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Congratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
Democratic Primaries
In reply to the discussion: NYT: Biden's son's dealings with Ukraine and Trump/Gulliani plan to capitalize [View all]highplainsdem
(49,005 posts)8. This is a garbage story that's been floated by Faux News, especially Hannity, and even less credible
Last edited Thu May 2, 2019, 01:51 AM - Edit history (1)
RW media for a while, trying to make something of the Obama administration insisting the Ukraine government get rid of a corrupt general prosecutor (equivalent to our attorney general).
The actual facts, from Foreign Policy, October 30, 2016:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/10/30/what-will-ukraine-do-without-joe-biden-putin-war-kiev-clinton-trump/
No one in the U.S. government has wielded more influence over Ukraine than Vice President Joe Biden. As the Obama administrations point person on Ukraine policy, he has rallied support for Kiev in the face of Russian military intervention and cultivated a personal rapport with its leaders. But he has delivered tough love as well, delaying financial aid more than once over concerns about rampant corruption.
-snip-
Bidens brand of tough love became more pronounced as the old ways of Ukrainian politics resumed. Despite a series of measures to increase government transparency and salvage the countrys teetering economy, Kiev began to slow and in some cases completely halt carrying out anti-corruption reforms.
Public dissatisfaction was growing in late 2015 with Poroshenkos choice for general prosecutor: Viktor Shokin, a veteran of Ukrainian politics and a close associate of the president. Shokin fumbled the corruption case of a former Yanukovych crony and let him flee the country.
The position of general prosecutor, who is appointed by the president, enjoys outsized importance in Ukraine and is often used to exert pressure on rivals and cut deals for political and commercial gains. The Maidan revolution was supposed to bring an end to this type of horse-trading, but Shokin served as a reminder that little had changed. He reinforced that perception by hindering an investigation into two high-ranking state prosecutors arrested on corruption charges and after Economy Minister Aivaras Abromavicius cited him by name before quitting in protest over the delayed reforms.
Dismayed by Poroshenkos backtracking, the White House withheld $1 billion in loan guarantees until Shokin was fired. Biden delivered that message directly to Poroshenko over the phone.
Petro, youre not getting your billion dollars, Biden recalled telling the president in an interview with the Atlantic. Its OK, you can keep the [prosecutor] general. Just understandwere not paying if you do.
-snip-
Bidens brand of tough love became more pronounced as the old ways of Ukrainian politics resumed. Despite a series of measures to increase government transparency and salvage the countrys teetering economy, Kiev began to slow and in some cases completely halt carrying out anti-corruption reforms.
Public dissatisfaction was growing in late 2015 with Poroshenkos choice for general prosecutor: Viktor Shokin, a veteran of Ukrainian politics and a close associate of the president. Shokin fumbled the corruption case of a former Yanukovych crony and let him flee the country.
The position of general prosecutor, who is appointed by the president, enjoys outsized importance in Ukraine and is often used to exert pressure on rivals and cut deals for political and commercial gains. The Maidan revolution was supposed to bring an end to this type of horse-trading, but Shokin served as a reminder that little had changed. He reinforced that perception by hindering an investigation into two high-ranking state prosecutors arrested on corruption charges and after Economy Minister Aivaras Abromavicius cited him by name before quitting in protest over the delayed reforms.
Dismayed by Poroshenkos backtracking, the White House withheld $1 billion in loan guarantees until Shokin was fired. Biden delivered that message directly to Poroshenko over the phone.
Petro, youre not getting your billion dollars, Biden recalled telling the president in an interview with the Atlantic. Its OK, you can keep the [prosecutor] general. Just understandwere not paying if you do.
From the Irish Times, March 29, 2016, "EU hails sacking of Ukraines prosecutor Viktor Shokin":
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/eu-hails-sacking-of-ukraine-s-prosecutor-viktor-shokin-1.2591190
The European Union has welcomed the dismissal of Ukraines scandal-ridden prosecutor general and called for a crackdown on corruption, even as the countrys political crisis deepened over efforts to form a new ruling coalition and appoint a new prime minister.
Ukraines parliament voted overwhelmingly to fire Viktor Shokin, ridding the beleaguered prosecutors office of a figure who is accused of blocking major cases against allies and influential figures and stymying moves to root out graft.
