How DARE you blue state "Democrats" look down your noses at those of us in the heartland!!

[Skidmore]

I've read through thread after thread where y'all sneer at the people out here in middle America who came to vote for candidates in Democratic Party primaries and caucuses. How fucking dare you! There are those of us out here in the wildnerness who for more than a decade kept the flame alive when the political power brokers could not take the time to give us resources or offices. WE were the ones who called our representatives and senators when they were being stupid. We were the ones who talked to our families and neighbors over and over again about what was wrong with the Republican agenda and worked at living down the labels that the asshole paid political hit people hung on us. No doubt some of your are among that crowd. Then you have the gall to dismiss the work we did to get people to meetups, rallies, and the polls for this party? How fucking DARE you! Do you think this was easy to do? Do you know how many hours of talking and listening and pointing out common ground and the fact that behind the labels most of us really want pretty much a fair shake at a decent life for ourselves and our families? Do you even care?

FYI, I am not interested in maintaining the power structures of DC or the big urban centers, especially if they cannot see beyond the shishypoopoo glass facades in which the connected gaze lovingly into the eyes of their own reflections. We're out here on broad stretches of prairies and open land. You look to us when you are hungry and cold for the basics in life, and court us for funds that are increasingly scarce. Get over yourselves! We went with friends and families to the polls to voice our concerns and to pick the person we each believed to be the best leader. We don't all agree. But let me tell you that the nation is hurting, even us who have been labelled as "red staters" (y'all know we can't be Democrats) and bumpkins.

Now I live in Iowa so we do get to really participate in the primaries, but we have states nearby who rarely do, and you know why some of those tended to vote red? Because the Democratic Party got lazy and sat on its collective ass assuming that the New Deal would last forever. Thank goodness for Howard Dean and for Barack Obama who remembered that a flame burns in the Heartland and the High Plains. Thank goodness that someone remembered that there are fifty states in the union and not just a half a dozen "big states" whose citizenry believe that only they and their ideas count.

[yourguide]

1. Amen!

Thank you for your post!

[hueyshort]

110. zzzz

[Subdivisions]

170. I haven't made a deletable comment in awhile, so here's a big

Take your lousy hundred posts and fuck off!

How's that for disrespect?

You are rude. And you are not welcome.

[Froward69]

175. Hueyshort is

a freeper whom thinks he/she is influencing OUR debate. voting for hillary in open primary's thinking it will divide us, make us weak. allow the GOP to play possum longer... I say sever its head (gop) be sure it is dead.

Insofar as the OP spot on!!! "big states" or where their are more electoral votes. think they will dictate whom the next prez is. ALL STATES MATTER!!! remember our country is named The UNITED States. Bush ignores the plights of smaller places like Louisiana, Mississippi... WE as Democrats Should NOT!

[monmouth]

2. Wonderful post...K&R..

[DearAbby]

3. We are Fly-over country

I guess they don't need our votes.

[VotesForWomen]

61. uh, when's the last time you gave them your votes?? nt

[Gore1FL]

64. 2006 for me

I plan to again in 2008.

Imagine if more people like me did the same. The Dem's would pick up red states, and put more in play--just like in 2006 when the party started to make such efforts.

[JAbuchan08]

89. I was born in Colorado and have given the Dems my votes since I turned 18

I live in New York now, but still find the condescension from East Coasters quite amazing.

[IronLionZion]

169. Super Tuesday, but all of my life since being old enough to vote nt

[DearAbby]

173. I voted for Jimmy Carter ....................TWICE

I voted since 1976

[John Q. Citizen]

178. Montana sent the first woman to congress. She was smart enough to vote AGAINST war. Twice.

I've been voting Dem since I could vote. First Presidential vote was Jimmy Carter.

How about you, VotesForWomen? How many times have you voted Democratic?

[Skidmore]

183. I have a soft spot in my heart for Montana.

My maternal great-aunt was the school superintendent in Sweet Grass County and was responsible for starting that county's rural school system. Was voted out of that office because she actively campaigned for women's suffrage. She died in 1925.

