Obama not winning popular vote, so why does he claim he is?

[MagsDem]

The only way he can make that claim is if he pretends millions of people didn't vote in FL and MI. But they did. The facts are that HRC is ahead in the popular vote total by about 30K voters.

The facts are Obama is not the choice of most democrats; he is the choice of slightly less voters than HRC.

The facts are that if Obama wants to pretend people in FL and MI didn't vote, regardless of whether delegates will be seated as a result of those votes, he should not count on those people to vote for him should he win the nomination. He has as much told them their votes don't matter, similarly to DUers who claim they don't need HRC voters to win in Nov.

Regardless, can we please stop pretending that people hate HRC and all the world loves Obama? The numbers just don't support that conclusion.

[TAWS]

1. He is winning the popular vote with Florida included

You can't count Michigan because his name wasn't even on the ballot

[MagsDem]

6. He took his name off the ballot in MI

And the people that voted for HRC still voted for her. This selective counting thing is ridiculous, and I don't know how he can expect those folks to vote for him in Nov when he has told them flat out that their vote didn't count in Jan.

[TAWS]

8. Why does the rasmussen poll show him tied with Clinton in Michigan and him winning it in the GE?

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

9. they still voted for her BECAUSE SHE KEPT HER NAME ON THE BALLOT

God, the lies you people tell.

[movonne]

14. I guess if you are a dem and the only dem on the ballot is hillary I

guess that might be a little unfair....

[marshall]

108. Hillary only got 50% of MI votes--and she was the only name on the ballot!

That is hilarious.

[scheming daemons]

11. The 40% who voted "none of the above" in Michigan should count for Obama then....

She ran against ONLY Dennis Kucinich.... and she still was rejected by 45% of Democrats.


Touting the Michigan vote as a "win" for her is the height of soviet-style politicking.


The only difference is.... when the Soviet leaders ran unopposed, they did much better than 55%.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

20. Obama Told Them To Vote For Undecided. So She Wasn't Running Unopposed.

His supporters knew damn well what to do.

I think Michigan should absolutely be a do over. If not, then he should get the undecided numbers, since he did basically tell people to view undecided as being for him.

[scheming daemons]

26. Bingo... so you have to give the 40% "Undecided" votes to him.....

Puts him back ahead in popular vote.

[MagsDem]

34. Why do you have to? HE took his name OFF the ballot

He told MI voters their vote meant nothing because it wasn't going to bring him delegates. That was HIS decision.

[earthside]

49. No. It was not his decision.

It was the decision of the Democratic Party. Hillary Clinton(s) defied that decision ... for her own self interest.

Another example of why old Hill is a bad candidate and would make a bad President -- she puts what she thinks is good for her before anything else.

[MagsDem]

56. Sorry, but that is simply untrue

The secretary of state of MI gave all democrats the opportunity to remove their names from the ballot. Obama and Edwards did it for political reasons. She choose to respect dem voters, whether the DNC seated delegates as a result or not. Their political gamesmanship was their decision.

"At issue is a decision by Mr. Obama and a former North Carolina senator, John Edwards, to withdraw their names from the Michigan ballot in October. That came after the Democratic National Party imposed sanctions on the state party for scheduling its primary ahead of the date the national party approved — February 5 "Super Tuesday."

At the time, the withdrawals were seen as a ploy to isolate Senator Clinton, who had a large lead in national polls, and make it seem as though she was taking advantage of the standoff. But the perception among rank-and-file Democrats is that the state party leadership lost a showdown with the Democratic National Committee. The national party stripped Michigan of its convention delegates, disenfranchising a large part of its political base in the process. And it threatens to weaken the party in a key state for the general election."

[PseudoIntellect]

107. If everyone knew that MI would not count, (even Hillary expressed verbal acknowledgement of it)

then why should Barack be penalized for doing something in a meaningless election? Re-vote, or you're being just as selfish as those who don't want either state to ever count this primary. Obviously, Barack's support was much higher than ZERO in Michigan, so why is it that counting MI as it is now is considered the "will" of the people? If the will of the people was important, Barack would get over zero votes, as Hillary would. I say re-vote.

[bilgewaterbill]

120. I say "NO" to the re-vote. They are not disenfranchised.

They are dealing with consequences. You don't get a do-over just 'cuz you were wrong.

