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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

elder phd

(18 posts)
156. some observations
Sun Feb 23, 2020, 01:53 AM
Feb 2020

first, the gloom and doom around here has not just been tonight.
lordy, folks; i haven't posted in hardly ever cuz the tone here is just ...gross.
a bunch of snippy, nasty, petty, whiners, most of youse (sorry, but true)
and the largest dose has always -- every day i've bothered to glance -- been aimed at bernie.

suggesting we have perhaps a lot of sour grapes hillary peeps here?
(have to say, she has not exactly presented the best example in grace and good will in this regard, but whatev'.)
honestly, nothing better to do? you'd think he stole the nomination from her!
some of you lob accusations and innuendo, but never with any substance.
what is your reasoning for such vitriol? can you articulate that hatred so it makes any sense?

i campaigned for bernie, but voted for hillary. i'll now primary for liz. hey, different strokes. big tent; why i love the dem party.
but what is it with all the poop slinging?
i have yet to come across a single thread here that offers anything resembling substantive debate.
yet lots and lots of nastiness.

the same nastiness i recall from PUMAs in 08. remember those, y'all?

second, not a "real" dem? bernie has for decades been trying to steer the party back to FDR democrats.
which, by the by, brought us all manner of socialist (gasp! clutch yer pearls!) programs, like SSA, WPA, wall street reforms (glass-steagal anyone?), and support for unions, just to name a few. the green new deal is an absolutely exquisite re-rendering of FDR's vision; harper's magazine did a terrific piece on this late last year; check it out, it's inspiring. especially the part about a second bill of rights that includes health and education and a living wage, etc.
any of these ideas sound familiar? these ideas are -- or used to be -- the core of the democratic party!
plus, bernie's always caucused with the dems, just as does senator angus, and bernie has been given committee seats and chairs, inc. budget and the VA.
he's still considered the amendment king in congress for finding ways to get bills passed with bipartisan support.
and he filibustered for over 8hrs in 2010 against keeping the bush tax cuts in place; that speech became a popular book for its lambasting of corporate greed.
all this is just off the top of my head, but i'm sure you can find most of it on google or wikipedia.

but third, how to caution you folks against the gas lighting that's going on? the vitriol here, so thick you can cut it with a knife, is ripe for exploitation by the same infiltrations that infected our precious election process four years ago. don't know where some of the angles presented here come from, but my guess is that neither do most of you who post them. at least, i NEVER see references or citations. we don't have to get all academic about it, but ferchrissake, try to do more than just pull stuff out of various orifices; helps credibility, and might help your own blood pressure.
it's truly important to consider the sources of your comments, and why you'd accept them in the first place.
just as one example, this story about the russians helping bernie's campaign; may i humbly suggest reading some masha gessen to get a sense of just what putin's tactics are about. in a word, chaos. putin could care less who wins here; all he cares about is seeding and breeding distrust and confusion. all he wants is for none of us to trust anyone.
fwiw, i've been a bernie fan since the early 90s; never dreamed he'd run for prez, but glad he did, as he has changed the conversation in the country for the better. and, he has changed the profile of the democratic party for the better. in case you haven't noticed, we're talking about medicare for all and free higher education as a matter of course now, which was scandalous four years ago, and unheard of a decade ago. and now, even polled republicans support it at 47%!
but, and this is key, when i was a youngster, higher education was indeed free in CA, and most state colleges were cheaper than catholic high schools. moreover, healthcare was not motivated by profit, hospitals were not cost centers, and patients were not customers. something happened in the early 80s (gee, wonder what that was, RR?), and both bernie and liz are keenly aware of this shift; they both want to put these rights back into our hands where they belong.
may i suggest some reading: anand giradharadas winners take all, charlotte alter the ones we've been waiting for, these for starters. and then start hanging around more young folks; they are our future and have a keen sense of what's amiss and what we need to be prepared for.
think greta and the march for our lives kids.