[VotesForWomen]

184. i meant actual electoral votes in the presidential race. i vote dem here in SD; doesn't amount to a

hill of beans, does it?

[bluestateguy]

4. No, no, real Americans live in the Bos-Wash corridor, in LA or SF

and the election will be decided by a few thousands swing voters in Ohio. Nowhere else.

Yes, I was being sarcastic.

[TomInTib]

5. Keep your lamp trimmed and burnin', Skidmore.

Heartily recommended!

[Skidmore]

131. Hi, Tom...

Good to see you, friend!

[tpsbmam]

6. K&R and

as a former New Yorker, I always said pretty much what you said above. The arrogance of New Yorkers (and I was one of them) gnawed at me sometimes. Neither the world nor the country stops at the Hudson & East Rivers (hell, Manhattanites could even be snobby about the some of the boroughs sometimes). Just know that not everyone in the Northeast, the coasts, or the big urban centers feels that way -- I never did and it also irked me to hear that attitude. After moving out of NY, I loved in Wisconsin (which I loved) and elsewhere both in the "heartland" and on the East Coast. Having settled now in the South, I feel the snobbishness of the Northeast & coasts. All I can say is don't let it get to you -- there are many of us out here who know that this is a vast, wonderful country with many great areas, many great people in all of those areas, and many fabulous political activists in those areas.


Edited for yet another *&^TR&^%*O& typo!

[saltpoint]

7. Bill Moyers is a Baptist preacher from red Texas and it's hard to

beat Bill Moyers for liberal.

[Nitrogenica]

8. Well said. Every vote counts.

Labeling votes by false reasoning as not mattering is what the Republicans do.

[Bluerthanblue]

9. K&R without the people- like YOU- like all of us, there IS no

Democratic party.

This stupid primary is showing us how perverted and selfish we seem to have become.

And how easy it is to point to the "republicans" and call them out on their petty, cruel, rude and outrageous behaviour, when we are proving that we seem to be equally corrupt.


:shrug:

peace~

[patrice]

10. Love!! this . . .

"shishypoopoo glass facades in which the connected gaze lovingly into the eyes of their own reflections"

May I use it?

Note your allusion, intended or otherwise, to self-hypnosis.

[Skidmore]

18. Help yourself.

[Madam Mossfern]

11. K & R from someone from NJ

who grew up in NYC.
You are absolutely right.

[DS1]

12. lots of nose looking down in that OP

shishypoopoo glass facades?

look to you for food, gawd that one's worn out.

[Skidmore]

17. It takes a special kind of arrogance to dismiss people

who live in a state labelled "red" by some media meathead some years back as incapable of changing their minds or casting honestvotes. It takes even more arrogance to write them off as unworthy enough to be even asked for those votes.

[OmahaBlueDog]

13. I love your passion and all, but....

..over here, across the River in Nebraska, it's still pretty damn red. Iowa is different; you all still have family farms and superb education.

[hedgehog]

14. Any chance of getting an enlargement of that picture in your post?

[OmahaBlueDog]

25. It's available on-line and in retail print shops

http://www.eleganthorsepictures.com/thomas-true-blues1.html

It's called "True Blues" by artist Andy Thomas

[hedgehog]

27. I was going to ask if the other guys were setting up Woodrow WIlson in the

first picture (I wouldn't expect him to be much of a poker player), but the matching image is priceless:

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/elegant-horse-pictures_1990_8532687

[hedgehog]

28. I was going to ask if the other guys were setting up Woodrow WiIson in the

first picture (I wouldn't expect him to be much of a poker player), but the matching image is priceless:


http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/elegant-horse-pictures_1990_8532687



With the Bushes and Nixon around the table, I wonder just how many aces are in play!

[Terran]

148. The nerve...

to throw Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt in with that bunch of idiots and criminals. :puke:

[Ken Burch]

116. If only they'd called it "Dems Playing Poker".

Then it would be sold in Sunday supplements across the country.

It could be part of a series:

"Fourth Term with Four Aces".

"His Inauguration and Four Aces".