[PseudoIntellect]

128. So they shouldn't count at all?

[bilgewaterbill]

133. They should not count any differently now than they were going to

when the primaries were held. Not at all.

[rodeodance]

86. and some including Dodd and DK decided to keep their names ON

[last_texas_dem]

129. Kucinich's name was only left on due to paperwork issues.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

50. Personally? I Don't Mind That. A Few Of Those % Were Probably Not His, But Overall I'd Agree.

[anamandujano]

126. It needs to be divided with Edwards and whoever else was still in then.

[Blue State Bandit]

77. John Conyers said that.

Not Obama. Facts Please.

[cali]

92. You are wrong

There isn't a political analyst who would agree with that. Even having your name low in the order of candidates makes for fewer votes for that candidate by about 3%. Not having your name on it at all obviously has a deleterious effect. And no, he did not tell people to vote undecided. In any case, MI will not be seated as is.

Oh, and let me add that the OP is one who won't vote for Obama if he's the nominee, and has mentioned that she will actively work against him if he is.

[Lucinda]

37. Actually, John Conyers and his wife ran a campaign to get Uncommitted voters

to protect the delegates for those who took their names off the ballot, so it wasnt just a case of vote for DK or Hillary. And exit polls have the Obama and Edwards breakdowns.

http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/index.html#MIDEM

But I'm sure you already knew that.

[SKKY]

75. Yea, but did EVERY OTHER candidate except Hillary...

[DemVet]

53. He took his OWN name off the ballot...not too bright.

Anyhoo, the popular vote really doesn't matter now, does it?

No, it does not.

The only thing that matters is the number of delegates. Those are the rules.

Obama people keep harping about the rules when it comes to MI and FL.

Well, delegates are the only thing that matters for the Nomination just like Electoral Votes are the only thing that matters in the GE.

[snooper2]

2. Mkay...

keep preaching...this will all be over soon thankfully...

[MagsDem]

18. I thought BO supporters said it would be over....

Right after NH, then right after Super Tues, then after TX and OH. You just can't come to terms with the fact that neither one is really ahead of the other, can you?

[scheming daemons]

23. It's been over for weeks.... you Hillbots and your candidate are just in denial...

...

[caledesi]

55. I agree! NT

[yourguide]

41. And HRC herself stated she would wrap this thing up on Super Tuesday

it's HRC who couldnt close the deal and now she has fallen so behind she cant make it back.

[madmunchie]

83. She was so sure that she would wrap it up on Super Tuesday that her campaign

needed a personal loan from her for 5 million dollars...... major mistake on her part I'd say.

[elehhhhna]

91. Like GW & Rummy failing to plan the occupation. Crappy management, pure & simple.

[anamandujano]

127. She was wrong and Obama and you all were wrong about ending the race

with big wins in Texas and Ohio. (She won the primary.)

People can be wrong sometimes.

[Abacus]

42. Ack...

Obama has won more delegates.
Obama has won more states.
Obama has won more primaries.
Obama has won more caucues.
Obama has won more of the popular vote.

Obama is ahead in national polling.
Obama is ahead in the futures markets.

What the hell else do you need?!

[sniffa]

3. He's also not winning in delegates, so I don't know what he's talking about

Attack any grieving widows lately? :hi:

[otohara]

38. People Don't Come to See Him Speak

those are computer images, we're all under a spell!

[Guava Jelly]

4. I know you hate Obama

I don't hate Hillary though.
Do you need a hug or a friend?
:loveya:

[Bread and Circus]

5. Yes, he is. In Hillary's word's Michigan and Florida "don't count" (her words, not mine).

I'd be more than happy to see new primaries in both states. Let's put this all on the table.

[scheming daemons]

7. According to realclearpolitics.com... he's winning the popular vote...

...even if you INCLUDE Florida.


Including Michigan is a fallacy, since Hillary ran unopposed. Still "none of the above" got 40% in Michigan.


If you include Michigan, Obama is still a small amount AHEAD of Clinton anyway.

[MagsDem]

12. No, he isn't, even according to them

Obama 13,601,217 47.3% Clinton 13,620,611 47.4%

[scheming daemons]

If you (correctly) county the "none of the above" MI vote for Obama, he is.....

Sorry.... you don't get to play "Junior Soviet" and claim votes in a contest she ran unopposed.

