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zulchzulu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 12:40 PM Original message |
How the mainstream media treated the "stolen election" story in November 2004 |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 12:45 PM Response to Original message |
1. Where was Hillary - the fighter?? |
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BeFree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 12:56 PM Response to Reply #1 |
2. No evidence? |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 01:44 PM Response to Reply #2 |
4. Answer the questions |
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robinlynne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 05:02 PM Response to Reply #4 |
10. There is tons of evidence. just read a few books. |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 05:05 PM Response to Reply #10 |
12. Precincts and names |
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Fly by night (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 05:59 PM Response to Reply #12 |
23. It appears you have read nothing about the 2004 election. Tell me, is ignorance really blissful? |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 06:06 PM Response to Reply #23 |
25. Precincts and names, shouldn't be hard with all that's been written |
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Fly by night (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 07:36 PM Response to Reply #25 |
42. The evidence is contained in the references I listed. You asked for the evidence: now start reading |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 07:39 PM Response to Reply #42 |
43. no, it isn't |
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Fly by night (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 09:46 PM Response to Reply #43 |
70. The title of Conyers report, "What went wrong in Ohio", is an apt title. |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 08:43 AM Response to Reply #70 |
78. shrug |
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Fly by night (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 09:55 AM Response to Reply #78 |
79. One response, one last question and one analogy |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 12:08 PM Response to Reply #79 |
84. You are an activist for whom I have enormous admiration, |
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Fly by night (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 12:30 PM Response to Reply #84 |
88. Thanks. You might be right. |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 04:01 PM Response to Reply #79 |
92. trying not to repeat Febble's response |
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Fly by night (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 08:14 PM Response to Reply #79 |
98. To Feeble and OTOH -- one last comment |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 09:12 PM Response to Reply #98 |
99. urk |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-07-07 04:56 AM Response to Reply #98 |
105. What bothers me |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 08:41 PM Response to Reply #42 |
55. I've Read All Of It |
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FogerRox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 09:03 PM Response to Reply #25 |
59. Yawn... |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 09:41 PM Response to Reply #59 |
67. Yep, collecting evidence is tedious and boring |
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robinlynne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 12:03 AM Response to Reply #67 |
76. jsut google it. it's all available precincts, sworn statements, whatever you want. |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 10:54 AM Response to Reply #76 |
80. Hey, YOU are claiming stolen election |
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robinlynne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 11:43 AM Response to Reply #80 |
83. you're just too lazy to educate yourself. watch dan rather reports. on the internet. |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 12:17 PM Response to Reply #83 |
85. No, you want me to educate you |
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PATRICK (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 06:52 PM Response to Reply #10 |
33. the election was riddled with fraud |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 06:56 PM Response to Reply #33 |
34. 3 precincts, just give me 3 |
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PATRICK (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 07:12 PM Response to Reply #34 |
37. If you can unlock just three |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 07:17 PM Response to Reply #37 |
38. We didn't narrow ourselves |
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PATRICK (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 07:34 PM Response to Reply #38 |
40. I guess your |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 08:40 PM Response to Reply #40 |
54. That's the only way to overturn an election |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 10:59 PM Response to Reply #54 |
102. There is proof of these things -- the problem isn't a lack of proof -- it's a lack of investigation |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-07-07 06:23 AM Response to Reply #102 |
107. nu? |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-07-07 02:26 PM Response to Reply #107 |
114. Sure you can -- IF WE DO THE INVESTIGATIONS . . . . |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-07-07 02:39 PM Response to Reply #114 |
116. So.... |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-07-07 10:30 PM Response to Reply #116 |
117. Where do you usually get proof from? |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-08-07 04:16 AM Response to Reply #117 |
118. Well, I find the evidence |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-08-07 01:44 PM Response to Reply #118 |
122. Again, evidence has to be developed . . . investigated. It's not intentionally left |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-08-07 03:44 PM Response to Reply #122 |
123. Well, I'd take a skeptical view of Votescam |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-08-07 06:58 AM Response to Reply #114 |
119. I don't understand your answer |
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MissWaverly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 08:39 PM Response to Reply #33 |
53. thank you Patrick, best recap of 2004 I have read here |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-08-07 07:43 AM Response to Reply #10 |
120. Mark Crispin Miller's Fooled Again is outstanding! |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-08-07 08:16 AM Response to Reply #120 |
