2016 Postmortem

Sen. Walter Sobchak

(8,692 posts)

121. Then it's an easy trade-off

Reply to bravenak (Reply #112)

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 11:19 PM

Nov 2016

Vocal proponents of trendy nonsense bring us nothing.

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Which group of reliable democrats are YOU willing to lose to get White Men to vote Democratic? [View all] bravenak Nov 2016 OP

Happy to rec this mcar Nov 2016 #1

Or like we cannot get 100000 more votes after four years of donald bravenak Nov 2016 #7

Whoah, Trump/Manson matchup is uncanny. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2016 #222

Creepy as hell huh? bravenak Dec 2016 #224

Can't some liberal billionaires relocate a couple hundred thousand Democratic voters to where they deurbano Nov 2016 #44

No kidding. LisaM Nov 2016 #50

Excuse me, but NOBODY here thinks its NOT racist Ken Burch Nov 2016 #2

There are people here advocating abandoning one group or another. Renew Deal Nov 2016 #4

This message was self-deleted by its author Ken Burch Nov 2016 #14

Embracing Trump supporters is, by definition, an abandonment of minority Democrats EffieBlack Dec 2016 #161

those are privileged heaven05 Dec 2016 #184

yes they are heaven05 Dec 2016 #181

Where? sfwriter Nov 2016 #21

Could you provide a link to people recommending that? That would be reprehensible. nt el_bryanto Nov 2016 #25

I've now heard of few people who have made bigoted comments and suggestions. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #109

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #60

You'll be waiting a long time melman Dec 2016 #146

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #151

People here are certainly doing that, Ken mcar Nov 2016 #19

What's being said is that we need to address class in addition to bigotry. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #29

Yes, let's walk and chew gum at the same time mcar Nov 2016 #32

And she didn't really try to sell the economic message at all LostOne4Ever Nov 2016 #84

Do you really not get it? EffieBlack Dec 2016 #162

In that case, it can be about making non-voters into voters. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #174

We need fewer than a hundred thousand more votes in swing states to win next time bravenak Dec 2016 #182

We're not that far apart. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #189

No reason to waste your energy trying to reason with insanity bravenak Dec 2016 #192

Well, I hope so. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #196

He sure is. But not a politician. bravenak Dec 2016 #198

This has been all over today mcar Dec 2016 #233

My god, who the hell is saying "embrace hate"? This needs to STOP. RBInMaine Nov 2016 #31

I live in rural RW Florida mcar Nov 2016 #33

That is not what is being said Lithos Dec 2016 #156

I agree with those who say we should find a different term than "identity politics". Ken Burch Dec 2016 #202

Actually, plenty of people do EffieBlack Dec 2016 #160

I'm not ever going to tell you to not attack racists. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #175

That's not the choice Renew Deal Nov 2016 #3

They don't care about policies that promote a better life for all bravenak Nov 2016 #5

We care about a better life for all Renew Deal Nov 2016 #10

And our policies already promote that bravenak Nov 2016 #11

Thats not the choice you're offering Renew Deal Nov 2016 #17

They dont CARE what I offer bravenak Nov 2016 #20

And "All Lives Matter" too.... n/t TygrBright Nov 2016 #53

We don't have to get ALL white men. Just about 14% of them. rzemanfl Nov 2016 #6

We just need 150000 more votes than last time in certain states bravenak Nov 2016 #9

Dumbasses in hopelessly red states would feel neglected. rzemanfl Nov 2016 #18

I chose other. SomethingNew Nov 2016 #8

Wtf. Is this strawman week? progressoid Nov 2016 #12

Yes bravenak Nov 2016 #15

That's not a strawman. You go after the votes of the troglodites who were willing to Squinch Nov 2016 #52

Well considering that multiple requests have been made to verify that people here are mythology Nov 2016 #86

+1 progressoid Dec 2016 #167

Where is the "None of the above" option? LonePirate Nov 2016 #13

That is other bravenak Nov 2016 #16

Democratic Party Internal Struggle for Power? jalan48 Nov 2016 #22

The same folks are still in the same positions as usual bravenak Nov 2016 #23

That could change with more "Identity Politics". No? jalan48 Nov 2016 #26

Targeting people of white identity is NOT identity politics? bravenak Nov 2016 #35

No-white people are not an "Identity" group currently. jalan48 Nov 2016 #43

White is an identity if black is an identity bravenak Nov 2016 #48

What does dealing with race have to do with it? Why do we have to "lose" a group? jalan48 Nov 2016 #56

