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Jara sang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 11:24 PM
Original message
Special U.S. Envoy for Combating Anti-Semitism Assumes Post
No link. From State Dept. list


Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 21:18:39 -0400
From: "U.S. Dept of State List Manager" <listmgr@STATE.GOV>
Subject: Special U.S. Envoy for Combating Anti-Semitism Assumes Post

Special U.S. Envoy for Combating Anti-Semitism Assumes Post
(Rice swears in Gregg Rickman, son of Nazi Holocaust survivor) (550)

By Michael Jay Friedman
Washington File Staff Writer

Washington -- Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on May 22 administered
the oath of office to the Department of State's first special envoy for
monitoring and combating anti-Semitism.

Gregg Rickman, a former congressional staff member who helped investigate
the United Nations Oil-for-Food Program and the retention by Swiss banks of
assets belonging to Holocaust victims and their heirs, assumes the
position, which was created by the Global Anti-Semitism Review Act of 2004.

Rickman, whose father survived the Nazi Holocaust, or Shoah, that murdered
an estimated 6 million Jews along with Poles, Roma, homosexuals and others
deemed undesirable by the Nazi regime and its allies, linked the prevention
of anti-Semitism to the cause of freedom and democracy.

"If we have learned any lessons from the past, it is that anti-Semitism
left unchecked results in disaster," he said.

Shaped by Senator George Voinovich (Republican of Ohio) and Representatives
Christopher Smith (Republican of New Jersey) and Tom Lantos (Democrat of
California), the act mandates a one-time State Department Report on Global
Anti-Semitism and subsequent inclusion of information about anti-Semitism
in the department's annual reports on human rights and on international
religious freedom.

Recent years have seen an upsurge in violent anti-Semitic incidents and in
the dissemination of anti-Semitic propaganda, including The Protocols of
the Elders of Zion, a 19th century forgery positing a Jewish conspiracy to
control the world through perversion of traditional social and political
institutions. Television stations in some parts of the world have broadcast
series based on the Protocols, while Mahatir Mohammad, former prime
minister of Malaysia, told the Organization of the Islamic Conference on
October 16, 2003, that Jews "rule the world by proxy."

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadi-Nejad has called for Israel to be "wiped
off the map," a formulation considered by some to be a call for the
destruction of the Jewish state. He also has been quoted as calling the
Nazi Holocaust of the Jews "a myth."

The worldwide Jewish population today has been estimated at between 13
million and 14.6 million, as compared with about 18 million before World
War II.

After signing the Anti-Semitism Review Act into law, President Bush on
October 16, 2004, pledged that "This nation will keep watch; we will make
sure that the ancient impulse of anti-Semitism never finds a home in the
modern world."

Rice echoed this sentiment in remarks preceding Rickman's swearing-in.
"More than six decades after the Holocaust, anti-Semitism is not just an
historical fact, however. It is a current event," she said.

"Defending human dignity means defeating anti-Semitism," Rice said.

The Office of the Special Envoy for Monitoring and Combating Anti-Semitism
will be housed with the State Department's Bureau of Democracy, Human
Rights and Labor.
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crizzo5137 Donating Member (235 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. hmmm......n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I take it you don't talk to many non-Americans about it?
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion

While there is continued popularity of The Protocols in nations from South America to Asia, since the defeat of Nazi Germany and fascist Italy in the Second World War governments or political leaders in most parts of the world have generally avoided claims that The Protocols represent factual evidence of a real Jewish conspiracy. The exception to this is the Middle East, where a large number of Arab and Muslim regimes and leaders have endorsed them as authentic.
....
Syria
The Protocols is a best-seller in Syria<26> and, together with other anti-Semitic materials published there, is distributed throughout the Arab-Muslim world.<27> In 1997, the two-volume 8th edition of the Protocols, translated and edited by 'Ajaj Nuwayhid, was published by Mustafa Tlass's publishing house and exhibited and sold at the Damascus International Book Fair (IBF) and at the Cairo IBF. At the 2005 Cairo IBF a stand of the Syrian publisher displayed a new, 2005 edition of the Protocols authorized by the Syrian Ministry of Information.<28><29> In Syria government-controlled television channels occasionally broadcast mini-series concerning the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, along with several other anti-semitic themes. <30>
...
An article in the Egyptian state-owned newspaper al-Akhbar on February 3, 2002 stated:

All the evils that currently affect the world are the doings of Zionism. This is not surprising, because the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which were established by their wise men more than a century ago, are proceeding according to a meticulous and precise plan and time schedule, and they are proof that even though they are a minority, their goal is to rule the world and the entire human race."