"Midterm Sympathy"

(c'mon, y'all were thinkin' it...)

[Skidmore]

24. Wish I lived closer to the western border, I'd be over to help you

in a heartbeat. Iowa has that idiot bigot, Steve King, over on your border. He's not my rep, but I apologize for the blight on humanity he represents.

We just keep on, don't we?

[OmahaBlueDog]

31. IIRC, King has that NW corner of the state

Sioux City, LeMars, Sheldon, Spencer, Okoboji.

I remember meeting a business owner in Spencer (hard core Bush supporter). She wants everyone to get $2,500 HSAs, beleives that most businesses can afford health insurance or work comp, but not both, and is going to cut family benefits from her health plan because one spouse of an employee has the audacity to be making claims, which is pretty much driving up costs for everyone.

I suddenly realized the wisdom of the Republican health plan -- if we all just pay cash and get those damn sick people off our health insurance, that should really help lower costs!

[truedelphi]

87. Your last line abt the Repugs and health care

Just about nails it.

[progressoid]

119. That's the corner where my parents live and it a constant struggle against the regressive RW.

Sioux and Lyon counties are the most republican in the state. That's King's base up there but he represents the entire west side of the state - including me (I'm just across the river from you :hi: ). He never fails to embarrass us.

However, I think some of those RWers are finally starting to realize how they have been voting against their own best interests. The tide is turning. At least a little.

[progressoid]

123. Oh, he's a joy isn't he?

My Dad has had a few encounters with him. He's just as creepy and embarrassing in person as you might expect.

Even in a highly republican town, my parents have been fighting the good fight for Democrats for almost 7 decades. I live further south but it's still a struggle. Yet, we're going to do our best to get that vermin out of office! Never give up!!

[Kukesa]

15. K&R! n/t

[ekwhite]

16. Thank you

I live in California, but I have lived in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Arizona, North Carolina, and South Carolina. Democrats who are in the minority in these states are some of the most loyal Democrats we have. I respect each and every one of you. Someone who discounts your votes doesn't deserve to be President.

[Joanne98]

19. Amen brother!

[Donkeykick]

20. Thanks...

for all you have done. :yourock:

[gristy]

21. You're painting with a pretty broad brush, there, buddy.

Did you reply to the individuals who "sneered" at people "in middle America who came to vote for candidates in Democratic Party primaries and caucuses"? Did you call them on this? Can you point us to the specific posts where this supposed sneering went on? To the "thread after thread" where this went on? And now you say you have your panties in a wad and just had to come at us all in your own little OP with a double-barreled shotgun because you say some latte-drinking, sushi-eating, Volvo-driving poster(s?) on this board is disparaging middle America democrats.

LOL

[Skidmore]

32. There have been enough posts regarding red states as not counting

or whose voters absolutely must be Republicans crossing over and remarks that only "big" or "blue states" could carry the GE. I disagree. It takes us all to make a meaningful change. With enough respect and effort, all states could be more blue. Won't happen unless Democrats from the "blue states" see smaller or "red states" as worthy. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[gristy]

48. And you just had to use an OP to involve the whole friggin' board in this fight?

Just how many individual posters are we talking about? 3? How many posts? 30? What did a poster mean by "not counting". Did they mean that since a state is safely R (say, Utah), it should in certain aspects be considered differently in the GE? In the primaries? Or something else? Were they all saying the same thing? What you have done is taken a perceived affront by a certain number of posters, lumped their comments and POVs together into one slop-bucket, and then broadly attacked and dumped that slop-bucket onto a much larger community.

[Skidmore]

69. There is a campaign now which is writing off whole states and

their participation in this election. It's supporters sneer at "red state" voters regularly. It is a factor in this election.

[ExPatLeftist]

151. Who TF are you...

To tell anyone what they can and cannot make an OP about?

Shall I ask you next time I want to make one???

I think this is quite similar to the arrogance the OP mentioned... :eyes:

I have heard "red staters" condescended to often here, and I agree with the message, and recommended it.