[MagsDem]

31. HE took his name off the ballot in MI

She didn't take his name off the ballot. That was HIS decision.

[jackson_dem]

100. Except that 35-40% of that vote was for someone other than St. Obama...

[bhikkhu]

33. Not exaclty - here is the link

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

You only have Hillary ahead if you include MI, where she was the only candidate on the ballot.

[MagsDem]

35. HE took his name off the ballot

How does that translate into people not actually voting for her when they did?

[bhikkhu]

67. Perhaps in Cuba that constitutes a valid election...

no offense to Cuba, but I don't have another ready example...

It is worth noting that Hillary barely defeated her only opponent - "none of the above"

[Hepburn]

95. You know....

...it is really sad watching you spin and falter.

Your candidate is losing...deal with it and stop making a complete fool of yourself. Please...after reading most of this thread I am actually embarrassed for you.

JMHO

[harun]

98. That is only with FL and MI, he wasn't on the ballot in MI

He is leading across the board for all legitimate counts:

http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/

[burythehatchet]

10. GO BACK INTO YOUR CAGE!!! Damn I hate level 2 n/t

[bunnies]

13. Me too.

I see ignored people. :scared:

[burythehatchet]

21. This is like a descent into hell. My 200+ Ignored list was making DU bearable again

and now my BP is back up

:mad:

[bunnies]

48. Its amazing isnt it?

I dont know how anyone can stand this place without having people on ignore. Im so thankful I generally dont see OPs like this one. I'd probably smash my monitor.

[southern_dem]

125. We're sadistic

They only person I've put on ignore was the late Mr. Murkin. I'm usually a skimmer and not a reader so my eyes just usually run right past "the usual offenders". There are a few bad apples on both sides, btw...

[elixir]

29. That's hysterical! Thanks for the laugh!!

[bunnies]

44. :)

We need a laugh at Level 2. :hi:

[TheDoorbellRang]

17. Is that what happened?

Looks like I made the right decision weeks ago.

As I believe Atomic Kitten said the last time this happened:

"I see people who are dead to me." :cry:

:rofl:

[burythehatchet]

27. You know what's sad, I put like 5 people on Ignore before I realized they were already

there. At least I'm consistent. :)

[pbca]

15. Even if you count MI and FL

Which you can't because they weren't recognized primaries - Mississippi will put him over that 30k barrier. So even counting states with unofficial primaries, one of which didn't have Obama on the ballot: He'll be ahead soon.

[ORDagnabbit]

16. he is winning the popular vote.... please provide a link to your assertions

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

Without Florida or Michigan


Popular Vote Total -

Obama 13,025,003 49.4%
Clinton 12,421,316 47.1% Obama +603,687 +2.3%

With Florida

Popular Vote (w/FL) -

Obama 13,601,217 48.3%
Clinton 13,292,302 47.2% Obama +308,915 +1.1%


with florida and michigan (remember Obama was NOT on the ballot in michigan so he got ZERO votes

Popular Vote (w/FL & MI)* -

Obama 13,601,217 47.3%
Clinton 13,620,611 47.4% Clinton +19,394 +0.1%

[MagsDem]

24. You proved my point, thank you

Obama made the decision to take his name off the ballot in MI. He got no votes there because he didn't respect the voters there enough to ask for their votes.

[scheming daemons]

19. Hillary said "Michigan doesn't count for anything".... and I agree with her. You should too.

[MagsDem]

28. She had enough respect for them to leave her name on the ballot

He didn't. I'm sorry, but he doesn't get a mulligan when it comes to counting the popular vote.

[tokenlib]

40. Respect?? A lot of us in Michigan were insulted....

I heard a lot of people say they thought she was arrogant. And believe me the antics of Sen Stabenow and Gov Granholm on Hillary's behalf have not thrilled people.

[Fearless]

22. I think what everyone is forgetting is that the primary doesn't have to be democratic...

It is simply the process for party candidate selection. No where in the Constitution does it say that everyone has to vote in a primary. In fact, no where does it say that the parties have to listen to the public vote or ignore it. There are no political party rights in the Constitution. There are self-imposed codes by the parties to see who will most likely get the presidency (ie the strongest candidate). In actuallity, your vote means NOTHING in the primary. NOTHING. The vote as a whole is used as a measuring stick. Nothing more. The actual party vote happens at the convention. That's the only thing that really counts. Sorry to rain on everyone's parade, but I'm getting tired of this whole debate.

