK , you convinced me. bahrbearian May 2016 #6
And yet you think Bernie and his supporters are fringe Left wing? -none May 2016 #7
Heh. Bernie is just LBJ with a 4-barrel carburetor. Eleanors38 May 2016 #77
I do not support her in the Primary SheenaR May 2016 #10
Comparing us to Europe doesn't work. Different people, differing issues. CrowCityDem May 2016 #11
I disagree with you SheenaR May 2016 #13
Bernie is the center? Who in this country is to his left? CrowCityDem May 2016 #18
I didn't say center SheenaR May 2016 #23
We don't live in vaccuums. CrowCityDem May 2016 #45
This isn't family feud. Just because we have no serious left... arendt May 2016 #53
If there is no, as you put it, serious left, the center is not where you think it is. CrowCityDem May 2016 #58
If left,right, and center mean different things in different places, they are meaningless words. arendt May 2016 #63
I didn't say the center's 'ok', just that it's the center. Center is a measurement, not a philosophy CrowCityDem May 2016 #66
A measurement is not a policy. arendt May 2016 #69
Liberal is immediately to the left of center. Conservative immediately to the right AgingAmerican May 2016 #106
There are 3 centres. The center between the Republicans and the Democrats. And then the two Seeinghope May 2016 #116
We have anti-business leftists who oppose capitalism. senz May 2016 #78
The American center isn't far enough left. forjusticethunders May 2016 #34
Well, can't say you're wrong. Chris Hedges agrees with you. arendt May 2016 #54
I want a left that: forjusticethunders May 2016 #84
First off, read history as to why that has happened nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #86
"The Turner Raids" Sparkly May 2016 #130
1917 nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #145
There is some overlap in our positions, but... arendt May 2016 #126
Tell us how you really feel forjusticethunders May 2016 #128
The issues are real. Identity politics is the wrong approach. arendt May 2016 #138
"no rule as to when", not "no real as to when" n/t arendt May 2016 #139
Minefield ahead...oh well nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #151
When we're past racism and sexism, that might make sense. Sparkly May 2016 #131
IP is not going to get us past racism arendt May 2016 #140
This. All of this. vintx May 2016 #132
From where you stand that is, she looks lefty to you All in it together May 2016 #29
Pro fracking AgingAmerican May 2016 #31
Not to mention... Ferd Berfel May 2016 #39
also not to mention, bvar22 May 2016 #95
translation; Ferd Berfel May 2016 #98
"Corporations are Free at last!" reddread May 2016 #159
+1 Proud Liberal Dem May 2016 #36
They are Right Wing by definition, their goals and their actions, their only "moderation" lies in Dragonfli May 2016 #40
That's fine. It doesn't change that Hillary is to the left of TODAY'S center. CrowCityDem May 2016 #49
I disagree, besides, you are CHANGING DEFINITION AGAIN did you not read the polls that refute even Dragonfli May 2016 #52
Since there is no set philosophy from the "center party", of course I meant the center of our two. CrowCityDem May 2016 #56
More rhetorical bullshit arendt May 2016 #55
Jim Crow used to be 'centrist' policy. Politics changes with time. CrowCityDem May 2016 #59
Who cares. Jim Crow was heinous wherever on your phony L/R/C scale you put it. arendt May 2016 #71
I'm not defending anything. CrowCityDem May 2016 #72
I don't think there are "center" policies. arendt May 2016 #73
So you can't define the center, and yet it can never shift? Yeah, that's a solid argument. CrowCityDem May 2016 #75
It doesn't shift because it doesn't exist/ arendt May 2016 #76
OMG!!!! Not "Goodbye FOREVER". Crushing blow. nt COLGATE4 May 2016 #101
At least you tried. Reality doesn't matter cause they're with her. nt vintx May 2016 #133
They appear to have constructed their own reality, it really is quite fascinating in a detached way Dragonfli May 2016 #143
There is no such thing as 'todays' center AgingAmerican May 2016 #107
Actually what it does not change is that HRC nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #146
Yeah, because that platform... CrowCityDem May 2016 #150
Because of actions like pushing for trade agreements that benefit nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #153
Here is an objective, unbiased analysis from politicalcompass.org tabasco May 2016 #47
That compares us to Europe. I'm talking about American politics. CrowCityDem May 2016 #48
Again, this is the equivalent of "moral relativism" arendt May 2016 #61
Everything is relative. CrowCityDem May 2016 #64
Fine. Then, from where I stand, you are a complete propagandist. arendt May 2016 #70
We actually have an active communist party in the United States nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #85
"And political science paradigms are not dependent on relative things." Thank you for stating that. Dragonfli May 2016 #120
You welcome and RWers used to do this as well nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #144
Right versus left are universal standards, not "U.S. standards" tabasco May 2016 #74
No, that puts our politics in a standard political science structure nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #82
Political science is not that malleable nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #79
What does "Moderate" mean? AgingAmerican May 2016 #105
They're moderate all right - LiberalElite May 2016 #161