A co-worker of mine from Dubai told me that it was still in wide circulation in much of the mid-east, otherwise I probably would not have thought it was still a problem, either.

Tucker
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. I have seen it on the book shelves
Edited on Wed May-24-06 12:51 AM by Coastie for Truth
of the Okura Hotel in Tokyo (that's the one across the street from the US Embassy and up the hill from IBM Asia Pacific and GE Japan) and in the books store at London's Heathrow.

I think this is "Smoke and Mirrors" -- part of the GOP "Plan" to lure away Jewish voters by appearing to be more friendly to Jewish voters and to Israel. (Remember, Kerry got 77% of the Jewish vote, highest vote among any "white" demographic). It won't work - but the GOP has Charles Krauthammer and Daniel Pipes out there beating the drums - trying convince centrist and center-left Jewish voters they they belong in the GOP.

See , Parallel cite: which I do NOT cite for the correctness - but to show what the GOP may try.

Here is an excerpt:


This trend has become increasingly evident. In 2000, survey research commissioned by the left-wing, anti-Israel activist James Zogby found "a significant partisan split" on the Arab-Israeli conflict, with Republicans significantly more pro-Israel than Democrats. For example, asked the question, "With regard to the Middle East, how do you feel the next president should relate to the region?" 22% of Republicans and only 7% of Democrats said he should be pro-Israel.

Recent research by the Gallup Poll finds that 72% of Republicans and 47% of Democrats sympathize more with the Israelis than Palestinian Arabs. A detailed look at this same data finds more dramatic results, with conservative Republicans over five times more sympathetic to Israel than liberal Democrats.

The Democratic coolness toward Israel fits into a larger pattern of conspiracy theories about neo-conservatives and anti-Jewish outbursts by such party luminaries as Jimmy Carter, Jesse Jackson, Cynthia McKinney, and James Moran. One observer, Sher Zieve, concludes that among Democrats, "anti-Semitism is and has been on the rise" for some time.

The current trend appears to be growing, with an attendant sorting out of Jews and Arabs/Muslims in American politics. This leads me to expect that Muslims, Arabs, and others hostile to Israel will increasingly vote Democratic, even as Jews and those friendly to the Jewish state increasingly vote Republican. In this light, it bears noting that American Muslims see themselves in direct competition with Jews; the Brookings Institute's Muqtedar Khan predicts that Muslims in the United States soon "will not only be able to out-vote, but also out-bid the Jewish and most other ethnic lobbies."
    ---


This is the kind of "Swift Boating" strategy the GOP will use.

I hope we have a large margin of victory in 2006 and 2008 -- BUT we have to plan and fight as if Diebold will be a factor, and "chads" will be a factor, and GOP intimidation (like Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004) will be factors, and we can not afford to take any voting bloc for granted, or to go out of our way to antagonize any traditional Democratic voting bloc.
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #5
18. And why would Pipes be concerned?
"The Democratic coolness toward Israel fits into a larger pattern of conspiracy theories about neo-conservatives and anti-Jewish outbursts by such party luminaries as Jimmy Carter, Jesse Jackson, Cynthia McKinney, and James Moran. One observer, Sher Zieve, concludes that among Democrats, "anti-Semitism is and has been on the rise" for some time."

No coolness there...


The Storm over the Israel Lobby

"...Democrats, though, still get most of the pro-Israel dollars. Among AIPAC's staunchest backers in Congress are such well-known liberals as Nancy Pelosi, Henry Waxman, Jerrold Nadler, and Howard Berman. Steny Hoyer, the House minority whip, is so reliable that "he might as well be on the AIPAC payroll," a congressional staffer told me. Hillary Clinton is equally dependable. Still attempting to live down her 1998 declaration of support for a Palestinian state and the kiss she gave Suha Arafat in 1999, Clinton has sought to compensate by voting AIPAC's way on almost every issue. In the current election cycle, she has received $80,000 in pro-Israel money—more than any other congressional candidate.

