To spank or not to spank

[Taverner]

I'll list my bias upfront: I'm TOTALLY anti-spank. I think it's barbaric, and I would even go as far as to say it's abuse. I think it also teaches a child that bigger, stronger using brute force always gets its way.

And as a source of discipline, it's totally ineffective. Time out chairs, nose-knees-toes and other variations on time out work much better, in that they chance your child state of mind from fight or flight (which spanking just perpetuates) to a calmer state.

[rbnyc]

1. Spanking Children-Never; Spanking Hubby-Almost Every Night!

But seriously, spanking teaches children to avoid being spanked--not the difference between right and wrong. It also teaches children that it's ok to get your way or make your point by using physical force against another person. And punishing bad behavior is just not as effective as rewarding good behavior.

[sui generis]

2. define spank

1. a huge ritual involving arcane positions, multiple strikes with or without a spanking implement or

2. a swat on the rear

BTW I disagree with you. Children do not get to negotiate when their safety is involved. Sometimes getting their attention requires getting their attention, immediately. And there are other things that they learn besides your "brute force" argument. A judicious swat creates a negative association to the event, provided you aren't wandering around waling away on the kid every time it would be notable the one or two times you did it, and that you didn't do it purely out of malice or frustration.

I don't think a formal "spanking" is a good idea, regardless, but I'm not throwing out any weapon - and there is definitely an age beyond which I wouldn't even think of giving a child a swat on the rear.

On principle, because many people CAN'T differentiate or choose wisely or moderately, I don't think it should be condoned.

this thread smells just a wee bit of flammable material . . .

[John Q. Citizen]

17. I wouldn't quibble with your points except for the flamewar

material aspect. People have strong attitudes about how children should be raised and that is often reflected in their posts.

Your other points seem reasonable to me.

[John Q. Citizen]

3. As a single father of three elementary school aged kids,

there have been times when I felt like spanking.

However, hitting people to get them to behave as you might wish doesn't work well in the long run. It's kind of like punching out your neighbor when their dog poops on your lawn; It might make you feel good in the short term, but it's not a very good strategy in the long run.

I also don't want to teach my kids to solve their problems by hitting people, and that's what spanking is. The parents who really freak me out are the ones who spank kids for hitting their siblings. Is that schitzo or what?

I use time outs, loss of TV or phone privileges, or grounding to enforce the rules and it works very well. I have great kids who are easy to be with and who's friends parents all tell me repeatedly what nice young people they are.

[William Bloode]

4. I don't like to spank,

But sometimes it may be one of the only effective options. I talk with my children first and always try non-violent punishments first. But if you have an overly willful child you may have to use a spanking as a last resort. Basically i'm saying if you tell your child your grounded and they tell you no they are not and continue to do as they please a swift kick(or the threat of) may entice them to get back in line.

Some children behave better than others. I have two children, one i have never had to spank. A good talking to and alternative punishment works great with this child. The other one is much more willful and conniving. This one often figures that they will do as they feel like regardless of what i say, so once and awhile the other one needs a bit extra incentive.

Another point is as a parent these days you have to be willing to do what it takes to hold your child in line. In this day and time you as a parent are liable for his behavior and could well end up with a law suit or even in jail over you child actions.

[Dora]

5. Why poll this?

I'm anti-spank.

I think I've seen two long-winded threads on this topic explode into flame since I joined only a year ago. It seems like it's an effort to stir up controversy in the ranks.

So, seriously... why poll this?

[Taverner]

6. Because it's poll-worthy

And bursting into flames is not always a bad thing...

If you cannot defend your convictions, then they aren't really convictions then...

[bertha katzenengel]

7. I have extremely strong feelings about this.

In short: a young (say, ages 2-8) child must rely upon a parent for everything, but especially for unconditional love and support and acceptance. Then the parent hits the child. The child is expected to go to that parent for unconditional love and support and acceptance?