[dysfunctional press]

25. ummm- where are you getting your numbers? they seem to be wrong.

please check this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5004555&mesg_id=5004555

POPULAR VOTE (for informational purposes only)

Status Quo as of March 10 (includes IA,ME,NV,WA):
Barack Obama – 13,388,857
Hillary Clinton – 12,748,162
(Source: Wikipedia 3/10/08 plus states listed above)

Primaries only (Status Quo) as of March 10 (includes WA):
Barack Obama – 12,533,944
Hillary Clinton – 12,150,484

Caucuses only (Status Quo) as of March 10:
Barack Obama – 471,170
Hillary Clinton – 264,302
(IA,NV,AK,AS,CO,ID,KS,MN,NM,ND,NE,VI,WA*,ME,HI,TX*,WY,Guam)

With Florida only added, as of March 10 (includes IA,ME,NV,WA):
Barack Obama – 13,965,071
Hillary Clinton – 13,619,148

With Michigan only added, as of March 10* (includes IA,ME,NV,WA):
Barack Obama – 13,388,857
Hillary Clinton – 13,076,471
*Uncommitted – 238,168 (Michigan only, Obama wasn’t on the ballot)

With Florida AND Michigan added, as of March 10* (includes IA,ME,NV,WA):
Barack Obama – 13,965,071
Hillary Clinton – 13,947,457
*Uncommitted – 238,168 (Michigan only, Obama wasn’t on the ballot)

[MagsDem]

45. Let's try a credible source

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

More people have voted for HRC than Obama. Face it.

[Nederland]

59. Ha!

Read at the bottom of your own link:

(*Obama Not on Michigan Ballot; Iowa, Nevada, Washington & Maine Have Not Released Popular Vote Totals)

In other words, the only reason Obama isn't winning the popular vote is because a bunch of states he won handily in aren't counted yet. Those states easily make up the 19k vote difference. So much for your theory...

[Kokonoe]

61. You forgot *

(*Obama Not on Michigan Ballot; Iowa, Nevada, Washington & Maine Have Not Released Popular Vote Totals)

[dysfunctional press]

72. you seem to have a BIG FAT ASSterisk missing from your totals...

let's have a looksie at what it says...

*Obama Not on Michigan Ballot; Iowa, Nevada, Washington & Maine Have Not Released Popular Vote Totals

SO- it would seem that MORE people HAVE cast votes for OBAMA.

get used to it- sHrillary is NEVER going to surpass Obama's totals. sorry. :shrug:

[PseudoIntellect]

113. Whatever exceptions we can get so Hillary can seem to be ahead must be the only thing that's right.

[Genevieve]

30. Obama is the front runner. EOM

[MagsDem]

46. The frontrunner that less people prefer...

according to the actual vote totals.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

[Genevieve]

58. Wrong --

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

[MagsDem]

62. Sorry, you don't get to pretend people in MI and FL didn't vote

They did. As your link shows.

[Genevieve]

65. He would still lead, don't redefine reality ... nt

[JackORoses]

32. FL and MI held invalid elections. They don't count, simple as that.

MI and FL have not even held votes in the eyes of the DNC.
They can still do so if they wish... or not.

It's sad that you have to include flawed elections, one in which Obama wasn't even on the ballot,
just to pump Hillary's numbers up.

Obama didn't even get a vote out of MI and with the invalid results included she barely leads.

Even by your count she would be a couple hundred thousand votes behind if Obama had participated in MI.

Do you not feel a little bad that you have to manipulate the counts just to make it seem like Hillary is still in this?

[MagsDem]

43. The facts remain more people have voted for her than him

Period. Why can't you accept that? He was in the ballot in FL, and she won by a country mile. He took his name off the ballot in MI, declaring that he didn't want MI voters votes.

Either way, more people have voted for her than him. End of story.

[MagsDem]

51. How is actually counting voters "manipulating" anything?

To assert that actually counting the number of people that have voted for each is "manipulating" anything sounds so rethugish is makes me sick to my stomach. More people have voted for her than him, whether you can rationalize away counting them or not, that TRUTH is more people have voted for her. Period. That is an undeniable FACT.

[gravity]

36. Florida and especially Michigan does not count

You might have a valid point with counting Florida's, but not with Michigan.