This genie is out of the bottle... this party will change forever when Sanders is denied yourpaljoey May 2016 #2
The timid and Republican lite Democrats simply create a bigger monster Republican Party all the time highprincipleswork May 2016 #14
Our party is indergoing a left-wing realignment. Long overdue. n/t Orsino May 2016 #15
??? With Hillary leading the party? BillZBubb May 2016 #30
Despite Clinton's likely win. Orsino May 2016 #33
That's right. Not all at once, but it is already underway. And now that Sanders has silvershadow May 2016 #57
my hope Fairgo May 2016 #81
I disagree. nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #147
It's still happening to our party. Orsino May 2016 #148
There is a nasty sub rosa conflict nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #149
Recommended! H2O Man May 2016 #19
Any compliment from you I consider high praise as your posts have always been so well thought out Dragonfli May 2016 #42
My thanks to both of you, both of you organize your thoughts and write them down mrdmk May 2016 #99
H2O and Dragon... Optimism May 2016 #115
Excellent job you two. n/t JimDandy May 2016 #152
This message was self-deleted by its author potisok May 2016 #51
Liberal and progressive ideals are much, much more important than the Party. [n/t] Maedhros May 2016 #24
Just because Bernie gets support from primarily white voters in conservative areas ... Onlooker May 2016 #25
The Democratic Party started to leave me when I was told it was a big tent that included Rick djean111 May 2016 #27
I came to the conclusion that the democratic party is not my party so I left it. Autumn May 2016 #32
This is the Party's strategy: Maedhros May 2016 #109
Jamie Dimon whipping votes on the Senate floor at Obama's behest was the final straw. Autumn May 2016 #111
I left in 2009 or so, came back for Bernie, will leave ASAP. Maedhros May 2016 #114
Barney Frank, Wall Street banker, in charge of DNC rules committe? amborin May 2016 #35
Laughable and insulting Dem2 May 2016 #37
LOL!! "Right wing realignment" Sparkly May 2016 #50
I think it is going through a "progressive vs. elitist" realignment even more than a "right vs. left Attorney in Texas May 2016 #60
That sounds about right to me! Seeinghope May 2016 #117
Better idea: The losers could start their own party. The majority wins in this Country. Lil Missy May 2016 #62
Right, and I can start my own car company in my garage. arendt May 2016 #67
Take heart. They may take the radical step of redesigning the donut logo and.... Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #65
I've decided I will no longer aid and abet the rightward drift of the party by voting for DINOs. Arugula Latte May 2016 #68
++ Vincardog May 2016 #93
Remember the day when it was Democrats that were blocking women from voting? ViseGrip May 2016 #80
and another three general party realignments. nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #87
Not sure many want to question it. oldandhappy May 2016 #83
Seems like you should have done some introspection about the 'revolution' -BEFORE the 'revolution'. randome May 2016 #88
Great post! K&R Sky Masterson May 2016 #89
K&R We need representation, period. felix_numinous May 2016 #91
I have to admit that I stopped registering Democrat after Bill Clinton's first term. bjo59 May 2016 #92
MEGACHURCH MOMS! Warren DeMontague May 2016 #94
Excellent Essay, Dragonfli bvar22 May 2016 #96
I'm sure you were quite pleased with my FDR quote in response to a sock that claims that Hillary Dragonfli May 2016 #110
this sure ain't the party of elana i am May 2016 #113
I ask myself that every time I visit this site now vintx May 2016 #134
Good post we should have had this conversation after the conservative Clinton administration. I am Todays_Illusion May 2016 #97
Well said! Dark n Stormy Knight May 2016 #100
So Long, Centrist Democrats BlueStateLib May 2016 #102
Message auto-removed Name removed May 2016 #103
you had the chance to 're-align' the party bigtree May 2016 #104
I did not, nor have ever wished to realign the party as a Right wing fiscal party that Resembles Dragonfli May 2016 #108
you sure talk some twaddle bigtree May 2016 #122
Pretty long winded answer tio dance your way out of falsely claiming I wanted a party realignment Dragonfli May 2016 #135
So basically you're saying that you reject reality and substitute it with your own? vintx May 2016 #137
Yes we must. Optimism May 2016 #112
Another OUTSTANDING OP Dragonfli! 2banon May 2016 #118
You are most welcome, all I do is simply speak my mind, I have payed attention for decades /nt Dragonfli May 2016 #119
Yes, I believe Bernie supporters are probably the most highly informed of the entire electorate. 2banon May 2016 #127
Call me a "moderate" for saying this if you will, but... moriah May 2016 #121
K&R.. disillusioned73 May 2016 #123
Kicked and recommended! Enthusiast May 2016 #124
THIS is what so many Democrats today don't grok. At ALL. Triana May 2016 #125
So incredibly well thought out, I wish more people saw this dynamic for what it is. vintx May 2016 #129
Thank you so much for this thread. myrna minx May 2016 #136
It is not a "right wing alignment." It is a right (as in correct) alignment. The days of just Jitter65 May 2016 #141
You didn't read the OP, it is coming from politicians and corporate "think tanks" Dragonfli May 2016 #142
Yes, we must. LWolf May 2016 #160
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Mustn't we reevaluate our...»Reply #40