fourth, as for the socialism piece, please people; get woke. seriously, the segments of the population that are still scared about this word -- and it is just a damn word!! -- are dying off. that would be my generation, but thankfully i was educated well enough to learn better. bernie's democratic socialism, as noted above, is FDR programs and policies, full stop. and this distinction will be important if/when we all work toward the nominee's election.
and this ties in with the youth; they don't have the same fear experience of socialism that most old fogeys do, and sadly that fear experience was for the most part a trumped up (heh) propaganda program shaped by mccarthyism. i lived on a military base in japan during the 50s, so i know of what i speak.

fifth, just a couple of stray comments here threw me. MI? bernie beat hillary in MI. fwiw.
also, fascism?? bernie?? good lord, y'all, bernie and liz are all about returning the power to US! we, the people!! recovering that power from the greedy corporations. if it's fascism you're worried about, we're pretty much there already under this power-mongering corporatism masquerading as the republican party! in case you haven't noticed. the highly specific and well-articulated programs and policies both bernie and liz offer are precisely the opposite of fascism; the antidote to fascism, if you will. this is precisely why the mainstream establishment folk are so freaked out; they'll lose those big tax breaks and lucrative investment options. sad.

i'll end with this sixth point. some of you have mentioned concern he'll tap tulsi for his VP. really? based on... what exactly? i follow his campaign very closely, and he has given exactly zero indication of anything like that. in fact, i don't think he's even mentioned her at all since she endorsed him four years ago. plus, she's not garnering much support, and he's more likely to select someone with a strong and popular record, and who would help pull in a demographic. just, y'know, logic; this is why i doubt he'll pick liz for that slot.
(*****fun fact: did y'all know he approached liz to run for prez in 16 before he decided to run after she declined.*****)
my bet is he'll choose stacey abrams, which would thrill me to no end, i have to say.
but he'll not likely pass over liz, not at all. i'll also bet he actually establishes an entire agency for her to create and direct, in line with her plan for an anti-corruption program; i'd also love for that to somehow dovetail with something like a truth and reconciliation court along the lines of post-apartheid south africa so we can bring these gawdforsaken blood suckers to account!

so, thank you, ms. c.pixie! for putting this seed of my thoughts out there, and holding to your position with such courage and rigor. would we had more like you here!!
and for those of you pissy folk here gnashing your teeth and rending your garments, remember the PUMAs; not a pretty sight.
better yet, remember your insistence to VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO!!
good grief, you should see how you look from here, all wrinkly noses and persimmon lips, like you smelled your own farts.
fact is, if you don't VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO, you'll expose just what stinking hypocrites you are.

sorry to be so blunt, but i didn't invest all this time and energy to make friends or win popularity contests.
my beat is speaking truth to ...whomever.
and lord knows i've put this off for many many months.
damn, people -- it's like the capacity for circumspection and reality checks have got lost in the DU shuffle.
i mean, c'mon -- we elected barack hussein obama president, ferchrissake!!
most everyone in this crazy mixed up country voted for that kind of hope and change.
we can do it again.
so, i'll leave you with this:



and this (click on text box to go to full quote):

?

check them out if you've the courage to get a clue.
we can all always use a clue.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

