Reply #283: Wow. Is this straight from the IDF? [View All]

[ErisFiveFingers]

Typical modern propaganda? These are supposed 'Facts'?

Myth 1:
"Also, you are completely ignoring the fact that historically, there has never been a "Palestinian" people."
Philistines. They're kind of mentioned in the bible.

Myth 2:
"only a few lonely shepherds lived on these lands."
I'm pretty sure the city-state of Jerusalem was pretty much a hub for more than a few lonely shepherds for, oh, the last 3000 years. Jaffa was a major gateway port in it's own right for the last 2800 years. It's a romantic notion (I note, with amusement, you used the "milk and honey" slogan) that Israel was built out of a barren, nearly unpopulated desert, but not a factually supported one.

Myth 3:
"Arabs came to the land"
See above, many were already there. Have you not heard about the Great Revolt?

Myth 4:
"The Arabs left becasue their Arab "brothers" tole them to get out of the way"
Extensive research has been done on this one, because of the debates surrounding the refugees. No such original statement can be found, other than anecdotal. What *is* clear is that there was a mass exodus, and there's a lot of finger pointing as to reasons why people would, oh, want to leave a war zone. In the current situation, at least, it's quite obvious that Israelis are instructing people to flee, as some have argued they did in prior wars.

Myth 5:
"Understandably, adn rightfully, the Israelis refused to let them back in."
Sorry, this willfully violates the letter and the spirirt of the Geneva conventions. So it is most definately not understandable, nor is it right.

Myth 6:
"Yasser Arafat invented the "Palestinian people"... "
No, credit for "Palestina" being named after the Philistines belongs to emperor Hadrian, circa 135 AD, long before Arafat's time.

Don't beat yourself up for having learned this standard body of mythos, it's quite popular in the propaganda of today. As far as I can read into it, it's sort of an attempt to justify some of the more distressing parts of Israeli history by saying "You really didn't want it, so we took it, and you can't have it back now because it's ours."

As far as the rest of your argument, I think it's safe to say that "No justice" for modern wrongs that *continue* to be committed by Israel, Hezbollah, Hamas, etc. means no modern peace for any of them.

One way of settling those modern injustices would be simple: Naturalize all people who live in the disputed areas as Israeli citizens, and allow all people to return to what they view as their home properties. Enforce this with a massive UN army, which would also have to task of disarming the Israelis, Hezbollah, HAMAS, etc. Once everyone is reasonably disarmed, and no longer refugees, let them vote, and create a true democracy or group of allied states in the middle east that would be *so* formidable that nobody would ever dare attack them again. Then, the peoples can begin the long process of reconciliation, with legal claims handled by courts instead of guns. Of course, this plan would never be acceptable to the Israelis, because it might make Jews a minority in the state, and for all their bluster about democracy, Israel seems only commited to a "Jewish democracy". Maybe that will change one day.