Partly as a result of such giving, says one Hill staffer, "We can count on well over half the House—250 to 300 members—to do reflexively whatever AIPAC wants."

What AIPAC wants can be summed up very succinctly: a powerful Israel free to occupy the territory it chooses; enfeebled Palestinians; and unquestioning support for Israel by the United States. AIPAC is skeptical of negotiations and peace accords, along with the efforts by Israeli doves, the Palestinians, and Americans to promote them. During the 1980s, when Israel was aggressively expanding its presence on the West Bank, AIPAC had a very close relationship with the Israeli government, especially the Likud leader Yitzhak Shamir. That quickly changed in 1992, with the election of Labor's Yitzhak Rabin. On a visit to Washington soon after taking power, he admonished AIPAC for having cozy ties with the Likud. No longer, Rabin said, would the organization act as Jerusalem's representative in Washington.

From Michael Massing's great article and fair criticism about 'M&W's Israel Lobby'...

Good read that places the Lobby in a much clearer light for Progressives than M&W.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Pipes and Krauthammer are happy--
they see the GOP growing its % of the once monolithically Democratic Jewish vote.

BTW - I live in the "Fifth Bluest County" (out of 58 counties) in the "Bluest State" in the nation - and the Delta between Democratic vote and Republican votes is typically around 5%-6% in this "Fifth Bluest County" of the "Bluest State".

So an effective GOP drive to peel off Jewish voters on "non-Israel" issues (Alternative Minimum Tax, Health Care, Stem Cell Research, GLBT issues, Safety Net) and a return to the "Progressive North Eastern/Rust Belt" GOP of Nelson Rockefeller and Jacob Javits and the early (pre-AG) Dick Thornberg, etc. could change the political situation.

That's why Pipes and Krauthammer are happy.
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megatherium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. There is an exhibit about the Protocols at the US National
Holocaust Memorial Museum (in Washington, DC). They have a collection of current editions from various countries on display. It seems it is still widely read throughout the world.
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. Fox News initially called him the "anti-semitism czar"
I guess someone has figured out that title didn't work...

Tucker
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ShockediSay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
7. So was indictment of AIPAC members "anti-semitic?"
What about Jack Abramoff and his involvement funneling money into "a non-profit group called Toward Tradition, an alliance of Jews and evangelical Christians?" see "Lobbyist's Work For Publishers Of
Magazines Under Scrutiny" published in the New York Times January 9, 2006

What about discrimination against all other ethnic groups? Or is this just a form of reverse discrimination, anti-goyem discrimination?

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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Maybe it's a trick
to get people to start thinking exactly that: "What makes the Jews so special? Bushco really loves the Jews, therefore the Jews must be guilty by association." And then, when the invasion of Iran goes sour, guess who'll get the blame? (Hint: not oil companies, and not Republicans either.)

Tucker
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. So you know what "The Jews" support, based on one community?
Edited on Wed May-24-06 01:49 AM by AlienGirl
Funny, my synagogue puts announcements about our entry into the local Gay Pride parade inside the booklets we get on the way in to services. In our Purim play last year, the girl playing Esther forgot Achashverosh's name and called him "Ahash...BUSH!" twice. (Achashverosh was a gullible and stupid king, by the way.)

Don't assume what "The Jews" support in Skokie is what "The Jews" support in Seattle, or that Orthodox Jews are any more Jewish than Reform, Conservative, or Reconstructionist Jews.

Tucker
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MelliMel Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. I am Orthodox and we are not a monolithic group.
I voted for Kerry, Gore before him, and Clinton. And I am an Orthodox Jew - hair covered and long skirt to boot. :hi:

However, I am pro-Israel.

There may be something to you seeing more 'W' stickwers though. Groups like A.N.S.W.E.R. do not help make Jews feel as though they still have a home in the Democratic Party
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #15
34. A.N.S.W.E.R has nothing to do with the Democratic Party.
I never even think of them in that context... I couldn't believe that someone would use a group like that as a measure of democrats. Democrats are also not a monlithic group.
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #15
35. ANSWER has nothing to do with the Democratic Party
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. Wrong On Two Counts
  • 77% of the Jewish voters supported Kerry in 2004 -- highest of any caucasian voting bloc.