121. Fooled Again has great stuff, but real flaws |
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MissWaverly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 06:25 PM Response to Reply #4 |
28. here's some evidence |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 06:57 PM Response to Reply #28 |
35. What evidence? |
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MissWaverly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 08:31 PM Response to Reply #35 |
52. I think Ney was their in to the local Ohio politics |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 08:42 PM Response to Reply #52 |
56. You think?? |
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MissWaverly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 09:26 PM Response to Reply #56 |
64. Okay, maybe my tin hat is on too tight |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 07:01 PM Response to Reply #28 |
36. almost all of Ohio had paper trails |
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Fly by night (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 07:42 PM Response to Reply #36 |
44. How do you feel about the 50+ Ohio counties which discarded or otherwise destroyed ... |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 07:57 PM Response to Reply #44 |
47. I think it was a bad idea |
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Fly by night (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 09:54 PM Response to Reply #47 |
71. With the evidence destroyed in 50+ counties, it sure as hell would be hard to prove ... |
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MissWaverly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 08:30 PM Response to Reply #36 |
51. yes, but maybe Ney was a door for all those links to Tom Noe |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 08:43 PM Response to Reply #51 |
57. I'm sure not interested in covering for that gang |
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MissWaverly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 09:40 PM Response to Reply #57 |
66. I am saying that Ney, architect of HAVA |
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Fly by night (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 09:59 PM Response to Reply #57 |
72. Pennsylvania's undervote numbers don't smell like a bed of roses either. |
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MissWaverly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 11:17 AM Response to Reply #72 |
82. I know what I saw at my polling place |
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robinlynne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 12:06 AM Response to Reply #4 |
77. That's Bush's argument exactly. That's why they used the computers. been hanging |
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karynnj (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 01:48 PM Response to Reply #2 |
5. The exit polls do not PROVE there was a problem |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 03:17 PM Response to Reply #5 |
7. not all of this is quite right |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 04:35 PM Response to Reply #7 |
8. What about New Hampshire |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 05:26 PM Response to Reply #8 |
14. actually, I mentioned New Hampshire |
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FogerRox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 08:56 PM Response to Reply #14 |
58. 3 counties in PA had 5 to 7.9% undervote rates |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 09:18 PM Response to Reply #58 |
62. yeah, the Unilects really stank up the joint(s) |
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FogerRox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 09:25 PM Response to Reply #62 |
63. the Shamos report was quite hot in 2005. |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 09:45 PM Response to Reply #62 |
69. Glitchgate - exit polls don't matter |
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demodonkey (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 04:41 PM Response to Reply #69 |
94. 10,000 lost votes are a HELL of a lot more than a "Glitch". |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-07-07 01:22 AM Response to Reply #94 |
104. It's the only way to get the machines fixed |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 09:43 PM Response to Reply #58 |
68. Let's stick to Ohio |
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Fly by night (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 10:07 PM Response to Reply #58 |
73. Some precincts in PA reached 80% undervote. |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 12:20 PM Response to Reply #73 |
87. Which precincts, be specific |
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Fly by night (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 12:33 PM Response to Reply #87 |
89. Why indeed? It's much easier to stand, fingers in ears, shouting "I can't hear you." |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 12:47 PM Response to Reply #89 |
90. I'm asking for 3 Ohio precincts |
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Fly by night (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 05:34 PM Response to Reply #90 |
95. Read post 93 below. It provides the evidence for my earlier post, & you didn't have to lift a finger |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 05:46 PM Response to Reply #8 |
17. If this doesn't convince you |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 05:48 PM Response to Reply #17 |
19. if it were up to me, paperless DREs would be gone |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 05:57 PM Response to Reply #19 |
22. Are you the new thread monitor? |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 06:39 PM Response to Reply #22 |
31. nope, sorry, just misread the lines |
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Fly by night (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 07:43 PM Response to Reply #19 |
45. From your mouth to Lady Liberty's ear. May it be so someday soon. |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 07:58 PM Response to Reply #45 |
49. a toast to that n/t |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 06:09 PM Response to Reply #17 |
26. Precincts and names |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 10:12 PM Response to Reply #26 |
74. I do not know how to explain it to you |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 10:56 AM Response to Reply #74 |
81. Ohio. Precincts. |
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robinlynne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 05:03 PM Response to Reply #5 |
11. Exit polls have been used all over the world for years to indicate election fraud. |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 05:47 PM Response to Reply #11 |
