I've been cheating while my husband is away on business.

[JackBeck]

He quit smoking a few years ago and has been wonderful about sticking to it. I've gradually gotten down to about 5 cigarettes a day.

We've just bought our first place in a brand new condo building. I made a promise that I would never smoke in the new place and ever since then, have gone outside to smoke. But now that he's gone, I feel like cheating.

We have a spare bedroom and pretty much the kitty box is in there. I've been smoking out of the window and not going outside. It's been in the 20's around here recently.

(Opinions about smoking aside) Am I cheating?

[petronius]

1. Did you make that promise to him or to you?

If to him, you are breaking a promise, although a fairly trivial one since I'd guess the point of the promise was to avoid tempting him, which is moot if he's gone.

It certainly doesn't count as 'cheating,' with all the baggage that that term implies...

[JackBeck]

2. I did post a loaded topic.

But it's more out of convenience at this point.

I'm smoking practically hanging out the window instead of going up to the roof.

[Radio_Lady]

33. Indeed. It's loaded with pitfalls for you and for him. (WARNING: GRAPHIC PHOTOS)

You: A future of lung sacks collapsing and being unable to revive themselves. Black lungs -- really -- have you ever seen the pictures? Lungs are supposed to be pink.

http://www.quitsmokinghelp.net/smokers_lungs.html


NON-SMOKER versus SMOKER WITH LUNG CANCER (WHITE AREAS) AND CARBON DEPOSITS (BLACKENED PART)


Emphysema and COPD. They'll get you if cancer doesn't. Miserable diseases. You can't get enough oxygen to move around, or live.

Get a grip. See my later post on what happened to my ex-husband. Your spouse has given you a great gift (no side-stream smoke). You're the problem for him, too.

[JackBeck]

38. While your concern is noted and appreciated, you do realize the side effects

from drinking alcohol, drinking soda, eating foods cooked in trans fat, breathing the polluted air...I could go on...ever open a bag of snack foods and indulge?

I would love to hear things that you're not guilty of indulging in.

[Radio_Lady]

51. I'm done. You're rationalizing, and until you hit bottom (or get smarter),

I'll just slip away.

For your information, I am in top health, have had a lot of tests this year at 67 years of age, and all is great. As I like to say, after fifty years of age, they check all your dipsticks. My only exposure to cigarettes came about as side-stream smoke in my early years and with my ex-husband (just died from lung cancer -- see other post).

I walk and swim and maintain a good diet with lots of vitamins (most of the time... with just an occasional slip). My biggest problem is osteoarthritis, but heat and exercise make it feel much better. I could lose some weight, but actually, I've outlasted many of my friends from high school who were smokers. I know that, because I just attended my 50th High School Reunion, and I'm pretty proud of myself.

I'm sure I don't have any great chance of getting lung cancer, but I'm not actively working on it, as you are. It is caused by smoking, asbestos, mine dust, and blue dust from denim manufacturing. Oh, by the way, my mother smoked and died young, and so did my father. Lots of Camels, Lucky (!) Strikes, Old Gold (aren't these just charming names?), and Marlboros. I'm sure you know that the Marlboro man died of lung cancer.

Frankly, I wish Sir Walter Raleigh had flushed that shit down the toilet. Lung cancer is still one of the top killers in the nation.

I truly hope you find the path to renouncing that disgusting and foul habit. Good night and good luck.

[JackBeck]

58. I'm sorry for your loss and I lost both of my parents at a young age.

How do we really know what contributes to our death?

How does a person who smokes two packs a day live longer than a health nut?

All our immune systems are different and react to these germs in a different manner.

Do you wanna break it down by ethnicity, gender, and sexuality, or just use the figures you wanna believe because of your situation?

[Az]

61. So you are claiming that smoking does not place your health at risk?

Look. You have the right to smoke. But if you are doing so under the notion that its not a risk then.... yeah, people are going to be concerned about you. Not just for your own sake but also because you are spreading misinformation and may be hurting other people in doing so.

Yes, there are all sorts of things that increase the risks in our life. Smoking is a big freaking one of them. We should work on limiting the others as well. But smoking is a pretty easy one to ID. So spreading a delusion by suggesting its not as dangerous as it is amounts to a pretty bad social practice. Expect to be met with resistance to that.

[Radio_Lady]

65. Thank you, Jack Beck, and I am sorry for your losses, too. Have you ever checked www.realage.com?

I have no idea how old you are, or whether you have had to look at your own mortality squarely in the eye. If you take their test, be honest and see what it says. I'm going to re-take it to, and let's compare notes.