  • The AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION'S "go to guy" on 42 US Code 1983 (See Note 1)is a "yarmulke wearing Orthodox Jew from Skokie".


    Note 1
    Section 1983. Civil action for deprivation of rights

    Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer's judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.



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UncleSepp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Which other kind of ethnic hate is used for global political purposes?
This is where antisemitism differs from other kinds of anti-ethnic hatred. It has been and is used for global political purposes; most ethnic hatreds are local. Unfortunately, antisemitism is the hate more bigots agree on. Nine out of ten bigots recommend it!

That's not to say anything about whether or not this office should exist, or what it's really for: that's only to say what's different about antisemitism compared to, for example, the ethnic hatreds of the Balkans. That's also not to say that other forms of ethnic hatred are not also worthy of attention, or that they are not also horrendously destructive. It is only to say that the destruction and the horror of regional ethnic hatred - for another example, anti-Hutu and anti-Tutsi bigotry - do not have the same potential to spill over into other regions, or to be used as common ground between hate groups to motivate larger-scale coordinated action.
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PsychoDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
12. Self Deleted....
Edited on Wed May-24-06 02:20 AM by PsychoDad
Too snarky for so early.

Peace.
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UncleSepp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. It's a weird word, isn't it?
Edited on Wed May-24-06 02:26 AM by UncleSepp
I wish they'd call it what it is, anti-Judaism. It's more respectful, I think, to Jews and to Arabs - and in this case, also more honest. The word would also cover quite well that not all Jews are Semitic. People who hate Jews don't really care if a particular Jew is Semitic or Chinese, although most are ignorant enough about Jews that they probably wouldn't have thought of an ethnic Chinese Jew existing outside of a barjoke.

Unfortunately, this is one of those bizarre words that doesn't mean what it looks like it means. Unless used by an anthropologist or linguist, it's rare for "Semitic" to be used to mean anything but "Jewish", and in the case of "anti-Semitism", it's only used to mean anti-any-Semitic-people by folks playing word games.

Also, just as an aside here, no liberal, peace-desiring Jew who is not represented by AIPAC will get any passes from any Jew-haters. Nobody's asking for voter's registration cards. I know you're clueful enough to get that, but I'll just throw that out there for anyone else who happens to be reading.

Peace to you too :-) On edit: And also a nice cup of coffee!
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PsychoDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. A cup of coffee does do wonders.
Indeed there seems to be an increase of hate and intolerance toward not only Jews, but toward anyone who isn't an obvious anglo-saxon christian sort: Middle easterners, Muslims, Gays and recently Hispanics. A wave of hate and intolerance fueled, imho, by the nationalistic and isolationist policies of the current administration.

And you are right, Not only is a peace loving liberal Jew not going to get a pass from a Jew hater, the poor person is also not going to be much loved by AIPAC or the republicans, even to the point of being called "self-loathing", etc.

But where is the Anti-Asian or anti-african american envoys? Is anti-Judaism and violence against Jews in this country presently so much worse than anti-african american hate or even violence against women that it warrants it's own "envoy" against hate of a particular stripe? Or is this perhaps a case of pandering to an influential minority by a president and party in serious trouble?

Perhaps the Bush administration should just do the "christian" thing and stand against and condemn hate and violence of all colors equally. Not just condemn some hate at the exclusion of other hate which they seem willing to propagate.

In any case, I hope the war against anti-Judaism goes better than the war on terror or the war on drugs. I think, had they appointed an "anti-Muslim Envoy" to combat the violence against muslims in this country, I'd have to pack my bags and leave before I became a victim of their success. :silly:

Peace :)
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UncleSepp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #22
36. Dad, we were warned... you see right through it
In part, it's a "Don't Think About Pink Elephants" problem. Once a Special Envoy to Combat Hate Against Jews is established, that sends a very clear message that hate against Jews is popular enough to warrant a Special Envoy. It incurs the expected reaction of "well what makes THEM so special" and plants the seed in the mind that "THE Jews" have caused this to happen. It looks like proof that AIPAC is running the show, and really does a lot to consolidate anti-Jewish feelings. If they'd wanted to create an office to promote understanding, tolerance, and acceptance, they would have. But c'mon, look who we're dealing with!