(I do not see this OP as an attack on all "blue-staters" - just those that make these asinine comments. I agree with you that we are all individuals and that we need to be careful about generalizations. You and the the OP seem to agree on that.... But I did not see this as an attack on whole groups, rather those individuals that write off people in the midwest. And to outright scold someone for "daring" to make an OP that is obviously important to them, well, I have no clue what possesses you to do that.)




Now I am going to look for some OPs that do not speak to MY story so I can scold the posters for having dared to make an OP about something so minor... :eyes:

[pipi_k]

161. Squeaking up from a Blue State....

I have to agree with you that lumping a few posters together and deciding that a whole section of the country is nothing but a bunch of sushi eating snobs with their noses stuck up each others' asses sucks.


And to the OP.....

I'm from Massachusetts. According to some, it doesn't get much more blue than that...

Do I get frustrated at the dimwittedness of Red State Republican voters who go out and vote for someone because, for example, he looks like he'd be a great guy to have a few beers with (said about GWBush)? Damn right I do.

But OTOH, do I appreciate the hard work, guts, and effort put forth by Red State Democrats in an effort to counter what seems like insurmountable odds to get more Democrats out to vote in those states? Hell yes!!!!


Please don't lump us all together just because a few morons don't know the meaning of gratitude.

[lyonn]

74. I took your post to make a point of how important a 50 State

campaign by the DNC and Howard Dean was to get a win in the finals (General Election). It does seem that the little red States got dissed by Dems in the past. I liked your thoughts on the situation, oh well, thanks Skidmore, and tell me if I read your post right.

[Skidmore]

75. You did take it correctly. We are either all a part of the United States

or we aren't. The Democratic Party just cannot afford to continue to ignore small states and expect to win the dialogue in this nation. There are many Dems out here who have been loyal through it all and many people who are like minded who have been told that Rs represent them best by using wedge issues which serve to divide. We've been working to get rid of those wedges only to be told that our efforts don't count.

[TheDoorbellRang]

43. You must be new here. Welcome to GD-P

:hi:

[DURHAM D]

66. The OP see demons where there are none.

Poor thing.

[ExPatLeftist]

153. Good example...

...of the arrogance and condescension referred to in the original post. :up:


Are you honestly saying that if someone's experience is not in line with your own, they must therefore be delusional and deserving of pity?

Give me a break.

[acmavm]

129. Broad brush my ass. Here's one for ya.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3217357&mesg_id=3217395

[Skidmore]

134. That was some sorry post, wasn't it?

Exactly the type of divisiveness that has been used to tear us down as an economy and a people. It has to stop!

[BumRushDaShow]

22. I agree

and I live in a purple state along the I-95 corridor (PA).

Coming to this site and seeing the photos posted by people across the country of the various rallies in the heartland and seeing the excitement in people's faces as they stood for hours to get in the rallies and to vote or caucus - even in the worst of weather.... made my heart leap with joy. A picture truly does say a thousand words. And this from areas that the DNC had abandoned to the wingnuts after 1980. I used to joke about these areas (and I have visited a number of states in the heartland), but no more. I am STILL in awe that people were willing to actually vote for someone like Obama and now I fully understand what it must be like to have been lost and now found again! :hug:

[Mme. Defarge]

23. As a blue-stater with a primary that rarely counts,

I SALUTE YOU!

K&R!!

[Skidmore]

26. May we all count and may we rebuild this nation together.

[Mme. Defarge]

37. There's no other way! n/t

[Irishonly]

29. I grew up in Iowa

Graduated from Drake and although I haven't lived there in many years I still love the state. My liberal roots were formed in Iowa and my passion for helping people started there also.

[Skidmore]

35. So many good people got their start here and

live here too. Howdy, friend.

[Irishonly]

155. Howdy friend

A couple of years ago I took my daughter so she could see where mom grew up. She was born in CA but also fell in love with Iowa. She kept talking about the trees and hills. She also was mind boggled at how friendly people were. She's going back after graduation to visit again. She and my uncle have a mutual admiration society going.

There are lots of loyal democrats in the state and all states matter.