You can try to rationalize it however you want, but you will be wrong to include Michigan's numbers when Hillary was the only person on the ballot. There is not point arguing more about this.

[MagsDem]

39. I don't have to "rationalize" anything...

He took his name off the MI ballot. In doing so he told the voters there that he didn't care about their vote if it wasn't going to translate into delegates for him. In fact, he couldn't care less in that instance. That was disrepectful of him, and he needs to face the fact that he blew it.

The bottom line is that more people have voted for her than him. No rationalizing necessary. Just facts.

[gravity]

47. More people voted FOR Hillary

If you include Michigan and Florida, but more people voted FOR Obama if you including online voting polls like on DU.

My point is that only legitimate elections count. You can't include in extra data just because it favors your candidate.

[MagsDem]

57. MI and FL were actual elections

Whether the DNC seats delegates as a result doesn't change the fact that more actual voters in real elections have voted for her.

[bagimin]

115. Actually down here Florida was referred to as a "Beauty Contest"

meaning..you could vote for fun but IT WOULD NOT COUNT and many people figured,why bother.If we hadn't been voting for property tax, turnout may have been much lower..because there was NO campaigning.

[Window]

80. Obama still leads in the popular vote even if you count Florida.

[rodeodance]

88. For OBamafolk who constantly whin about -that state "doesn't count"-you have NO argument!

[indimuse]

52. Randi R ... Ed Shultz..Steph M...

ALL make the same claim...and I might add..becoming quite scary to listen to...what a turn off!

[walldude]

119. Keith Olbermann, Thom Hartmann,

Rachael Maddow, Sam Seder, soon there won't be anyone left. Huge conspiracy is my guess.

[ContinentalOp]

54. So even if you count the unfair MI primary where Obama wasn't on the ballot,

your candidate is still only leading by 20,000 votes? Do you really not see how pathetic this line of argument is? It just makes me feel sorry for the Clinton supporters that they are reduced to this. It's like the vote counting equivalent of the "definition of is."

[MagsDem]

60. Nothing unfair about it

HE took his name off the ballot in MI. He made the decision to do that.

What is pathetic is to turn to DU day after day where BO supporters continue to pretend that the world falls at Obama's feet and that he is some kind of overwhelming choice of people. You all watch too much TeeVee. The real facts are that the dem party is evenly split between them.

[americanstranger]

69. No, 'what's pathetic' is that you continue to argue

that which numerous people in this thread have proven wrong.

With all due respect, you sound like a kid whose mom won't buy him a candy bar at the supermarket.

Obama may not be an 'overwhelming choice,' but he is leading by all measures. Whining about that won't change it, sorry.

- as

[CampDem]

70. You are right again MagsDem!!

It is way too close between them in the popular vote for people to be demanding that Hillary drop out or insisting that he has already won. Even the delegate count is very close. It would be utterly ridiculous for her to drop out now! Thank you for posting this.

Go Hillary :headbang:

[quakerboy]

63. Because He IS and you are a LIAR

even counting your vaunted misvotes in MI and FL, he is still up aproximately 300 k votes.

[theaudacity]

64. She won uncontested primaries. By that logic Sadaam is the most popular prez in world history w/ 99%

of the vote in every election.

That is not an effort to compare the 2, but saying those states count is like counting Tiger Woods' performance at a local minigolf course into his career average.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

66. Only with Orwellian arithmetic is Obama behind HRC in popular votes

The Michigan Primary gave HRC a Soviet style 328,000-vote "landslide".

(See http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/MI-D.phtml )

And a Florida name-recognition farce, with no campaigning allowed, gave HRC a tainted popular-vote margin of 288,000.

(See http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/FL-D.phtml ).

Use these 616,000 spurious popular voted to cancel out Obama's legitimate margin of more than 570,000, and PRESTO, an Orwellian-arithmetic margin for Hillary.

[Window]

68. Post your factual numbers to back up your claim, or STFU.

[stray cat]

71. He is winning the popular vote at present

[OzarkDem]

73. Don't confuse them with facts...

:popcorn:

[Window]

74. Mags...

Clinton Campaign Official, Public Statement on the DNC's Michigan and Florida pledge:

"We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process. And we believe the DNC's rules and its calender provide the necessary structure to respect and honor that role. Thus, we will be signing the pledge to adhere to the DNC approved nominating calendar."