You are the one that seems annoyed by identity politics bravenak Nov 2016 #62

Not annoyed-I don't think it's an effective strategy. This election was a good example. jalan48 Nov 2016 #69

But you don't mind white identity politics, because to you white is just a political status. Got it! bravenak Nov 2016 #71

What is white identity politics? jalan48 Nov 2016 #78

What is it? It is the standard of american politics. White centered politics. bravenak Nov 2016 #81

What is "white centered politics"? Do you think it's happening in our Party? jalan48 Nov 2016 #87

The republican party is a white centered party bravenak Nov 2016 #89

I agree with what you say about Republicans. jalan48 Nov 2016 #98

I think our voters were depressed by the non stop positive focus on Donald and the constant bravenak Nov 2016 #99

The media handed the election to Trump. Personally, I don't think it was all because of ratings. jalan48 Nov 2016 #107

Yep, we do have to give them our pitch bravenak Nov 2016 #108

Trump used white identity politics with a shit tonne of overt racism Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #148

tRump won the white male vote by appealing to racism, sexism, xenophobia, anti-semitism ... etherealtruth Nov 2016 #24

Me neither. I also will not participate in that. And I always vote bravenak Nov 2016 #36

Far too many aren't aware of how wide spread... NCTraveler Nov 2016 #27

I don't do polls.. yallerdawg Nov 2016 #28

You totally and completely miss the point. Many voted for Trump who are NOT "racist." Your thinking RBInMaine Nov 2016 #30

Who voted to deport muslims and mexicans and are not racist? bravenak Nov 2016 #37

How are the elections since 2008 going for you? Red Oak Nov 2016 #38

My state got gay marriage and legal weed since 08 bravenak Nov 2016 #41

And yet they were okay with voting for a Man who campaigned on a racist xenophobic platform.. JHan Dec 2016 #226

If they voted for a racist, BlueMTexpat Dec 2016 #229

None, nor is it necessary quaker bill Nov 2016 #34

This is a BS post that just continues to tear the Democratic party apart Red Oak Nov 2016 #39

Fortunately, it doesn't work that way Dem2 Nov 2016 #40

Maybe you like the looks of the red/blue post-election map, but I don't. democrank Nov 2016 #42

So who are you willing to give up to appeal to rural white men? bravenak Nov 2016 #46

Become a bigger tent. MarvinGardens Nov 2016 #114

Rural whites stopped voting democratic after the civil rights act was passed bravenak Nov 2016 #115

The Governor's race in NC disproves your assertion. appal_jack Dec 2016 #169

And BLACK VOTERS bravenak Dec 2016 #173

Why yes; black voters were absolutely essential to this Dem victory. nt appal_jack Dec 2016 #185

Again, I'm not willing to give up anyone. democrank Dec 2016 #152

I'm fine with going after non voters as opposed to Trump voters bravenak Dec 2016 #153

Good ideas, bravenak. democrank Dec 2016 #155

None Bear Creek Nov 2016 #45

So only focus on money, ignore the issues that effect or ability to achieve equality like social bravenak Nov 2016 #47

Social Justice Bear Creek Nov 2016 #58

That is not social justice by any means. Look it up bravenak Nov 2016 #63

Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #72

Not it is not bravenak Nov 2016 #73

Definition Bear Creek Nov 2016 #77

You missed the opportunities and really a dictionary does not do it justice bravenak Nov 2016 #79

You told him to look it up GummyBearz Dec 2016 #199

I didn't say where. Just like when I say look up Lysistrata I don't suggest using wikipedia bravenak Dec 2016 #200

We don't need to sell one group down the river to appeal to another... PatsFan87 Nov 2016 #49

I wouldn't mind giving up the Wall Street vote shawn703 Nov 2016 #51

Other: People who use false choices. Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2016 #54

Amen. Canadaexpat2 Dec 2016 #168

I know more white men who voted for Clinton than voted for Herr Drumpf. greatauntoftriplets Nov 2016 #55

Truth bravenak Nov 2016 #64

If you can't beat them sarisataka Nov 2016 #57

Pretty sure this is the textbook definition of a false dichotomy. SpareribSP Nov 2016 #59

Not really. It's just based on history. bravenak Nov 2016 #65

Why do you assume we'd have to drop some group SpareribSP Nov 2016 #101

Because many of them are opposed to equality for all bravenak Nov 2016 #106

You do not have to compromise you values, nor should you SpareribSP Nov 2016 #111