-snip-
Mr Tombinski said the EU was also concerned about the resignation or dismissal of several reform-oriented prosecutors and reports that Mr Shokins office was investigating a highly-respected anti-corruption group an obvious reference to Kievs Anti-Corruption Action Centre, which had fiercely criticised Mr Shokin.
In what appeared to be his last act before dismissal, Mr Shokin sacked his deputy, Davit Sakvarelidze, who had repeatedly called for his boss to be fired.
-snip-
Ukraines parliament voted overwhelmingly to fire Viktor Shokin, ridding the beleaguered prosecutors office of a figure who is accused of blocking major cases against allies and influential figures and stymying moves to root out graft.
-snip-
Mr Tombinski said the EU was also concerned about the resignation or dismissal of several reform-oriented prosecutors and reports that Mr Shokins office was investigating a highly-respected anti-corruption group an obvious reference to Kievs Anti-Corruption Action Centre, which had fiercely criticised Mr Shokin.
In what appeared to be his last act before dismissal, Mr Shokin sacked his deputy, Davit Sakvarelidze, who had repeatedly called for his boss to be fired.
-snip-
Trump and his supporters are now trying to push a conspiracy theory that Biden used American aid to Ukraine to shut down an investigation that might have eventually involved his son Hunter. Never mind that the European Union and many in Ukraine knew just how corrupt Shokin was.
I'm disgusted that the NYT's Ken Vogel went with this non-story. At least he shows the Trump administration is pushing this, but still...
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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NYT: Biden's son's dealings with Ukraine and Trump/Gulliani plan to capitalize [View all]
Laura PourMeADrink
May 2019
OP
Unlike Trump, Biden has shown us tax returns. We know Biden isn't dependent on Russia.
SunSeeker
May 2019
#5
Yup, NYT is publishing a false story against a Dem in a pathetic attempt to show "balance."
SunSeeker
May 2019
#65
This is a garbage story that's been floated by Faux News, especially Hannity, and even less credible
highplainsdem
May 2019
#8
There is nothing in the Democratic camp that can compare to 1% of the malfeasance among Republicans
dalton99a
May 2019
#13
Wouldn't surprise me if Giuliani has been offering bribes of some type to try to create problems for
highplainsdem
May 2019
#14
Tad Devine was negotiating to continue work with Manafort in Ukraine as late as 2014, the year
highplainsdem
May 2019
#12
Not to me...see the Russians supported Sanders according to Mueller in 16 somewhat so
Demsrule86
May 2019
#59
You already support Biden so of course it's not a big deal to you. But to those swing voters
progressoid
May 2019
#66
Here's the thing. Joe Biden etc ain't gonna spend the next 2 years lying about it. nt
UniteFightBack
May 2019
#16
No. And this unfair attack on Biden might very well lead President Obama and other world leaders
highplainsdem
May 2019
#17
Trump's personal lawyer is conspiring with a foreign govt for advantage over a rival candidate
muriel_volestrangler
May 2019
#21
Another example of the swamp dweller pointing out an opponent's scuffed shoe
bigbrother05
May 2019
#29
No one cared because everyone knew Shokin was corrupt and Biden and Obama did the right thing.
highplainsdem
May 2019
#36
well yeah, but to pretend it didn't happen is foolish, sweeping it under the rug won't help
Baclava
May 2019
#37
I have no problem with anyone talking about what actually happened. I object to the RW lie
highplainsdem
May 2019
#40
Hoarse Whisperer tweet: Two weeks ago, Ken Vogel of the NYT used emails hacked by Russia in a sleazy
highplainsdem
May 2019
#41
So this is the incredibly scandalous matter that is enveloping Joe Biden? Let's see:
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2019
#42
People are not seeing the damage this will do, along with other things in Biden's record.
marylandblue
May 2019
#43
If course they will go after Pete, but I back him because so far he has good answers
marylandblue
May 2019
#48
Of course you don't, you've already decided that Biden is the only possibility
marylandblue
May 2019
#72
Scathing thread about what's wrong with NYT story by expert on oligarchs/kleptocrats:
highplainsdem
May 2019
#49
Yep. This is so obvious. I feel their desperation as Bernie facades in the primary.
Demsrule86
May 2019
#62
This story is all rightie sources other than the Times bullshit. Joe will be just fine.
Demsrule86
May 2019
#55