"How do we really know what contributes to our death?"

Doctors do autopsies on people and can pretty well figure out what contributes to our deaths. We can figure out that obese people put more strain on their hearts, sedentary people are less healthy than active people, people who eat junk food are usually less healthy than others. Read health bulletins, talk to your doctor, check on the older people in our civilization who live a long time. There are certainly known contributors to our death. I'm sorry to tell you that smoking has been known to cause premature death for decades.

"How does a person who smokes two packs a day live longer than a health nut?"

Maybe if the health nut has some predisposition to another disease that goes unnoticed? Or who slips on the ice and hits his head (like Dr. Atkins)? Or who gets hit by a bus? Or beaten to death by a spouse? I have no idea whether that is a real question.

"All our immune systems are different and react to these germs in a different manner."

Immune systems work best when unhampered by other serious difficulties. Smoking any cigarettes may weaken your immune system -- probably does. Do any of your friends or acquaintances have HIV or AIDS? That is one of the scenarios for poor or weak immune systems.

"Do you wanna break it down by ethnicity, gender, and sexuality, or just use the figures you wanna believe because of your situation?"

No, I'm not going to bother. There are several web sites that do this, and you can research them as quickly as I can.

I'd be interested in what you find out at www.realage.com!

[BikeWriter]

44. oh. shit.

[Az]

3. I was going to pass on commenting on this thread ... but

I noticed the advertisement at the top of the page. It was for cancer treatment and was asking if you had been diagnosed with cancer. So yeah.... I would say you are cheating. Yourself.

[JackBeck]

4. I hope you advocate for people moving out of NYC, as well.

Lots of cancerous toxins in the air that people breathe in (smokers aside) on a daily basis.

But they don't have a choice, right? Might as well move to a healthier place than work in one of the most productive financial areas in the United States.

Why not work more toward reducing the toxicity of transportation emissions in one of the biggest commuter cities in the country?

On Edit: we tend to try and shy away from flame wars in the Lounge.

[Az]

5. Its not an either or situation

I can express concern for a fellow human being harming themself and work toward better air quality for all at the same time. And I am by no means insisting you have to stop smoking. I know how addictive it is. But you are cheating yourself. Pounding little nails in your coffin with each puff. And I don't have to like that. I have to tolerate that you may wish to continue doing it. But I definately don't have to like it.

[JackBeck]

7. But isn't living in an environment like LA, Atlanta, or NYC similar?

You can add your own urban examples, if you like.

Give me examples of how smoking 5 cigarettes a day is more harmful to your health than living in a polluted urban environment if you're a non-smoker.

[Az]

9. Not really the point

Its your life. I am not going to force you to do anything. You calculate the risks you introduce into your life. If you were pounding your head against a wall repeatedly I would investigate why you were doing it and advise you to stop it. You can tell me to go stick it and I will walk away. Same is true of smoking. Here is all I can offer you. :hug:

[JackBeck]

13. I would never let you force me to do anything.

Go back to what I just asked you.

What about the millions of people living in urban environments that are daily bombarded with cancerous causing particles?

Where's your outrage?

I choose to smoke no more than 5 smokes a day and you muster up this massive indigence when thousands of people in urban environments are being bombarded with even more toxic substances on a daily basis.

Stop the personal attacks and look at the bigger picture, my friend.

[Az]

14. Attacks?

Dude. Ease up there. Your grinding metal. I have not attacked you. You are playing a bait and switch game in order to avoid dealing with some issue you have. It seems to me you are not even trying to face your own issues.

[JackBeck]

18. How about answering the question?

About living in an urban environment.

[Radio_Lady]

57. Jack Beck, this is total bullshit. But I've heard it before, many, many times,

on the radio, from smokers everywhere when I try to explain what they're doing, and mostly, from my two sisters-in-law, who have both been smoking since they were teenagers.

One grew up in suburban Boston, and her voice is like gravel. Funny, I don't think she ever considers Boston a very polluted place. She works in an office and not exposed to asbestos or that stuff. She's skinny as a rail and doesn't want to quit because she's afraid she will get fat. She takes allergy shots and tells me she has "bronchitis" that won't go away. She is 63, and quite sure she will never get lung cancer, COPD, or emphysema. She got a chest Xray recently and bragged that her lungs were "just fine." PS. Lung cancer cannot be seen in the lungs UNTIL IT IS TOO LATE TO OPERATE -- STAGE 4.

