Right now the Dem Party is close to where Hoover was in 29.

[genius]

FDR wouldn't stand a chance of being nominated.

[aquart]

1. I love defeatist garbage in the dark of night.

[genius]

2. Hey, we need to get back on track - which is to the left.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Yep

that said, there are three places we can see ourselves at

1.- You mentioned one, 1929

2.- The whig fate (they were replaced by the GOP remember that... and if the DNC does not change.... can we say ... GREEN?)

3.- I hate to make comparisons but 1964 and Goldwater seem adecuate... that is what pushed the GOP partially back to some of its early 20th century roots, notice did not say its roots. So this could be good... can you say DFA take over of... DNC at local levels? This is the first step, or for left leaning activists to take over the party at the local level

At the same time we need to form Think Tanks (that has started) and to take back the media, AAR and others are jsut the proto stage of this.

:-)

[njmst12]

4. We are not too far of track

We just need to move closer to the center on these moral issues and use morality and values to explain our stance on pocketbook issues. But offcourse we have to communicate very strongly a position against gay marriage. and a position for civil unions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Ok ,let me morph up into something I surely generally

speaking do not, which is to get myself into the mindset of the right

Gay Marriage for them is ANY sort of union, even civil union

There are many layers to this onion, so let me just give you three of them as food for thought.

1.- Cheap Labor conservatives, if you give the right for a civil union (which incidentally I am fully in favor of), to gays, that means you also give them rights to benefits, this costs money. Cheap labor conservatives are not into expanding or extending rights to just about anybody, this is a money issue

2.- Separation of church and state, a civil union is a matter of the state... for many strict constructionists, there is NO separation of church or state, for surely you have heard the nation was founded on Christian prinicples (yes I know how ridicolous this is given the founding fathers were Deists, or at least a good percentage, but facts don't matter to this bunch.

3.- Some Gay Activist themselves, yes before getting the ability to have a nicely recognized church marriage, they should just fight for the civil union. Most are not into presing this beyond the civil side, but some are... and those are the ones giving lots of ammo to group two.

Now personally insofar as gay marriage is concerned, this is a civil matter and since terms matter, civil union is the term we should be using, not only for gay marrige but any gov'ment given licence to marry... that is a civil union, now when you go to Church et al and your priest, rabbi et al marry you, then it is becomea a marriage under the church, et al.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[leftofthedial]

6. I agree that FDR could not get nominated now by the Democratic Party

as currently constituted.

we must:

1. ensure that there are paper ballots everywhere.
2. completely replace the Democratic leadership or replace the party with some other organization, like MoveOn.
3. embrace progressive populism

[genius]

8. I agree. It wouldn't be hard to replace the Dem leadership

The DNC doesn't do much besides throw socials and back platforms. They don't determine who the nominees are anymore. A grass roots Democratic organization which is more inclusive could back more intelligent platforms and united those who have left with those who are afraid to leave because they know you need a party with lots of votes in order to win.

[Rhiannon12866]

10. Bush* is being compared to Hoover, not the Democrats

Clinton, a Democrat, left this country a record surplus, while Bush* has turned it into a record deficit, 4 1/2 trillion dollars, while enacting tax cuts in time of war, with record spending. This translates to a 51 trillion dollar fiscal gap, for the future. We are really in serious financial trouble, with disastrous repercussions for future generations. Bush* has bankrupted this nation. He needs to be called on this, and immediately. The Democrats, under Clinton, did amazingly well for us. Bush* blew it.:grr:

[liberalpragmatist]

11. Not a chance!

We lost the Presidential race by 3 points. Basically, that means that we were close to tied, and lost.

We only lost seats in the House b/c of Texas redistricting. In the Senate, we had problems b/c most of the seats up this year that were held by Democrats were in red states.

This country is still very evenly split. We're nowhere near disaster.