[psquare]

177. I love Iowa! I've done RAGBRAI (week-long bike across Iowa) 8 times nt

[Skidmore]

188. I'm impressed!

Some of those rides can be just hellish if the weather is super hot. Bet you've been through our area, and probably more than once.

[Irishonly]

192. Wow

I did one of the first ones many, many years ago.:hi:

[AtomicKitten]

30. K&R

:hi:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

33. easy. We are situated north of you. and that is not really our noses,

more like our bellies.

[Adelante]

34. Thank goodness for Howard Dean and for Barack Obama

Hear, hear!! :toast:

[XemaSab]

36. I live in California

and I have nothing but solidarity with people in the heartland, especially heavily republican states.

I've lived in conservative areas of California, I get irritated with people who don't recognize the fact that the whole state isn't a liberal paradise.

So understand that there are people in the larger states who aren't into throwing you under the bus. :pals:

[IDemo]

40. I come from a large family of 'Orange County Republicans'

I'm the black sheep, and proud of it! :)

[XemaSab]

51. Orange county republicans are nuthin'

I've seen people with Nazi tattoos worn proudly in this state, and that's just appalling. :(

[IDemo]

38. Thanks for that, Skidmore

from "the other Iowa" -- Idaho

http://www.redorbit.com/news/business/882001/the_idaho_statesman_boise_tim_woodward_column/index.html

[Johnny__Motown]

39. It is only the Hillary supporting Blue State Dems......

[Skidmore]

41. Yeah, it has been noted that

"red state Dems:" don't count.

[Chasing Dreams]

42. Yes, We need to get back to being the UNITED States.

Oh yeah, I forgot that the CA, NY, PA, MI, FL, OH strategy won the last several elections for the Dems.
:sarcasm:

You are spot on, except Howard Dean's comments about seating FL and MI if they petition the DNC worry me.

[NEDem]

44. Well said

I'm getting real tired of being told "You don't count"

[Paco]

45. How Dare You!

How dare you insult fellow Democrats simply because they happen to be from "blue" states. You are dismissive of the majority who make up the Democratic Party and coincidentally are from "blue" states. Why should the Democratic Party compromise with those who abandoned the party for Reagan? Why should we now support a candidate who admires Reagan?



:spank:

[theredpen]

63. According to recent polls by SurveyUSA

Obama would make the country bluer than Clinton:


If you look at the supporting data at surveyusa.com, you'll also see that Obama beats McCain by larger margins and loses to McCain by smaller margins than Clinton. In the case of Texas, for example, Obama is one percentage point away from winning that state. Can you imagine staying up on election night and watching Texas turn blue? Well, don't dream about that if Clinton is running. Look for another 2000/2004 squeaker where Republican voter fraud ends up carrying their ticket.

[SecularNATION]

46. Coastal Snobbery = GOP Dominance

Skidmore, your post is on the money. Elitist attitudes expressed by some elements of the Party is one of the primary reasons the Democrats have lost 7 out of the last 10 Presidential elections. If we left it to those fools, the Democrats would never retake the White House. Coastal elitist assholes would forever be under the dominance of the GOP, without the help of good Democrats in the "flyover" states.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bicoastal]

50. God, liberals like you make me sick.

:wow: at what you just wrote. Man, I knew this topic would bait some people, but I didn't expect a snob like you to show up and announce yourself.

I've never been to a state in between the coasts that didn't have something special to offer--beautiful scenery, friendly people, good music, etc.

Cultural wasteland--it's all a matter of perspective. What, because 90% of TV shows and Movies are set in New York or LA? Donald Trump and Paris Hilton aren't exactly ambassadors of civilization, are they? I'm not sure exactly where you are, but I can guarantee you it's not nearly as great as you think it is.

Maybe you should find another country to live in that meets your high standards of living--because "those states" aren't going anywhere, and we're infinitely better off with them than without them.