So, what are her chances of dying of pollution vs. chances that she'll get sick from smoking? IS SHE SERIOUSLY DELUDED?

The second sister is 70 years old. Lives in suburban Virginia, near Washington, DC. Hey, maybe that is a polluted place, too. She is still smoking, and living with that little oxygen tube under her nose. She is confined to bed, due to endless pain in various parts of her body. She smokes, she says, to relieve "stress." But she still says cigarettes didn't cause her problem. IS SHE SERIOUSLY DELUDED?

ARE YOU AS DELUDED AS THEY ARE? I HAVE HEARD THAT NICOTINE IS WORSE THAN HEROIN. IT MUST BE AWFUL TO HAVE TO ARGUE AWAY YOUR ADDICTIONS. I really feel very sorry for you.

In peace,

Radio_Lady

[JackBeck]

63. Excuse me, try to be a bit less condescending.

"I really feel sorry for you."

Please try not to project your experiences onto mine.

You're trying to make me walk in your shoes.

Have you ever thought about what I've seen?

[Radio_Lady]

72. Not condescending. Just really feel sorry for you. It comes from having

heard my children cry that their biological father is dying from lung cancer at age 70. That happened on my ex-husband's birthday this year, March 23, 2006. What a birthday present! They were supposed to be operating on his gall bladder. They opened him up, and closed him up. They also gave him 4 to 6 months to live.

What a handsome tall dark man I married in 1963 and loved for eleven years! He carried his cigarettes rolled up in his T-shirt sleeve. We thought it was cute then, but so did the Grim Reaper!

My daughter was 38 on October 9th, and my son will turn 37 on December 10th. (His father didn't live to see that particular birthday.)

He made it to eight months, and died last Friday, Dec. 1, 2006.

Through the past eight months, I look at everyone -- old and young -- whom I see smoking, or hear about it -- and either say -- or feel without saying, "I feel sorry for you." I've even spoken to a few of them. I know it's usually hopeless, because addiction to anything is very difficult to shake or even acknowledge.

I don't really know what you've seen. But I have walked in your shoes. Sort of. In the 1960s, I became addicted to pills, and in the 1980s, I was addicted to a person. Drug addiction and love addiction have all of the attributes of nicotine addiction. I worked my way out of each of them, with the help and support of other people, some damned good 12-step programs, as well as my doctors, nurses, and above all, my spouse. It wasn't easy.

So, you're preaching to the choir. Repeat: I feel sorry for you. Down that road lies a lot of pain. Think of what your partner will have to go through taking care of you.

Here's a picture of my daughter and my ex-husband together in May 2006, before he lost all of his hair. By the last week of his life, he had wasted away to 135 lbs. on a 5'll" frame.

[jobycom]

6. Or just quit smoking, and call it even.

:shrug: Smokers' denial cracks me up. Like watching fish jump on a line.

[JackBeck]

10. I smoke, at most., 5 cigarettes a day.

It's one of the things in life I enjoy.

You do know that the liver has to work overtime in order to get rid of the ethanol in alcohol?

I hope you don't ever have a drink from time to time.

[Az]

12. Um... Thats a lot of defensiveness going on there

Ease up. No one is calling you a horrible person. Everyone has the right to be a stupid as they want to be. But they also have to realize that their lives are connected to other people's lives and the stupid things they do may be cause for concern. People are going to make suggestions. Cuz they care. Not because they hate you. If they hated you they would tell you to lite up another cigarrete.

[JackBeck]

15. Never once mentioned "hate" in my post.

Nor was I being defensive. Nor did I imply that someone was calling me a "horrible person". WTF?

If you want to get into a discussion about the similarities between smoking and drinking, by all means, I would love to talk.

But to respond in such an aggressive manner, when all I did was state solid facts, is a but immature.

[Az]

17. Ok, there is definately miscommunication going on here

I am in no way attempting to convey any aggressive behaviour. The only emotion I am trying to convey is concern. I am sorry if it is coming through in some other way but I am reading back through my posts and I am finding it very difficult to figure out where you are getting that from. Meanwhile I am sensing a great deal of hostility from you. I suspect you are unaware of it. I have not stooped to any personal attacks but have just been called immature by you.

Now would you care to slow this down and figure out what each of us are saying to each other or are you committed to having a full blown knock down fight?