[Taverner]

9. I agree 100% Bertha

[bertha katzenengel]

10. Even when they kick you in the eye?

;)

[Taverner]

12. Wasn't his fault

He was just rasslin with daddy :)

[bertha katzenengel]

13. What a sweet mental picture.

If I'd been the kid in that situation I would've had the tar whaled right outta me for that. Any wonder why I feel the way I do? :hi:

[Taverner]

14. awww that sucks

He didnt even know he did it at the time...I can't blame him for kicking me.

[bertha katzenengel]

15. in my book you're a good dad

:yourock:

[WindRavenX]

8. totally anti-spank here

(Just on children, heh) :evilgrin:


Mum and dad never used spanking to punish me, but when I was in danger, a soft, non-damaging strike to pull me aside was used; this left no mark.
This second option is not used in schools; the first one (punishment) is and I feel strongly against using that. If punishment must be used isolate the child from the classroom by sending him/her to a time out room or principals room instead of humiliate and hurt him/her in front of the class.

my 2 cents.

[SheilaT]

11. What kids learn from being spanked

is that it's okay for a big person to hit a little person.

And if their safety is involved, spanking is definitely not the way to go. Remove the young child from the unsafe place.

When my two sons were learning to walk, I had an absolutely inflexible rule that they held my hand when crossing a street or driveway or parking lot. There were a lot of times when I carried a crying, kicking child, but I never relented. By the time they were three, maybe earlier, they'd ALWAYS stop when the sidewalk ended and take my hand. In fact, the younger one would take my hand until he was at least ten, and I know he didn't even realize he was doing it.

For those who approve spanking, at what age to you stop spanking, and why?

[sui generis]

16. a swat is not a spanking

but to answer your question, right around four years - whenever reasoning becomes more effective. A swat is not first choice and certainly never something to be done if the parent is frustrated or angry, and not on every kid, and rarely at that, or it's not effective. Certainly, formal "spanking" as corporal punishment I don't agree with. There are much more effective "consequences" you can administer than spanking.

Anyway, as a prior poster stated, it varies with the kid - some probably never even get to the point where you give a swat.

I would not tolerate a kicking, violent child though - but if I thought the need to "swat" a kid was becoming a habit, I would certainly have to check my own head first.

[SheilaT]

18. A swat is not a spanking

is quite true and is one of the core issues actually at stake here. Many people will include a swat within the definition of spanking, others won't.

And some kids are simply more difficult and more oppositional than others, and figuring out the best way to shape any kid's behavior is a real art.

Another subtext of these to spank or not to spank debates is the entire issue of discipline. Far too many who are enthusiastic about spanking assume that if you don't spank regularly you're not enforcing any kind of discipline or behavioral standards. It's not an all or nothing thing. Not to mention, it's possible never to lay a hand on a kid and be verbally and psychologically abusive.

As one wise friend of mine (herself the mother of three boys) once said to me, You won't destroy a kid or ruin his life with one particular episode of bad parenting on your part. I agree. "Good enough" parenting is what we all hope to achieve.

[Jamastiene]

19. I wish there was an in between option on the poll and

a tongue in cheek sort of humorous option. I'd actually have a dilemma on which to click on then. I agree with you up to a point, but I'll have to admit, I think one good spanking is all that is needed with a kid. After that, you can just threaten it and they'll do what you tell them. Or at least that's what my mother has always told me my opinion is. I mean you are there to look out for them and keep them from doing stuff that'll hurt themselves or others.

I got my butt tore up once for almost sticking a bobby pin in a live receptacle. I digress. I'm wrong. It didn't work. I still was foolish enough to stick my tongue in a light socket (with power going through it and me once I decided to lick 120v to see if the power was turned on) a few years later. So, maybe you are right. I can maybe see times when a parent has had enough of the whining and yelling and temper tantrums though. I guess to each their own. I certainly don't think anyone should abuse kids. I know most of the people I know that were spanked tended to go ahead and do stuff anyhow again and again.