realism actually evertonfc Feb 2020 #1
If he becomes the nominee and selects Gabbard as his running mate... AZ8theist Feb 2020 #89
First of all, please accept a gentle chide. This is EXACTLY what Putin wants. PatrickforO Feb 2020 #115
I know this is what Putin wants... AZ8theist Feb 2020 #209
DU's favorite conspiracy theory. MisterFred Feb 2020 #117
Putin won. katmondoo Feb 2020 #168
Putin's goal is division. MisterFred Feb 2020 #181
He would NEVER choose Gabbard budkin Feb 2020 #129
Since he won't release his medical records, he will need to pick a younger, healthier VP. n/t zackymilly Feb 2020 #172
A younger, healthier VP that at least somewhat shares his policies. MisterFred Feb 2020 #182
Tulsi Gabbard??!! JeaneRaye Feb 2020 #186
"Sky is falling" types. John Fante Feb 2020 #201
WHY??? Because of THIS: AZ8theist Feb 2020 #213
Ok... but, dominic savio Feb 2020 #202
I don't care if she's Putin's dream girl or not Warpy Feb 2020 #219
This message was self-deleted by its author Rainbow Droid Feb 2020 #194
I might vote for him greenjar_01 Feb 2020 #2
Then don't let the door hit ya on the way out Jake Stern Feb 2020 #14
You can attack alll you want. Big Blue Marble Feb 2020 #22
Staying home is voting for Trump. Jake Stern Feb 2020 #50
If we don't fight Putin we lose the. Presidency anyway. delisen Feb 2020 #126
And the reverse is equally true quakerboy Feb 2020 #216
It is pretty hard to force enthusiasm PatSeg Feb 2020 #66
I had similar views Catch2.2 Feb 2020 #90
I voted for Hillary PatSeg Feb 2020 #97
I felt the same way Catch2.2 Feb 2020 #102
I'm getting really tired PatSeg Feb 2020 #138
That's my story, too AverageJoe Feb 2020 #157
BLUENOMATTERWHO questionseverything Feb 2020 #162
I view Sanders as the lesser of two evils avebury Feb 2020 #143
You're not alone PatSeg Feb 2020 #152
thank you Skittles Feb 2020 #159
Yes PatSeg Feb 2020 #174
Good but the rest of us are going to have to fight state & local delisen Feb 2020 #121
Exactly and anyone who thinks that won't be used Meowmee Feb 2020 #170
A lot of people feel that way Jakra Feb 2020 #37
"Might"? wackadoo wabbit Feb 2020 #39
Ditto... LovingA2andMI Feb 2020 #40
Trump is trying to destroy America AND the planet... dchill Feb 2020 #58
I'll vote my conscience greenjar_01 Feb 2020 #108
Might isn't an option... Chicago1980 Feb 2020 #76
Then u r a fool, or u support tRump. Period. alittlelark Feb 2020 #105
That's fine, I can sympathize with voting your conscience, but Tien1985 Feb 2020 #131
If you posted that about *any* other candidate, even Bloomberg, your post would be removed. Garrett78 Feb 2020 #135
I doubt it greenjar_01 Feb 2020 #173
Just vote for Trump, then. LS_Editor Feb 2020 #196
I would never vote for Trump greenjar_01 Feb 2020 #197
Why do you say might and not will but? KPN Feb 2020 #204
I say what I think is true greenjar_01 Feb 2020 #205
I'd vote for any rando off the street over Trump, The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2020 #3
+1,000,000. I'd vote for my cat over Trump. I'd also vote for my cat over Sanders. highplainsdem Feb 2020 #10
I, too, would take any of my three cats over Sanders, The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2020 #24
I'd vote for your cat over Sanders!!! PatSeg Feb 2020 #74
Thanks. elleng Feb 2020 #4
we are fucked EveHammond13 Feb 2020 #5
This isn't about us. Most people here will vote for him. It's about those in the swing states maximusveritas Feb 2020 #6
Interesting stat out of Nevada. Claritie Pixie Feb 2020 #11
Bernie ain't beating Trump here in Florida. IluvPitties Feb 2020 #17