[JackBeck]

19. Post #12

[Az]

23. I was being inclusive

"Everyone has the right to be as stupid as they want to be" is a comment I make in many issues regarding personal rights. I can see how you may have taken it the wrong way. I appologise if that is what you are reacting to.

You have the right to smoke. I have the right to think its stupid. Its not a personal attack. Its an opinion. It doesn't mean I think you are a bad person. It just means I think you are making a bad choice. You may believe you have valid reasons for choosing it. It doesn't mean I have to agree. Only that I have to respect that you have your opinions just like I have mine.

It is well established that smoking any quantity leads to an increased health risk. You have the right to take that chance. I have the right to be concerned and maintain that opinion that it is an unworthy risk. But I do not have the right to snatch the cigarrete from your lips.

[idgiehkt]

20. "(Opinions about smoking aside) "

that's in the OP. I think this was intended as a light-hearted post.

[JackBeck]

22. Which is why I didn't want this to be a flame fest!

Ding Ding!

idgiehkt actually read my post!!

Thank You!

[Az]

24. The only reason I made a comment

Was because there was an advert asking if "you had been diagnosed with cancer" at the top of the page. I found the synchronicity interesting and decided to comment on it. I had no intention of flaming this post. That it turned out that way is astounding to me.

[Oeditpus Rex]

28. It's astounding to you because

apparently, you aren't a smoker.

We're frequently lectured on something we know as well as we know our names: smoking is bad for us.

And we're fucking sick of it.

[Az]

31. I get that

Which is why I mentioned I was going to pass on this thread. But there was this big advert blinking "Have you been diagnosed with Cancer" sitting right there in front of me. I elevated the impetus to post my comment. I was even sympathetic about how I know it is difficult to quit.

Smokers have to live with the increased health risks and the increased concerns of others. Both are natural.

[Oeditpus Rex]

34. But you can't understand how your 'concern'

could be taken as another slam when you say things like "You're cheating yourself" and "coffin nails"?

You didn't have to "elevate the impetus" to do that.

[Az]

36. Slam?

Good grief. This is getting a bit ridiculous.

You are killing yourself. You know it. I know it. People who care are concerned about it. We will from time to time mention that we are concerned that you are killing yourself. Ignoring it doesn't stop you from killing yourself. You have a right to kill yourself. I have a right to say you shouldn't kill yourself. Get over it.

[Oeditpus Rex]

42. You're no more 'concerned' than my ass is a Toyota

You just want to be sanctimonious, as you were last night when you insulted me without provocation or even knowing who the hell I am.

Fortunately, the admins have seen fit to provide us with an "ignore" feature for the likes of you. Buh-bye! :hi:

[Az]

45. WTF?

What the hells did I say to you yesterday to insult you? Good grief. I go to extremes not to insult people as I find it ridiculous.

Wow.... just freaking wow. WTF?

[Az]

53. Was it the lil Bush post?

GOod grief man. That was a joke. Wow. Just freaking wow.

[JackBeck]

41. What if it was blinking "Avoid Liver Inflammation"?

Would you have been here telling everyone to stop drinking alcohol?

[Az]

48. Get over yourself

I do not make a habit of commenting on others habits. I endorse their right to partake in anything they want. The entire freaking reason I said anything was because of the advert asking if you had been diagnised with cancer. But you seem to be itching for a fight. I have been trying to back away from any fighting but you don't seem to be able to let it go. Now I am being accused of being immature, annoying and all sorts of other insults.

Just get over your freaking self.

[JackBeck]

54. You called smokers stupid.

I didn't start a fight, you did, by calling my responses "smoker's denial" and "everyone has the right to be stupid".

Just look at your own words and stop acting like a martyr.

As far as "commenting on others habits", should women not engage in sex because of HPV?

I could give you many examples of behaviors that you could find objectionable that could lead to less than desirable consequences.

[Az]

55. Wow, I appologised for the stupid comment

I use that line in any rights discussion I find myself it. I apply it to myself as well. Everyone and I mean everyone does something that others think is stupid.

I never mentioned smoker's denial.

You have a major chip on your shoulder. I have been struggling to avoid being dragged into a silly fight where none was intended but you and a couple other smokers seem to be itching for a fight. I keep trying to back peddle and avoid confrontation. But it seems to be what you want.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

32. *puts down Camel light*

:applause:

[Oeditpus Rex]

35. ty, ty

I just hate being told over and over what I already know damned well.