AlienGirl and I were warned once about this, by a British historian who recently got a jail sentence for Holocaust denial. Long story, not worth going into, it involves Key West, a karaoke bar, and a REALLY long story, but yeah. Curiosity killed the cat, eh? He mentioned that if he were Jewish, he would be making tracks for the border. Whatever else the man says may be up for debate, but when it comes to understanding how anti-Semitism works, I think he's got a handle on it.

Personally, my instincts tell me that things will get worse for Arabs and for Mexicans before they get bad for Jews in this country. Folks fed on two generations' worth of anti-Nazi propaganda* are going to assume that until they're actually seeing a reenactment of Sophie's Choice on the street complete with minor key violin and period costuming, things Aren't That Bad. People don't know what really happened, people don't understand why it happened, and they tend to think in terms of Castle Wolfenstein and not the subtleties of actual history made by actual people. Jews know what's going on, but nobody's going to listen. The story Jews have to tell has been co-opted, rewritten, and reowned by pop culture. What's worse is, this wall between Muslims and Jews is going to keep one group from being able to help the other. We're whispering at each other from opposite corners of the party, while the fake fundie Christians are shouting around the punchbowl. Can we please get it together before we all get our asses kicked?

I have no idea if any of this makes any sense, because coffee time is over and Miller Time has begun, but... there you have it, anyway.

Salaam, Shalom, and even Heilsa!** We're all in this leaky boat together.

* this means, movies and books intended to create a certain opinion, generally oversimplified and with the same simply stated ideas repeated ad nauseum until they are perceived as truth. This word does not mean "lie". Um... ok, just don't alert on this, geil? Can I show you my kippah and get a free pass?

** if you have to ask, you wouldn't understand... it's an Asatru thang, baby...
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Howardx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
14. perhaps
this office was created to combat a FUTURE wave of anti semitism like the kind you might expect to break out if say israel attacked irans nuke production.
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MelliMel Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. A threat?
Because we Jews mean it when we say "Never Again". We won't go quietly this time or without a fight.
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Howardx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. a threat?
it was pure speculation on my part, but if israel does attack iran wouldnt you expect there to be some sort of backlash? perhaps in the muslim world?
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MelliMel Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Yes, because we all know
that Muslims love Jews so much already in the ME.
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Howardx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. my point exactly
n/t
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Many Jews fought and died during those horrible years...
We do not hear much about the uprisings and the battles fought because the Nazi's had control of the media at the time, but the Warsaw Ghetto stands out. It should never be said that the Jews went to their doom willingly; nor should there be any doubt that Jews, Poles, Slavs and other victims of the inhumanity of those years fought the power that was Nazi Germany. They were poorly armed, if armed at all, and they were suppressed as no other group before, but they fought. Most who perished in the camps were duped into going there under extremely convincing propaganda. Many others were forced under threat of death on the street, thinking they were going to labor for the regime rather than die almost immediately...it was a nightmare.

I agree w/you 100%, "Never Again", and that does not just go for the Jews, it should stand as a clarion call for all who are oppressed. It should also be noted that the American Jews were the first to stand up for Civil Rights during the 50's & 60's. I marched w/many a Jew for the Rights of minorities during the 60's; I stood, under great pressure from the government, with Jews while they fought for the Rights every man woman & child in this nation enjoy...many of them were survivors of the Holocaust.........And I'll do it again, any time, any place.
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MelliMel Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. They were poorly armed because they were told they
had to register their weapons and then they were confiscated. The few they had were from the "law breakers" who knew how foolish it was to give up your weapons.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. One of the first things national socialists did was to remove
privately owned firearms from individuals.

Something else I learned from some of the survivors, the Gestapo personnel were not nearly as widespread as was once thought, (and portrayed in Hollywood). The Gestapo had it's long arm because of the people in Germany and the occupied countries were trying to protect themselves by 'selling out' others. Initially, this 'selling out' was an attempt to be "patriotic", and was seen as a duty rather than a survival skill. Once data was recorded as to the informer's family, workplace, etc, it was easy to corral them further...to the point where anyone would be 'sold out', just to keep the informer out of trouble. The Gestapo relied heavily on these people, and would never have had the manpower to do what was done w/o the informers giving info, and that info passed on to the SS.

