Reply #32: Disagreement noted..but your not getting it. [View All]

[Evoman]

"who get insulted because other people do not frame things the way they would like - are being control freaks. They have got it in their minds that they should be able to control how others talk about atheism and they are determined to be insulted and start flame wars over it. "

Its not a question of framing. Its a question of it being an outright mistake. I have no faith...thats it. And I have no belief in god. Thats a fact for me. Its insulting when people say, "NO! Your a liar or you don't know your own mind. This is what you believe!" I am not a control freak...I'm not someone who gets angry at the comment, I just try to show people what I really think, because its a common enough, and understandable, mistake. But when people tell me I don't know my own mind, it kinda pisses me off.

And I am not DETERMINED to be insulted. I attempt to educate people about what I think. I get insulted when people are DETERMINED to insult ME and keep telling me I'm wrong about my own mind.

"I think it is one thing to state how one thinks about it - I think it another thing to go on and on and insist that other people think and write about what others consider to be a religious matter the same way that they do. "

Thats exactly my point, Bloom! Thats what happens here. We state how we think about it: "I don't have faith that god doesn't exist, I merely do not have belief in god" and the insulters respond. "Yes you do...atheism is faith, science is faith." It happens all the time here...we are not feigning being insulted. Again, its not the initial comment thats insulting..thats very understandable if your new to the forum. Its the continous insistence that we "have faith" despite our protests that is FUCKING insulting.



"While my ideas are based on the fact that I just don't find the concept of God/dess believable - I am not insulted if someone thinks that is because I have more "faith" in science than I do theology. Either way - it's a matter of having faith in people - and deciding which people are more credible. There is also one's own experience. How one wants to explain things like "luck", intuition, emotions and etc. "

And there are people that understand the God is a fairy tale comment as a way of expressing our views on the myths and are not insulted. But the most probably are...just because your not insulted, it doesn't mean we aren't. Like you said...all atheists are different. We are not all like you. We get insulted when people continually try to define us in ways that aren't true.


"There may be some atheists who think that everything in the world is black and white and that they see everything in those terms. LIke the effects of yoga are scientifically calculable or they are not real. I don't think that. Some people may put more "faith" in people's abilities than I do. Faith is just a word - and just like "belief" - there may be some people that assume that people are using it religiously - with a different connotation than they are. "

Words have context, thats true. But you can't be obtuse about this...we all know what people mean when they say that atheists have beliefs or Faith. We are obviously, in most discussion, talking about Faith as a "proposition that something is true, even if there is little to no evidence to support it or evens" or "something that is believed especially with strong conviction". That definition, i.e. "I have faith in god" IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT DEFINITION than the more mundane definition: "I believe or have faith than the light will turn on when I flick the switch" It is INTELLECTUALLY dishonest to use both definitions in one conversation.

Theist: I have faith in god and you have faith that he doesn't exist (DEFINITION 1).

Athiest: No I don't. I have no faith (Definition 1)

Thiest: Yes you do..you have faith in things. You have faith the sun will rise (DEFINITION 2)

Athiest: Yeah, if you use that definition...I guess so.

thiest: See, you do have faith (Definition 2). Like I have faith in god (Definition 1)

Its almost the same as:

Dude #1: Your high.

Dude #2: No I'm not, I haven't smoked anything.

Dude #1: Yes you are...we are on the fifth floor. This is pretty high. Your high.

Dude #2: Sure..I guess so.

Dude #1: See you are high...you should get to rehab.

IF your using two definitions of a word in the same freaking discussion, then your making a fallacy.