[Skidmore]

54. We live just fine.

Give me the sun going down over a field anyday, with neighbors sitting on lawnchairs talking about the events of the day, children or grandchildren, and the best way to prune the fruit trees or plot a garden or plow a field. Give me the cultural simplicity of a high school play or a county fair anytime. Yes change starts at home. Look to the cities and clean up the poverty and the disease that eats away at their core, then com back and tell me about wastelands. Give me the high desert or canyons. I'll take them anyday over the darkness between the steel canyons.

[SallyMander]

78. Beautiful!

:thumbsup:

[cali]

91. Love your OP, but hey

that's what we do here in Vermont and we're blue. Most, but not all, rural states are red. The Northeast Kingom is as rural as anyplace.

[Skidmore]

92. Hi, cali.

Sure do appreciate a "blue stater" who understands that rural doesn't mean braindead or clueless. BTW, I enjoy reading your threads and greatly respect your opinions.

[Blue Gardener]

138. I Love Iowa

And wouldn't think of living anywhere else. Thank you for defending our lovely state.

[Skidmore]

141. I wouldn't think of living anywhere else, although

I have in the past. I always come home to Iowa. No place like it on earth, and I've been to most of the 50 states and a fair number of foreign nations. I've seen great landscapes and met nice people everywhere, but the people and prairies of Iowa always draw me back.

Good to meet you, neighbor.

[yewberry]

57. Well, that's revolting.

How about you try not calling other states names?

{Insert crappy remark about 2004 election in OH here.}

Why don't you try having your state be more progressive?

[bvar22]

80. I don't want or need YOUR respect.!

I'll take THIS instead:

Twilight Harvest


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=246x5729

Bye! :hi:

[Skidmore]

90. Beautiful, indeed.

Love the veggie porn. Nothing beats the smell of the earth in the early morning or the smell of plants when the dew comes down. Even in winter time when the field grow furrows of snow, the land has a beauty that nothing manmade can rival. It stretches out to the horizon and is the constant from the hopeful birthing of the morning sun to the glorious culmination of the dying day as the old sun sinks beyond it. It is this soil, this land, this nation in which we plant our dreams.

[Spider Jerusalem]

83. You live in fucking OHIO. You have no room whatever to call another state a 'cultural wasteland'.

Or to be on such a high horse as regards other states' 'progressivism'.

[rockymountaindem]

84. Gee, from your post you'd think your state had never heard of the Taft family

Kenneth Blackewell, or any of the other RW goons who have originated from Ohio.

[Bettie]

108. Clearly you've never been to the Midwest

Because we have plenty here.

I live in Iowa now, but grew up in Wisconsin. Frankly, we have a good life here, lower crime rates, friendly people and a lovely home.

We also have plenty of progressives fighting the good fight, working to make our world and our country a better place.

Not sure where you got your ideas about Iowa, but maybe you'd like to explain.

Bettie.

[Thirtieschild]

49. Well said.

The Boston-to-Washington attitude goes way back. I first encountered it when we moved to D.C. in 1961.

[yellerpup]

52. Kick for Blues in the Red States.

I identify. I moved to NY from OK thirty years ago and have lived here since then except for a 22 month try-out in NC. I identify with what you are saying and had to beg my NY friends not to pile on and lump everyone in red states into the same crappy basket just because there weren't quite enough of us to pull off an overwhelming change. Sorry you are hurt. Not every Blue stater is unconscious when it comes to our brothers and sisters in the great middle-home of the beautiful, for spacious skies, by the way...

[depakid]

53. Maybe when the red states (actually red areas of states) start voting their economic interests

they'll be seen with more respect. Kinda hard to take people seriously in staunchly Republican parts of Ohio and Indiana, when their communities have just been devastated by right wing policies.

Aside from various prejudices and irrational evangelism, seems to me a lot of this has to to with education (not knowledge, per se, but critical thinking ability) and opportunities. A lot of those with education leave the rural areas for opportunities elsewhere -and those places tend to be blue.

Unlike Obama (who seems to me to pander and want to play to certain prejudices) Dean had the right idea. People in rural areas- even more so than their urban counterparts, need decent health care, quality schools and responsible economic policies. In other words, progressive policies should and would appeal to them (confederate flag or not).