[Az]

37. There are two ways to avoid that

Stop hanging out near social creatures that may become concerned about your health or stop smoking.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

39. I just avoid hanging out around annoying people.

:shrug:

[Az]

43. Ok that is freaking the limit

I do not make a habit of advising people to stop smoking. I know full well how tough it is and I fully freaking realize its their choice. I merely made a comment becuase of the freaking advert commenting about cancer.

Get over yourselves.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

46. Hey, I have my ads turned off, plus I use AdBlock.

My internet experience is unmarred by stupid ads.

[Az]

50. Yippie skippie hurray

You are a freaking genius. Give yourself a cookie... no wait you have your cookies turned off don't you.

Look. Smoke all you want. I do not make a habit of telling people not to smoke. Are you getting this? I am not one of those sanctimonious people constantly telling you to stop smoking. This is the first freaking time I have mentioned anything of the sort to anyone in 10 freaking years. And this is the crap I get?

[Evoman]

64. As much as I love all of you, I gotta agree with Az here, guys.

You guys are beating on him for no good reason. If I posted a thread on how I just ate 10 of those Hot Rods, and washed it down with a liter of pepsi, I would hope you guys would be concerned as well. And really, Az wasn't even making a judgment on anybody...it is pure defensiveness.

And before you call me out for hating smokers, let me simply say this....I actually did just eat 10 Hot rods...like about 80 grams of fat, in one sitting. And washed it down with 355 ml of pepsi. Not only that, but I had surgery a while back, and haven't worked out in weeks. So I have no right to judge anyone, hehe.

I'm just lucky I have a fast metabolism and low cholesteral, or I would be talking to you all with a balloon in my veins.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

66. I just want to know what a Hot Rod is.

:shrug:

I have a feeling it's something I can't eat.

[Evoman]

67. They are sticks of beef...kind of like pepperoni sticks.

Half of their mass is fat. I'm pretty sure the other half is salt. They barely classify as food...but fuck, they are goddamn tasty. They are made by Schneiders, I think.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

69. That would explain why I had no clue what they are.

The only meat I eat is fish. I've been pescarian and sometimes vegetarian for the last 8 years or so.

[Evoman]

75. Who are you to fucking judge me? Huh? Just because I'm a meat

eater, doesn't mean I'm a terrible person. I don't know why you pescarians have to be so fucking annoying.

Just kidding! Just thought I would see how defensiveness worked for me, heh. Anyways, bout five years back I tried to give up meat...and I managed it for awhile, but I just couldn't do it long term. I crave meat so much. And I have such quick metabolism, and such a busy schedule, that eating vegatarian was hard for me. And when I started working out, it was worse. I actually ate a small child on my way home from the gym once.

Plus I'm addicted to meat. Like smokers are to cigs, except more psychological and less physical. Okay, thats a cop out. But still.

[jobycom]

8. Ask yourself how you'd feel if it were him doing it.

If it wouldn't bother you, then you probably aren't cheating. Seems like hubby would forgive your efforts to avoid pneumonia. Though you're much more likely to die from the smoking. If I were him, I'd feel more cheated that you were trying to die early on me. :)

[idgiehkt]

11. yikes

I bet the way you are doing it probably not much of the smoke is getting inside the house. But you gonna get caught, just you wait and see...

How will he react if he finds out?

:hug:

[eyesroll]

16. I'd be furious if someone smoked in my house.

Partner/spouse, guest, handyman...doesn't matter.

My definition of "cheating," in just about any situation: Doing something without your partner's knowledge or consent that you know you couldn't do WITH their knowledge or consent.

So, if you know your husband would say no if you asked if you could smoke out of the window...yes, you're cheating. If you genuinely believe he wouldn't care if you did it while he's out of town, you're not cheating (but you are possibly deluding yourself).

No, it doesn't rise to the level of infidelity-type cheating, or embezzlement-type cheating, but it's still a breach of trust.

Knock it off.

[JackBeck]

21. Best answer so far.

Thank You.

[Radio_Lady]

30. Stop cheating. Yourself. Give up the habit if you possibly can.

My ex-husband died last Friday of complications from lung cancer -- too young -- because I was not successful in getting him to give up smoking. I nagged him for almost eleven years. But his widow wasn't exactly successful, either. He took up a pipe. Great. Now she has to go it alone because of his addiction.

They buried him on Monday.

Don't think it can't happen to you.

Try to get into a group. Go to a doctor. Get on the patch. Cut down if you can't do it cold turkey. Do anything.

It may save your life.