18. like in Venezuela? |
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karynnj (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 07:55 PM Response to Reply #11 |
46. But never here |
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Fly by night (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 05:41 PM Response to Reply #5 |
16. The Mitofsky report itself disproves the "reluctant Bush supporter" hypothesis. |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 05:51 PM Response to Reply #16 |
20. no, I'm sorry, it certainly doesn't |
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Fly by night (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 06:06 PM Response to Reply #20 |
24. Yes it does. Just for you, I'll spend time calling up chapter and verse once again. |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 06:38 PM Response to Reply #24 |
29. I do partly agree with your premise |
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Fly by night (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 07:18 PM Response to Reply #29 |
39. Thanks. I was going to post a link to the 1/19/05 report by Edison-Mitofsky ... |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 07:35 PM Response to Reply #39 |
41. YOU are posting KATHY DOPP'S stuff? |
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Fly by night (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 07:58 PM Response to Reply #41 |
48. I was trying to post available critiques for viewers who haven't read them. |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 08:22 PM Response to Reply #48 |
50. well, sir, you raised the issue |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 12:18 PM Response to Reply #50 |
86. LOL |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 01:35 PM Response to Reply #86 |
91. oh, good catch |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 09:37 PM Response to Reply #48 |
65. by the way |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 06:30 PM Response to Reply #48 |
97. Well, I too |
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murielm99 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 01:18 PM Response to Original message |
3. Did any of you watch the Nightline program |
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zulchzulu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 02:08 PM Response to Reply #3 |
6. Man, that's like a bad flashback... |
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robinlynne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 05:02 PM Response to Original message |
9. This is just like congress saying they didn't know bush would use the war |
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beachmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 05:07 PM Response to Reply #9 |
13. "We all knew it was stolen" -- says who? Before my current job as Mom |
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Fly by night (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 06:15 PM Response to Reply #13 |
27. When some of the "hard evidence" was recently destroyed in Ohio, despite a judge's order ..., |
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FogerRox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 09:11 PM Response to Reply #27 |
60. despite a judge's order ..., |
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zulchzulu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 06:40 PM Response to Reply #9 |
32. I remember hearing about the evening the Election was stolen with Kerry in Boston |
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Fly by night (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 05:37 PM Response to Original message |
15. Spring forward (to "Uncounted"); fall back (to Bob Koehler) -- keep beating the drums |
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chill_wind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 05:55 PM Response to Original message |
21. Yes, I remember- vividly and bitterly. Including the Toledo Blade |
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FogerRox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 09:13 PM Response to Reply #21 |
61. That theft was not alone. |
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illinoisprogressive (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 06:39 PM Response to Original message |
30. I am afraid our primaries will be stolen this time. I really believe it is possible |
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zulchzulu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-05-07 10:29 PM Response to Reply #30 |
75. Over my dead body |
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demodonkey (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 04:40 PM Response to Original message |
93. Response HERE to Post #87 re Pennsylvania counties w 80% undervote. IT WAS TRUE! |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 06:27 PM Response to Reply #93 |
96. FINALLY |
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zulchzulu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 10:42 PM Response to Reply #93 |
100. Animated graphic of electronic to paper ballots compared to exit polls |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-07-07 05:29 AM Response to Reply #100 |
106. Oh, boy, the plots from the black lagoon have mutated! |
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zulchzulu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-07-07 06:57 AM Response to Reply #106 |
108. That graph was from actual numbers at the time... |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-07-07 07:01 AM Response to Reply #108 |
109. Do redig the data |
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zulchzulu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-07-07 09:34 AM Response to Reply #109 |
111. So you're implying that exit polls were the same whether paper or electronic ballots? |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-07-07 10:19 AM Response to Reply #111 |
112. I'm implying that |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-07-07 01:44 PM Response to Reply #112 |
113. you mean 40 HAND COUNTED paper ballot precincts, of course |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-07-07 02:34 PM Response to Reply #113 |
115. Ah, yes |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-07-07 07:38 AM Response to Reply #108 |
110. One more thing: |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-07-07 01:18 AM Response to Reply #93 |
103. Unilect, that lost votes in NC too |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-06-07 10:57 PM Response to Original message |
101. Yes, MSM "Swiftboated" to the very end . . .. and to be serious about it . . .. |
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