Official Release of the The Hillary Clinton Campaign
September 1, 2007

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

101. Link? I want to put that in my file.

[Yes We Did]

76. You can spin and twist all you want... It will not change the facts.

And the fact is... Hillary is losing.

[George_Bonanza]

78. Yawn

Relax, there'll be do-overs in those two states. Oh wait, are you afraid that once candidates actually start campaigning, that Hillary will lose?

[CindyKay]

79. What About the Independents

There were Plenty of Closed Primary's and I am an Independent living in Florida . I was not allowed to Vote. When do Our Votes Count Equally??? Obama was not on the ballot therefore Mi. wasn't Fair. Florida & Plenty of Other's were Closed Primary's making them all Unfair as well.

[Omega3]

93. since when is a closed primary unfair?

[Perky]

81. You are quite simply wrong on the facts even including MI and FL AS IS.. HERE ARE THE FACTS.

This is everything except for two things the Texas Caucuses and the Washington Primary both of which Obama won. My source for all data is CNN. And he still leads by 67,000


He has every right to claim the PV lead even by the method that is most favorable to Clinton.

Details ….. 13,203,777 ….. 13,270,681
Date State ….. Clinton ….. Obama
….. Votes ….. Votes
3-Jan-08 IA ….. 69,310 ….. 90,820
8-Jan-08 NH ….. 112,610 ….. 105,007
15-Jan-08 MI ….. 328,151 …..
19-Jan-08 NV ….. 60,690 ….. 53,550
26-Jan-08 SC ….. 141,128 ….. 295,091
29-Jan-08 FL ….. 857,208 ….. 569,041
5-Feb-08 AL ….. 226,454 ….. 302,684
5-Feb-08 AK ….. 103 ….. 302
5-Feb-08 AS ….. 163 ….. 121
5-Feb-08 AE ….. 201,391 ….. 167,053
5-Feb-08 AK ….. 202,055 ….. 77,962
5-Feb-08 CA ….. 2,132,166 ….. 1,735,015
5-Feb-08 CA ….. 38,387 ….. 79,344
5-Feb-08 CT ….. 164,831 ….. 179,349
5-Feb-08 DE ….. 40,751 ….. 51,124
5-Feb-08 DA ….. …..
5-Feb-08 GA ….. 328,129 ….. 700,366
5-Feb-08 ID ….. 3,655 ….. 16,880
5-Feb-08 IL ….. 662,845 ….. 1,301,994
5-Feb-08 KS ….. 9,462 ….. 27,172
5-Feb-08 MA ….. 704,591 ….. 511,887
5-Feb-08 MN ….. 68,193 ….. 141,292
5-Feb-08 MO ….. 395,287 ….. 405,284
5-Feb-08 NJ ….. 602,576 ….. 492,186
5-Feb-08 NM ….. 67,921 ….. 66,829
5-Feb-08 NY ….. 1,003,623 ….. 697,914
5-Feb-08 ND ….. 6,948 ….. 11,625
5-Feb-08 OK ….. 228,425 ….. 130,087
5-Feb-08 TN ….. 322,599 ….. 250,730
5-Feb-08 UT ….. 48,719 ….. 70,373
9-Feb-08 LA ….. 136,959 ….. 220,558
9-Feb-08 NE ….. 12,374 ….. 26,296
9-Feb-08 VI ….. 226 ….. 1,833
9-Feb-08 WA ….. 61,070 ….. 133,960
10-Feb-08 ME ….. 17,600 ….. 25,960
12-Feb-08 DC ….. 27,326 ….. 85,534
12-Feb-08 MD ….. 273,828 ….. 439,079
12-Feb-08 VA ….. 345,018 ….. 619,036
19-Feb-08 HI ….. 8,835 ….. 28,347
19-Feb-08 WI ….. 452,757 ….. 645,954
4-Mar-08 OH ….. 1,207,896 ….. 979,025
4-Mar-08 RI ….. 108,750 ….. 78,115
4-Mar-08 TX ….. 1,459,814 ….. 1,358,785
4-Mar-08 VT ….. 59,640 ….. 91,740
8-Mar-08 WY ….. 3,312 ….. 5,378

[Johnny__Motown]

82. He is no matter how you count it.. why are you claiming he isn't

[CyberPieHole]

84. Simple. Obama will LIE, CHEAT AND STEAL to get the nomination.

:kick: and rec

[against all enemies]

89. God you are obnoxious.

[cali]

96. bwahahahah.a. And YOU

whine about how people treat Hillary? What a piece of work you are, hole.