Or Michigan... LovingA2andMI Feb 2020 #42
Or Pennsylvania....he's dead in the water apcalc Feb 2020 #49
Last I saw Biden and Sanders about even in Pennsylvania womanofthehills Feb 2020 #111
Just wait til the others drop out. apcalc Feb 2020 #124
As a resident of Pennsylvania, I disagree. Old Crow Feb 2020 #214
I disagree. James48 Feb 2020 #145
We're not talking about Bernie LovingA2andMI Feb 2020 #171
Happy to hear it, and about your blue collar family members. elleng Feb 2020 #21
Blue collar white men in Nevada voted for Bernie? That's significant. SMC22307 Feb 2020 #82
Operation chaos. Demsrule86 Feb 2020 #178
Rush Limbaugh was behind Pennsyvlania white men voting for Obama - twice? SMC22307 Feb 2020 #192
Here's an interesting map of who donated to Bernie in 2016 Withywindle Feb 2020 #125
Great link - Thanks! tecelote Feb 2020 #167
And it is about holding the house and winning the senate. Big Blue Marble Feb 2020 #30
And you will of course present the evidence dpibel Feb 2020 #132
Put me on that NJCher Feb 2020 #139
does anyone stop to think DENVERPOPS Feb 2020 #93
I am voting for a Democrat in the primary musette_sf Feb 2020 #7
I always vote for Democrats... real Democrats. apcalc Feb 2020 #51
me too musette_sf Feb 2020 #53
Yes me too LostinRed Feb 2020 #212
I will vote for him but his presence on the ticket will likely cost my governor his job dsc Feb 2020 #8
Really? Which governor? PatSeg Feb 2020 #81
Cooper dsc Feb 2020 #169
I'm so sorry PatSeg Feb 2020 #190
yes he can only serve two dsc Feb 2020 #191
Well at least that could give him eight years straight PatSeg Feb 2020 #193
My district got a Dem elected to Congress for the first time in 30 years. HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #163
Strange that people exercising their right to vote inspires such hatred. I get it Nanjeanne Feb 2020 #9
There's a long history of angst against Sanders and supporters here at DU Kaleva Feb 2020 #16
That needs to be let go or we lose. Claritie Pixie Feb 2020 #25
What happens in DU will have little to no bearing on what takes place in the primary and general Kaleva Feb 2020 #27
Folks "need" a lot of things... LovingA2andMI Feb 2020 #45
There was a streatch when the only safe place for Hillary supporters was the Hillary Clinton Group Kaleva Feb 2020 #56
There was definitely a lot of drama. Claritie Pixie Feb 2020 #59
We need a candidate who can unify the party radical noodle Feb 2020 #118
He will not be the nominee, imo. apcalc Feb 2020 #86
We do not yet have a nominee radical noodle Feb 2020 #116
You mean, just two days ago when he said Democrats, me, are as bad as Republicans. krissey Feb 2020 #188
have never understood it, elleng Feb 2020 #33
So was Sanders divisive tweet. nt sheshe2 Feb 2020 #35
He won the nomination? IluvPitties Feb 2020 #12
Doom and gloom is part of putin's plan d_b Feb 2020 #13
This forum is nothing but Bernie bashing. OliverQ Feb 2020 #15
Agree! Claritie Pixie Feb 2020 #20
I couldn't agree more. Old Crow Feb 2020 #210
1991 delegates to win...with less than 10% of delegates awarded pbmus Feb 2020 #18
I worry that Bernie as nominee makes it easier for the GOP to steal it. ecstatic Feb 2020 #19
IMO absolutely. They don't need a third candidate with Bernie, but I bet we get one. 58Sunliner Feb 2020 #95
That is an excellent point. defacto7 Feb 2020 #107
I will vote for Bernie if he wins the nomination, Sloumeau Feb 2020 #23
Zactly. We'll all vote for him as the nominee. Duppers Feb 2020 #114
Bam. Jirel Feb 2020 #26
No gloom and doom here. totodeinhere Feb 2020 #28
Let's be realistic if possible... Newest Reality Feb 2020 #29