My guess is that, unfortunately, it's going to take another economic collapse to bring that home, particularly since in most of these communities across America, ALL that they hear on radio -and the vast majority of TV is a wasteland of far right propaganda.

[Skidmore]

142. Obama came to Iowa and sat down with our farmers

and worked with them to develop a rural plan. It was refreshing to see someone take an interest in the economics of rural America. I don't bellieve he was pandering. Dean has sponsored Obama. I supported Dean in his run and caucused for him. I believe people are beginning to vote their interests. We also have seen stations begin dropping RW programs. These changes are happening and it wasn't because the power establishment of the party did such a bang up job. Some of it is in response to economic conditions and the war, and an important portion of it is due to grassroots work in these states.

[Zachstar]

55. Hell ya!! AMEN!!

K and R!!

[USA_1]

56. Yours Is An Important Message

... just a bit profane. But I know where you are coming from.

A while ago I mentioned Mike Papantonio of Air America Radio and his idiotic notion that the Democratic Party should disregard the Midwest and South as, in his little mind, these areas are too solidly Red. How stupid can that nitwit be?

The Democratic Party should double and triple its efforts in these states!

That's how we patriots can win back Congress, the White House, the state legislatures, and governorships.

[Skidmore]

58. Apologies for the profanity

but this has been building for days. We've been dissed for years out here in the hinterlands and at times when the party needed us the most.

[USA_1]

193. Sometimes It Has to Be Said!

I'm glad you brought attention to this very important issue.

[stray cat]

59. Isn't the midwest Ohio and Ohio alone?

Sarcasm completely - I spent my life in MN, IA, WI, and MO and resent it when anyone in the party writes them off as unimportant and worthless.

[VotesForWomen]

60. get real! i live in SD, and guess what? WE DON'T COUNT!!! WE ARE NOT GOING BLUE IN NOV!! why the

hell should the DNC give a flip which presidential nominee we want?? what have we done for them lately?? are we refusing to vote dem because we've been 'ignored' or told we 'don't count' and thus are pouting and refusing to vote dem? no, it's because for a candidate to win here they have to be anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-affirmative action, pro-war, pro-land exploitation/abuse etc. etc. if the dem party is willing to make those changes to get our votes, well then who really needs it??

[cottonseed]

71. You don't have any elected Democrats in SD?

It's not all about the Presidential elections. Dean's 50 state strategy is proving to be a good thing.

[eridani]

126. How was it that SD once had a Senator George McGovern?

Idaho had Frank Church. Oklahoma had Fred Harris for 8 years, who also considered a presidential run. How was it different back then?

[krispos42]

127. Stephanie Herseth, Tom Daschle, Tim Johnson

Democrats all.

[VotesForWomen]

185. i'm talking about presidential electoral votes, as is the subject of this forum. and yes, some of o

our dem congressional/senate reps are better than nothing, and i of course vote for them, but they vote with the repugs at far too many crucial times.

[VotesForWomen]

186. i'm talking about presidential electoral votes, as is the subject of this forum. and yes, some of o

our dem congressional/senate reps are better than nothing, and i of course vote for them, but they vote with the repugs at far too many crucial times.

[Berry Cool]

62. As the person who protested the crap flung at Ohio the past few days

all I can say is K&R!

[amborin]

65. we're not looking down on you, we praise you, we're simply saying your state will stay RED in the GE

[mudesi]

67. Blame Terry Mcauliffe, the DLC, and the Clintons

They're the complicit ones.

[crispini]

68. a fucking men!

:applause: :patriot:

[not_too_L8]

70. great post...k&r

[Kaylee]

72. I have a hard enough time living in a red neighborhood in a blue state.

I am glad Dean (and Obama) is pursuing a 50 state plan. There are a lot of states looking for a reason to turn purple.

[K Gardner]

73. K&R Skidmore.. well said. We all need to be expressing this to the DNC. Daily.

[spooky3]

76. blame the electoral college system

It causes politicians (after the primaries, anyway) to ignore most states in order to focus on a few that are clearly purple (not even those that are reddish purple or bluish purpose get attention) and have a lot of electoral votes.