[dcindian]

85. What kind of anti Democrat logic is this?

Wow what a bunch of crap. I think you are much better off with your Obama is a scary black man and whites won't vote for him spew.

Now let me say this very slowly for you.


Obama is winning Hillary Clinton is losing.

[against all enemies]

87. Only a POS would count the MI votes, are you counting them?

[Medusa]

97. the PA governor tried to do the same thing on MTP

He claimed Hillary "won" Michigan where she was the only candidate on the ballot!

[Lerkfish]

90. flailing wildly now, we're returning to the "inevitability meme" at this late date?

memes:
1. the inevitable candidate
2. that state don't count
3. he's winning because he's black, and maybe a muslim
4. The press stole my football!
5. I'm the comeback gal!
6. I'm breaking even when I've lost the last eleven states
7. I"m ahead, as long as math isn't your strong suit.

[cali]

94. poor, pitiful little magsdem

grasping wildly at straws. Still planning to vote McCain when Obama wraps it up?

[flordehinojos]

99. baracka obama spin is nothing new.

like GWB he likes to plant lies and spin his way in through confusion and misstatements.

[Hav]

106. .

If the argument is about the winner of the popular vote, then one needs to count Michigan and give Obama 0 votes so that Clinton is on top?? We want to talk about who received the most votes...and we assume that there wouldn't be at least 20k people in Michigan who would have voted for Obama or who actually voted for him by choosing uncommitted? It's very likely that there were people voting for him, that in the end is part of the popular vote even if one can't give exact numbers. Plus, it seems that several caucus states have not released how many participated which obviously counts as 0 as well but in reality they would be a part of the popular vote as well. So, who is really spinning and lying here?

[SoonerPride]

102. After tomorrow even the lie of MI won't matter

Because he'll win Mississippi by more than 20,000 votes.

But seriously, you look pathetic claiming she has more votes when his name was't even on the ballot.

That's weak shit.

[kwenu]

103. Hillary's behind by all accounts so why does she offer the VP slot to the frontrunner?

[NeedleCast]

104. Someone needs to push your off button

Regardless, even if you want to play dumb and pretend that despite the fact that four states have not reported total votes (and three of them were won handily by Obama). Even if you want to include MI and FL and go on with your bullshit argument that Hillary didn't take her name off the balot despite being asked to out of "respect" for the MI voters (dry that out you can fertalize the lawn). Even with all the spin...after Mississippi, it wont be true anymore.

[bajamary]

105. Numbers - the math - supports HRC

Thanks for the post.

The math shows that Hillary has more votes than Obama, so far.

The spin meisters are going nuts with Kool Aid Obama thinking.

[PseudoIntellect]

109. Obama's caucus wins net him a few thousand votes.

If Obama's caucus win states had primaries, Obama would be winning the PV by large margins, indeed. That's why the pledged delegates weight the caucuses to represent greater populations. Pledged delegates are much more accurate representations of overall support than popular votes cast in an election of both primaries and caucuses. (unless, of course, caucuses are merely evil undemocratic plots to screw Hillary over)

Also, not all of the caucus results have been reported. Some states have only reported delegates, instead of popular vote. SEVERAL still need to report, anyway.

[Upton]

111. No it doesn't

here's some math- Obama is 600,000 up in popular vote, if you include Fla. he is still 300,000 up. Only if you include Mich., a state that was uncontested where Obama's name wasn't even on the ballot, does Hillary eke out a 20,000 vote lead.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

[Hav]

112. Wrong...

The math doesn't support it at all. The provided link clearly suggests that Clinton only leads if one counts Michigan while giving Obama 0 votes for this state and without several caucus states that were almost all won by Obama. In the end, there is no doubt that more people voted for Obama, which was what the OP tried to dispute.

[krkaufman]

110. Look, over there...!!! Get that windmill....!!! n/t

[Drachasor]

114. All things considered....

Obama has a huge advantage with the popular vote. A revote in Michigan (which will happen), will give him tons of votes, even if he loses, so Hillary won't be able to catch up to him there. A revote in Florida will likewise narrow the difference between Hillary and Obama there (so she'll get relatively less votes there). Those revotes are definitely going to happen. As with pledged delegates, this advantage is nearly impossible for Hillary to surmount.