Trump woo'd them by being racist. It worked. Nothing more to do about that bravenak Nov 2016 #113

[Citation Needed] SpareribSP Nov 2016 #120

Not all white people voted for Trump bravenak Nov 2016 #122

Sure SpareribSP Nov 2016 #123

Nope. I am set on the fact that voting for an unabashed racist makes you racist bravenak Nov 2016 #124

Sure SpareribSP Nov 2016 #125

Because thats what appeals to them bravenak Dec 2016 #126

A few things about this SpareribSP Dec 2016 #132

We are not talking about all white people. We are talking whites that voted for Trump bravenak Dec 2016 #134

And of those SpareribSP Dec 2016 #137

You seriously do not see the hypocrisy in your posts? You wish for the demise of old white males .. cliffside Dec 2016 #138

Did you resign up just for little old me? bravenak Dec 2016 #140

Do not flatter yourself too much, Trump does that and it unbecoming. nt cliffside Dec 2016 #147

You still goin? bravenak Dec 2016 #149

K&R heaven05 Nov 2016 #61

It's ridiculous bravenak Nov 2016 #68

Dunno. White women voted for Trump over Hillary by a 9 point margin, 52-43 progree Nov 2016 #66

Yeah. But they are swing voters, not fifty year reliable repubs like the men bravenak Nov 2016 #76

I hope so, but they are not "swing voters" -- they voted for Romney by a 14 point margin and progree Nov 2016 #82

Get the "white men" vote and not lose any reliable Democrats. earthside Nov 2016 #67

We already do that. Or do you think we only give benefits to certain groups and not offer our bravenak Nov 2016 #70

Benefits? earthside Nov 2016 #85

What do you think economic growth is? It is a benefit we recieve living in this nation. bravenak Nov 2016 #88

Looks like at least one guy up there was honest about his feelings. Starry Messenger Nov 2016 #74

I know, right? bravenak Nov 2016 #75

How are they even allowed to vote? johnp3907 Dec 2016 #234

Nobody. Buckeye_Democrat Nov 2016 #80

All the racist rednecks I know wanted to vote in the general for Bernie. harun Nov 2016 #83

You're shitten me ismnotwasm Nov 2016 #118

Doesn't that make Bernie so much more appealing to you? It does for me. bravenak Nov 2016 #119

all dems have to do is stop ignoring rw radio certainot Nov 2016 #90

We need to stop ignoring that and get some loud unapologeitc people on the airwaves bravenak Nov 2016 #91

Amen. One of the best ways for rich Dems to spend their money progree Nov 2016 #94

That sucks. We might need to start a DU web based show online bravenak Nov 2016 #96

have to stop letting our universities support rw radio certainot Nov 2016 #116

Thats true. We let them get away with too much at our expense bravenak Nov 2016 #117

How about a poll on how we fix the broken Fourth Estate? SleeplessinSoCal Nov 2016 #92

It's not a fourth estate, it's a fifth column. nt Xipe Totec Nov 2016 #95

Right on Xipe Totec! SleeplessinSoCal Dec 2016 #127

Do whatever kind of poll you like bravenak Nov 2016 #97

reliable democrats? Xipe Totec Nov 2016 #93

Other. Martin Eden Nov 2016 #100

KnR Hekate Nov 2016 #102

K&R! DemonGoddess Nov 2016 #103

Bankers Bad Thoughts Nov 2016 #104

Good one bravenak Nov 2016 #105

Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #110

Very small group of people bravenak Nov 2016 #112

Then it's an easy trade-off Sen. Walter Sobchak Nov 2016 #121

This is fabulous! betsuni Dec 2016 #128

Fri Jun 6, 2014 "After you old guys are gone the rest of us will make up the new majority." cliffside Dec 2016 #129

That was an all time great post of mine bravenak Dec 2016 #130

Seriously? Do you not see that dividing people by race and age is not something to be championed? cliffside Dec 2016 #131

It was truly great bravenak Dec 2016 #133

"the old white men who are standing in the way of progress.." cliffside Dec 2016 #141

Nothing better to do? bravenak Dec 2016 #142

I call them as as I see them, just as others did with your divisive posts in 2014 ... cliffside Dec 2016 #145

You just signed up to complain about my post from almost three years ago? How. Normal. bravenak Dec 2016 #150

I Agree. johnp3907 Dec 2016 #201

It is not only white men who voted against Mrs. Clinton, a lot of women did too. akbacchus_BC Dec 2016 #135