Thanks but that's not what we mean MaryMagdaline Feb 2020 #31
on Twitter underthematrix Feb 2020 #32
"The white heart wants what the white heart wants." Codeine Feb 2020 #55
That's the line that had me cackling. underthematrix Feb 2020 #57
This sounds like a Democratic president. 7wo7rees Feb 2020 #34
He votes with Democrats in the Senate. More than some Democrats. Claritie Pixie Feb 2020 #61
"That's what you do"...? W_HAMILTON Feb 2020 #36
The condescension is palpable. Claritie Pixie Feb 2020 #41
That would be intended... W_HAMILTON Feb 2020 #47
Wow. Claritie Pixie Feb 2020 #48
There is another choice... LovingA2andMI Feb 2020 #38
Ok...might as well vote for Trump. Claritie Pixie Feb 2020 #44
Your Opinion LovingA2andMI Feb 2020 #46
No "gloom and doom" here. William769 Feb 2020 #43
This 💪 Drum Feb 2020 #52
Channeling Donald Rumsfeld... hay rick Feb 2020 #54
Add those non-Bernie candidates together and what do you get? pazzyanne Feb 2020 #185
Candidates not named Bernie are still taking the majority of the votes. hay rick Feb 2020 #189
yep, the gloom & doom Bernie bashing is very unattractive & I hope they come to realize that yaesu Feb 2020 #60
Really??? LovingA2andMI Feb 2020 #96
Don't tell us who to vote for. We decide on our own. Under The Radar Feb 2020 #62
Ouch. Claritie Pixie Feb 2020 #63
No, just insulted my intelligence Under The Radar Feb 2020 #85
Here, here. wisteria Feb 2020 #72
Bernie's already the nominee? I must have missed something Vogon_Glory Feb 2020 #64
Yeah, this is what they are pushing along with the media they have intimidated. wisteria Feb 2020 #71
The lame-stream corporate media likes nail-biting horse races Vogon_Glory Feb 2020 #92
I believe it's called Aura of Inevitability ehrnst Feb 2020 #91
Forgive me, but I consider myself to be a Yogi Berran Vogon_Glory Feb 2020 #101
SHHHHHH!!! ehrnst Feb 2020 #119
If you consider stating reality bashing, then I guess there is bashing bitterross Feb 2020 #65
You got a crystal ball or something? Claritie Pixie Feb 2020 #68
Post removed Post removed Feb 2020 #67
Then you might as well vote for Trump. Claritie Pixie Feb 2020 #73
K&R backtoblue Feb 2020 #69
Yes we are. Thank you. Claritie Pixie Feb 2020 #77
Seriously, vote for him in November. And pick something from his damn platform... SMC22307 Feb 2020 #70
Nope wisteria Feb 2020 #75
You won't vote for Sanders (D) in the general? SMC22307 Feb 2020 #88
realizing that we're stuck with Trump for at least 5 more years CalFione Feb 2020 #78
My concern is statewide and down-ballot races AlexSFCA Feb 2020 #79
And keeping our Democratic Senator.... LovingA2andMI Feb 2020 #98
Doesn't tell you something, test many people don't like Sanders? wisteria Feb 2020 #80
Gee I wonder - Claritie Pixie Feb 2020 #83
A lot of people HERE don't like him ibegurpard Feb 2020 #104
He is getting his support from the young, women, and non white populations womanofthehills Feb 2020 #123
Thats what most people did in 2016 Catch2.2 Feb 2020 #84
You and me. hay rick Feb 2020 #109
Well, I'll vote for him in the general.... dawg day Feb 2020 #87
I may have to vote for him, but I will not in the primary. 58Sunliner Feb 2020 #94
It's NOT DU that fucking matters Ferrets are Cool Feb 2020 #99
Who has said they won't vote for him? brooklynite Feb 2020 #100
Some examples upthread n/t Devil Child Feb 2020 #106
The wailing and gnashing of teeth is music to my ears Devil Child Feb 2020 #103
Sorry MFM008 Feb 2020 #110
Indeed. I'm with you on that. We vote for our nominee no matter what. PatrickforO Feb 2020 #112