Now consider the fact that Obama would likely have a larger victory margin if caucus states had had primaries (even if the percentage of the vote was closer, there'd be a lot more votes), and he is leading in national polls (for a few days Hillary took the lead, but now and overall Obama has had the advantage here for some time). It's pretty clear the Obama is the preferred candidate by almost all the significant measures. The "big State" argument is the only thing Hillary can "win," but when you consider that almost all the big States go to Democrats anyhow, and that Obama will probably win Ohio in the general anyhow (he brings out huge numbers of voters many/most HRC voters would vote for him if Hillary endorses him -- and she will, and the Republicans really don't have much of a chance of winning against Hillary or Obama), this remaining argument falls apart.

Lastly, Obama certainly wants to find a way to count Florida and Michigan, and his campaign seems happy with having a revote. Claiming he "doesn't want them to count" is silly.

[Turn CO Blue]

116. Is this like opposite day or perhaps Bizarro World?

Snap out of it!

I don't know why I should vote for either one of these flawed candidates with such seriously math-deficient followers...

Your first rule is -- don't rely on any vote counts from CNN - they still haven't updated the all the totals on their 2006 elections pages, for kee-rist sake!!! They are notoriously ALWAYS behind.

Or you could get some up to the minute data by actually going to each state's Secretary of State pages.


Here's someone who has done the work for you.

<http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/11/01539/3327/165/473759>
As Max Fletcher noted in a thorough article posted today on Open Left, the actual popular vote count currently stands at:

Barack Obama--13,335,159
Hillary Clinton--12,629,468

For those of you counting at home--as I'm sure many of you are as opposed to the MSM; that is a difference of 705,691 votes.

OpenLeft Diary - well documented
<http://openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=4449>

Including Michigan and Florida
Obama: 15,605,757
Clinton: 15,296,269
(margin: 309,488)

Yep, Obama is still ahead by 309,488 if you include FL and MI as-is.

[annie1]

117. if you're going to count MI give most of the uncommitted to Bo.

[NMMatt]

118. If you are going to include fucking MI at least give the "not Clinton" votes to Obama for fucks sake

Since she barely won against nobody.

[Obamanaut]

121. I am in Fl. I voted, knowing the only thing being counted was my

vote against the property tax amendment. I'll vote for him in November. It is no pretense that people dislike HRC, and the world does love BHO. Manipulate numbers any way that makes you feel better, BHO is much more likable and electable than HRC.

[AX10]

122. Smart people understand that Florida and Michigan are...

far more important and winnable for Democrats in November than Idaho and Wyoming.

[Gore1FL]

123. ..Th popular vote is a canard

1> He is unless you count the MI and FL "Beauty contests." --I am guessing those totals don't inlclude the WA beauty contst held after their caucus either

2> Th popular vote method tells the stastes that held caucuses they don;t matter. (comparing caucus results and primary results is apples and oranges.

3> to count the vote in FL and MI (and WA) primaries is disenfranchneg voters who followed th enews,neknew it didn;t count, and didn;t show up.

4> The MI contest popular vote does not assign Obama his portion of the "other vote in MI


Come up with another trial balloon--and next time try to give the Super Delegates credit for understanding how the nominating system works.

[DearAbby]

124. JESUS, not this shit again............. n/t

[avrdream]

130. Bump.

[SoCalDem]

131. As of this moment in time NOTHING "counts" that came from FL & MI

not even the cancelled hotel rooms for the delegates who would have gone..

IF an arrangement is made, and a do-over is agreed upon, the votes from THAT event will be duly added to each column..

If the existing, agreed-upon rules are held to, ... well we ARE where we ARE..

Everything is just as it was when they both broke the rules they helped SET, and boastfully (and incorrectly) thought they could "get away with it"..

Some people follow rules, others break them and then want to change them after they have already broken them.. ..you know.. like the '00 election & the Bush clan

[CreekDog]

132. Because he is

your count is not including states like Iowa, Nevada and Washington among others. When all are counted, the margin swells to over 700k. Even with Florida and Michigan, Obama still leads in the popular vote.