Those who did little to nothing in halting this, were as complicit as the informers IMHO. There is a time when it is imperative for a man or a woman to stand up to evil. It may well be costly, but there are few things more important in this life than staring evil in the face and taking it on. One person, a difference can be made; two people, a voice no longer cries out alone in the darkness; three people, and the darkness is lifted...it takes one to stand up.
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Copperred Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
26. There is no American people.
Edited on Wed May-24-06 03:06 PM by Copperred
I'm sorry but this basically makes a mockery of the U.S. Constitution and the fundamental idea of Church and State Seperation.

Charges that US elites want to breed Anti-Semitism are now easily confirmed as true.

It's great to see Christianity and Judaism destroying America... I hope some one wakes up soon and put's them back in their place.


O! where is the Office to Combat Racism, how about the Office to Combat Upset Patriots, ...how about the office fo Combat Anti-Islamic Bigots in the US, how bout....

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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. "back in their place"? What exactly do you think is "the place" for Jews?
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Copperred Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. The Jews should be left alone...like everyone else.
Edited on Wed May-24-06 09:11 PM by Copperred
Alien,
I am not talking about Jews...

I am talking about FUNDAMENTALIST RELIGIOUS BASED AMERICANS, of any stripe, who believe their ideas take precendece to the secular under pinnings of this once republic and that those ideas and biases should be institutionalized, promoted and condoned within our government's apparatus to the public.

Today the people who make up this group consist, almost entirely, of Fundamentalist Christians, better known as the Christian Right, and their allies in the American Judaic Hard Right who recieve much less press- but is epitomized in the press by the NY Sun. Around these groups are a series of capitalists centers, though not all capitalists by any means, who are in full alignment with such ideologues from both a profit and spiritual dimension.

A good group that should be highlighted to all secular believing Democrats is the recently created Network of Spiritual Progressives, started by Rabbi Michael Lerner, which is pulling together thousands of enlighted religious leaders across the country to build a united front of the secular religious majority against these fundamentalists who have little respect for the pluralist ideals that for a very long time kept America at the forefront of dialogue and provided us with a moral mantle that we no longer have. See www.spiritualprogressives.org.

Alien hope this clears up your misunderstanding.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
30. Any, ANY bigotry taken to this murderous extreme
"left unchecked results in disaster"

How about an Office of the Special Envoy for Monitoring and Combating Bigotry?

Perhaps I could get behind that one.
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Obviously, because there are *some* bigotries being encouraged
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Like cooking Islamic children with white phosphorus
Done with a Hoo Rah by a bunch of rustic troops who escaped their single wide trailers.
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. And gay-bashing, and hunting "illegals," and...
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. Always a scapegoat in Rove's bag of tricks
Chimpanzee bush's Josef Goebbels
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Rove isn't as skilled...and it might not have anything to do with Rove
It might have nothing at all to do with any organized mastermind...just people doing what people do, falling for a meme that is convenient to the current administration.

Tucker
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. Could be
Maybe I give too much credit to the "dark side"
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
32. This just feels really wrong.. and wierd.
I'm not comfortable with this, and I can't put my finger on why. Do we have a czar for anti-homosexual bigotry? Or race? Why a religion? Why does the govt have an envoy to deal with a relgious group? So much for separation of church and state, and so much for smaller govt.

So, am I missing something? Is this something that is really necessary? This feels like something more involved with current Iran events and the PNAC push to war with Iran, and with Israel trying to push the US into war with Iran.
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. Please read Sepp's post...please, please don't take the bait
This is exactly the reaction the fringier elements of the far-right are counting on, *and have been setting up for for years*.

Tucker
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UncleSepp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
39. This separates anti-Jewish hate from other forms of hate.
This is what it does. People who feel anti-Jewish hate already will be further inflamed. People who feel compassion for all, and who have a sense of justice, will go through these stages:

Nobody should be hated for who they are.
All people are equally deserving of respect.
"The Jews" have been separated from everybody else by the creation of this special envoy.
"The Administration" and "The Jews" have colluded to create such an office, to put "The Jews" in a special position, above other people in their victimhood.
Who the hell are they, to put themselves above everyone else? What about the X and the Y and the Z?