Sincerely,

Radio_Lady in Oregon

[Omphaloskepsis]

25. I bet he will be able to tell..

Enough will drift back in for him to tell with his pure nose. Put your smoky clothes in the room and blame the smell on them. We don't realize how bad we smell. Fess up.. Or find a good lie.

[JackBeck]

27. We have a washer and dryer.

I've already planned maintenance.

[Az]

29. As a smoker you can't smell it any more

But none smokers and exsmokers .... well you will have to do a couple passes before the smell is gone.

[Radio_Lady]

40. Wash as much as you want. It's in your walls, your carpeting, your plaster or dry wall...

in your clothes, his clothes, cardboard, paper, even toilet paper... should I go on?

[BikeWriter]

47. ...and hair.

[JackBeck]

49. You'd be amazed at the complements I get for my hair.

And I smoke.

[Radio_Lady]

52. Go visit the cancer unit of your local hospital. It's not so much the smell of their hair,

it's just that they can't breathe any more.

Your choice!

[BikeWriter]

59. Ha ha ha! If you smoke many non-smokers can smell your hair...

I smoked for thirty years, then quit. I'm sixty-one and if I am around smokers I can smell nicotine in my own hair and clothing.

[JackBeck]

60. Well I'm half your age and understand product and know how to use it.

I can continue to brag if need be.

[Az]

62. Do you recommend smoking for other people?

Or do you think they should avoid it and not get addicted in the first place?

[grace0418]

26. He'll be able to smell it anyway.

If he's been a non-smoker for a few years he will be able to smell it in the house, even if you can't. I had a roommate who thought she could get away with that when my other roommate and I weren't home. She'd smoke out the window, light candles, spray air freshener, etc. But we could easily smell the ciggie smoke as soon as we walked in the door. She couldn't believe it, and we couldn't seem to convince her that smoking had deadened her sense of smell.

[donheld]

56. I hope he pulls your pants down and spanks you

:D

[JackBeck]

68. I'll make sure he does when he gets home in two weeks.

Fun will be had by all.

(at least I will when this originally playful thread dies)

:spank:

[Beausoir]

70. I am/was in a smililar situation. I started smoking again and smoked in my

brand new house. Upstairs, in my office and my away room. I did it exactly three times, with the windows open. And I can still smell it. It makes me sick.

He will be able to smell it. Whether or not he will feel betrayed is not for me to comment on.

Just know that the smell will linger for months. Even if it was just a couple of smokes...the smell will linger, no matter what you do.

[JackBeck]

71. Those are the things that I'm struggling with.

No matter how much I clean the place, when he gets back after two weeks, will he still be able to tell.

I should probably still go to the roof.

Thanks, Beausoir, for the non-judgmental advice.

[Beausoir]

73. Well, honey, I would never judge you for smoking!

I am struggling with the demon right now. I've only been quit for 3 days.

Perhaps a couple of saucers of white vinegar, placed around, would help. But it permeates the fabrics of your window treatments. That's hard to get rid of.

But yes, you must smoke outside from now on because it is just too stinky in the house.

[Radio_Lady]

74. Who is judging whom? You only take advice from smokers?

Other former addicts don't count? I'm feeling rejected! And I'm not even homophobic, either! Damn.

You know what this sounds like? This argument is about trust. What if you had said, "I'm having sex with another man, but I'm only doing it when my partner's away, and it's only once every trip. Oh, and he's only giving me one B.J. I don't give anything to him! No penetration..." Still about trust, huh? How stupid can this argument get!

You're breaking trust, you're compromising your relationship, you're twisting the words of others trying to get you to see the folly in your logic -- all for what? The leaf of a plant sucked in as smoke into your young lungs.

Smoke outside, smoke on the roof, smoke anywhere you want! See if I care. You'll get your come-uppance when your partner returns!

Sounds like you're 30 years old more or less, if you're half the age of 61. Oh, well, I thought I knew everything and I was invincible then too. You'll learn a lot when you're a few years older. Maybe you'll even remember being beaten over the head by a couple of old fogies twice your age! And by now, I really don't give a shit if you think I'm being condescending.

Buh-bye. I'll post my Real Age tomorrow. It takes 1 - 2 hours to process, and it's 11:30 PM PT. I'm going to get some shut-eye...

Good night and good luck.

Radio_Lady in Oregon

[CaliforniaPeggy]

76. Locking

This thread has become a flamefest.

Respectfully submitted,
CaliforniaPeggy
DU Moderator