I never was much for polls, I just dont trust them bravenak Dec 2016 #136

Your election system is flawed, it should be proportional representation. It baffles me that a akbacchus_BC Dec 2016 #139

Trump won a greater % of the Hispanic and African-American vote than Romney. MadDAsHell Dec 2016 #171

So? She got over two millions more votes bravenak Dec 2016 #177

Ok, so you're saying we should give up on white men, African-Americans, AND Hispanics? MadDAsHell Dec 2016 #179

I say we should GIVE UP ON REPUBLICANS bravenak Dec 2016 #180

I'm not willing to trade ANY MFM008 Dec 2016 #143

Agreed bravenak Dec 2016 #144

Some of those reliable Democrats turned out to be not so reliable oberliner Dec 2016 #154

Then why aren't we wooing them instead of wooing Trump voters? Nt gollygee Dec 2016 #163

Is it possible to craft a message that would have broad appeal? oberliner Dec 2016 #165

She would have won if we got a hundred thousand more voters in swing states bravenak Dec 2016 #176

She could have won in an electoral college landslide oberliner Dec 2016 #231

Which ones did Obama sacrifice? Obama won, so based on your premise he had to Exilednight Dec 2016 #157

None! Fuck 'em. nt LexVegas Dec 2016 #158

I could have written this. But I didn't. You did. And I love you for it! EffieBlack Dec 2016 #159

The Democratic Party is a big tent party and cannot throw away groups Gothmog Dec 2016 #164

None. I'm a white guy. Rec, nt. Mc Mike Dec 2016 #166

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #170

I get your point, and it is a clever rhetorical mechanism hueymahl Dec 2016 #172

no, the OP is correct heaven05 Dec 2016 #178

Yup ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #183

I can promise you not all Trump voters are racist hueymahl Dec 2016 #188

Hell no they aren't heaven05 Dec 2016 #191

If I had to choose a particular demographic to abandon, to get some white folk voting, it'd have to Glassunion Dec 2016 #186

It would certainly sacrifice my vote if the party starts pandering to Trump voters bravenak Dec 2016 #187

Wrong metric....you don't have to give up one to get the other... Nancyswidower Dec 2016 #190

Yes you do. To pander to them you'd need to ignore minority concerns and shut us up bravenak Dec 2016 #197

Bullshit...you are angry..I get that Nancyswidower Dec 2016 #205

They do and you can deny it but you are now letting them set the reality bravenak Dec 2016 #207

I'm not letting any one set reality....EXCEPT for the the GE... Nancyswidower Dec 2016 #210

Yes it was. The tea party was racist as fuck against the muslim kenyan in the whitehouse bravenak Dec 2016 #211

More hyperble....do you know anything about the "Tea Party"..I studied it...wasn't racist based. Nancyswidower Dec 2016 #216

Yes it was bravenak Dec 2016 #217

And we had GWBush Nazi posters...Here we allowed callin a POSTUS Chimpy... Nancyswidower Dec 2016 #220

GWB acted like he was one so we called him one. That was not race based like witchdoctor posters bravenak Dec 2016 #221

That makes it better??? Do you not see the hypocrisy... Nancyswidower Dec 2016 #225

Nazi is not a race it is an ideology bravenak Dec 2016 #227

Never claimed it was.... Nancyswidower Dec 2016 #230

Broad brush much? Not everyone would refuse to belong to a club that allows white men. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2016 #193

I would if it was a political club and they were republican white men bravenak Dec 2016 #194

The limousine ones GummyBearz Dec 2016 #195

corporate dems and war mongers Lunabell Dec 2016 #203

... GummyBearz Dec 2016 #212

whites had no problem voting for Reagan Repubs radius777 Dec 2016 #213

NONE of them Brave! WE ARE the Democratic base, WE ARE THE LEFT! Maru Kitteh Dec 2016 #204

I also refuse to step aside so they can get served first bravenak Dec 2016 #206

Racists. Qutzupalotl Dec 2016 #208

I should have made that an option bravenak Dec 2016 #209

the berniebot alt-left has alot in common w/trumper alt-right, radius777 Dec 2016 #214

They are all super dooper nostalgic for 'better times' bravenak Dec 2016 #215

Exactly. the old FDR Dem party was a Dixiecrat party radius777 Dec 2016 #218

I agree with you completely bravenak Dec 2016 #219

Thank you for posting (and bravenak, too) frazzled Dec 2016 #223

None! BlueMTexpat Dec 2016 #228

Me too. I'm done with them bravenak Dec 2016 #232