Combine that with the mistrust of the current administration:

The Administration wants me to feel x, therefore, I will feel the opposite of x.

The result is this:

Anti-Jewish feeling gets too much attention, when so many others are suffering. Reports of anti-Jewish activities are probably just more administration propaganda, and it takes away from attention that should be paid to others. Suspect anyone who tells you that Jews are being abused! It's all just part of what they want you to think, so think for yourself, don't be a sheep, and don't pay attention to anti-Semitic activities...

I am the second to the last person on this Earth to tell anyone what to think or feel or do. All I have to offer is something I ripped off from someone else. Be compassionate. Nobody deserves to be treated badly. One demeans oneself by treating another as less-than, no matter who that person is. There is no dichotomy. Combating anti-Jewish activity DOES NOT mean that one does not also combat anti-Arab, anti-Muslim, anti-Mexican, anti-Christian, anti-Gay, anti-Black, anti-Anybody activity.

Do not internalize the conflict. Refuse to participate in it. Refuse the division being presented as unalterable fact. Do not be part of the segregating, the dividing, the pulling-apart. Be a part of the wholeness. Understand that building that wholeness in the face of division and hate is not the easy path, devoid of conflict. The way of no conflict in a time of injustice is not the righteous way, but the way of a coward. Be brave. Meet the conflict in the world, and inside yourself. Look deeply into your own thoughts and emotions, and ask not just what you feel, but why. Your reflexes and surface feelings are being played upon now. Understand that, and look deeper. Refuse to be manipulated. You are free. Remain free, and in doing so, lead others to freedom.

PS,I don't expect anyone to just swallow my line of crap. It's my opinion, and it's worth what you paid for it. I don't know how to put political and social opinions into any other form than a tirade. That's what I do. Just because I present it as truth, doesn't mean I really believe that it is The Truth. Anyhow, I think I'll go stick my head in a glass of Fin du Monde - it somehow seems appropriate. Flame on, I'll be back tomorrow in my asbestos boxer shorts. :-)
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Copperred Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #39
43. Fire with Fire..... DEMAND FEDERAL VOTING STANDARDS



The punch line.....

Those who would urge such Special envoyships to be removed based on a sound reasoning of the Constitution will be smeared as anti-semitic, or anti-whatever the flavor of the Envoyship is....LMAO

Ultimately, this anti-semetic Envoyship is very specific to Western White Christian society and its historical persecution of Jews and how that plays today in the minds such masses- which is to create fear and often un-necessary guilt that is then easily used to control. It confirms, in my opinion at least, that their are very narrow US interest groups that feel the US should be fully indoctrinated with "old world European" issues that are technically not part of pur countries past.

This will surely stir up more anger, most legitametly from the U.S. black population, as they are the single most discriminated group in the history of the United States up to today, with the exception of the Native Americans who, given their relative complete wipeout, no longer exist for political purposes. Interesting enough, I heard just such remarks from a Black activist sitting on a public forum in Chicago 2 weeks ago about how for the Blacks to get anything out of the US government is almost impossible, yet the Jews, who were never obliterated by this country have been able to convince everyone that the US some how owes them something and they get everything they ask for. For the Blacks, who have very long term issues with this great country of ours, it's a very real smack in the face.

In the end, a good history book on all of this will be usefull...

----------------------------------------------------

The single greatest issue we face:

If a villager in India can vote with confidence, why not you!!!!!!

Demand Federal Election Reform with fully open source and verifiable systems.

THIS IS THE SINGLE ISSUE THAT CAN BRING NEW LEADERSHIP TO WASHINGTON IN SPADES.

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UncleSepp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Divide and conquer.
As you pointed out, no matter what one group has such an envoyship, other groups will be resentful because they haven't got one, too. It makes a wonderfully sharp wedge between groups who should be working together. Don't fall for it.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
45. This is worthy of late Sen. Wm Proxmire's Golden Fleece Award
A PR post that will be used as part of Bush's Middle East crusade to fulfill what his sees as his Messianic destiny. Published reports disclosed that Bush sees himself as the liberator of Iran. I am certain that he also sees himself as appointed by G-d as the Great Protector of Israel, in order to fulfill Christian Bible prophecies.
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