You acknowledge Putin. You start fighting for democracy delisen Feb 2020 #113
First, Bernie is not the ONLY good candidate. Second, we all vote for the candidate that wins the Nitram Feb 2020 #120
The MAGAts are running scared. StocktonNative Feb 2020 #122
I've been hanging around here since before the 2004 election. Hyper_Eye Feb 2020 #127
luv this! elder phd Feb 2020 #158
I supported Bernie in 2016...but I voted for Hillary... mudstump Feb 2020 #128
That's all I'll do. Loki Liesmith Feb 2020 #130
Bookmarking ! I think we are going to lose the house of representatives . stonecutter357 Feb 2020 #133
Wow, just wow. Anniem60 Feb 2020 #134
Breathtaking is definitely the right word. redqueen Feb 2020 #140
If you think Bernie is an "FDR style Democrat," you don't know much about Bernie. SunSeeker Feb 2020 #147
wc to du questionseverything Feb 2020 #215
I don't think people are worried about THEIR votes. n/t MrModerate Feb 2020 #136
Exactly. nt SunSeeker Feb 2020 #148
Yes!! KSNY Feb 2020 #137
Makes no sense, sorry Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2020 #141
Of course we'll vote for him, but DesertRat Feb 2020 #142
Everybody OTHER THAN Bernie Roy Rolling Feb 2020 #144
I will sleep well tonight aeromanKC Feb 2020 #146
Switched too La Coliniere Feb 2020 #149
Are we the same person? Claritie Pixie Feb 2020 #150
Yes! La Coliniere Feb 2020 #151
Not from me! Buckeye_Democrat Feb 2020 #153
I didn't know Noam could dance! Claritie Pixie Feb 2020 #155
Thats what I did too marlakay Feb 2020 #154
some observations elder phd Feb 2020 #156
Thanks! Listened to a couple Anand clips and scipan Feb 2020 #203
I admit I am actually pretty happy booley Feb 2020 #160
It's not as gloomy as it's going to be in November. HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #161
It's like when a relative believes their holistic approach will cure their cancer RhodeIslandOne Feb 2020 #165
Great analogy HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #166
That's not even a question RhodeIslandOne Feb 2020 #164
How ironic that people supposedly pissed at Bernie deadenders are willing to throw away party unity D23MIURG23 Feb 2020 #175
If Bernie wins the nomination and beats Trump, we will all owe him an enormous debt bluedye33139 Feb 2020 #176
He will not win a general. I would vote for him happily if he could. Demsrule86 Feb 2020 #179
I am still hoping despite operation chaos, we can stop Sanders from getting the nomination. However, Demsrule86 Feb 2020 #177
Ditto! There's no question about what to do. Bluepinky Feb 2020 #180
House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy will be the next speaker come 2021 Gothmog Feb 2020 #183
Oh. I'll vote for him. Knowing he'll lose against TrumPutin's machinery. CousinIT Feb 2020 #184
Exactly! JeaneRaye Feb 2020 #187
Yes, yes, yes. warmfeet Feb 2020 #195
He's already won the nomination? Isn't a little early to declare "victory" based on three small... NNadir Feb 2020 #198
But it is a question Joinfortmill Feb 2020 #199
Here Here! Proudly second jimlup Feb 2020 #200
Bingo, that's all we can and SHOULD DO. I, too, supported Bernie last time around, secondwind Feb 2020 #206
Bernie is not my choice CanonRay Feb 2020 #207
I hope I'll see the same conviction from Bernie Sunsky Feb 2020 #208
No doom and gloom from me mgcgulfcoast Feb 2020 #211
Exactly! Heartstrings Feb 2020 #217
here here. he only loses IF WE DO NOT VOTE. unity. like the GOP. just hit D. pansypoo53219 Feb 2020 #218
I vote for whoever rankles the Trumpers the most. 70sEraVet Feb 2020 #220
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