I wish we could change this system.

[Skidmore]

77. Frankly, I blame the media and the paid politico professionals and the mannequins that hire them

who have systematically stripped democracy of its dignity and the people of the tools of citizenship.

[spooky3]

79. they have been horrible too

Plenty of blame to go around.

[berni_mccoy]

81. It's NOT the Blue State Dems. It's only the Hillaryites and the DLCers

[SoxFan]

82. Clarification

The Hillaryites and the DLC are two different groups. Some of the most noxious members of Monsters Inc, are actually what I would call career Dem hacks, the sorts who were with Mondale and Dukakis. The frontrunner, insider crowd.

DLC President Bruce Reed grew up in Idaho and is a walking baseball encyclopedia. He's not a coastal elite by any stretch, and probably agrees with much of the OP's point.

[lastknowngood]

85. Non should look down there noses at you but you must admit

your vote won't count come November, I know it's not nice but it's the facts. Your state will vote for a pig in a jumpsuit if they yell guns god and gays and lets have more wars.

[cyberswede]

115. Iowa went blue in 2000

And we have Tom Harkin in the senate!
And 3 of our 5 congressmen are Democrats (well, 2.5 - one is Leonard Bowsell).
Only the northwest part of the state are the loonies you describe. :) (Steven King's district)

[Skidmore]

135. Hey, we're working on Boswell. I hope Fallon will replace him.

I'll work for it and hard too.

[bvar22]

86. It ain't easy being Blue in a Red State!

In 2006, I moved from the Bluest City in a True Blue State (Minneapolis) to the Reddest rural part of a Red State. It was easy being Blue in Minneapolis....just go with the flow.
NOW, this Red State has ONE MORE Blue voter.

The truth is....There are NO Red States, only Purple States!
Thank You, Howard Dean and the 50-State Plan!
FUCK the DLC!


bvar22
Actively Working to Make ALL America Blue!

K&R

[New Dawn]

88. K&R - Nebraska reporting.

[bobthedrummer]

93. "Inconvenient truths about the New Democrats, the Third Way, Democratic Leadership Council, etc."

(cross-posted active and highly relevant GD thread started 4:37pm 3-7-2008)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2973191

[Skidmore]

97. Thanks for the link...

am bookmarking it to have a closer look.

[Mooney]

94. I'm a blue state Democrat (NY)

and every time I read or hear someone sneeringly dismiss a red state, I cringe with embarrassment and disgust. We should be trying to connect in these states, since we keep losing them.

[seabeyond]

95. hell of a lot easier their asses sittin comfortably in blue as we battle and get spit on

in a red state.

very arrogant. and being a californian living it texas, what wimps you all are. not to mention ignorant. a wealth of info living in this place that i didnt have in my protected blue state

[GreenInNC]

96. Coming down to North Carolina

I believe we will be the last big state to have a primary, this is going to be fun.

I have signed up to be an Obama delegate to the convention, hope I get picked.

[kristopher]

102. According to Clinton campaign PA is last big state....

[GreenInNC]

104. Over 100 delegates

She might want to think that way because Obama has the lead in the polls here but we have over 100 delegates.

[JVS]

139. That's because they're going to lose NC and don't want to acknowledge it as big.

[Skittles]

98. WHO is sneering at you, Skidmore?

YOU WANT I SHOULD KICK THEIR SNEERING ASSES?

[milkyway]

99. Great rant. Hillary loves every state until its in her rear-view mirror. The words of her campaign

would come back to haunt her if she gets the nomination. They've disrespected three quarters of the country. She dissed Mississippi before they have even voted.

Obama has a chance to greatly alter the political map. Poblano at dailykos has done an excellent statistical analysis of each of the fifty states showing this. I discussed it here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4988094&mesg_id=4988094

On a personal note, I'm from Manhattan and the other day I was discussing colleges with my bright, independent tenth-grade son. I've told him that there are a lot of great colleges within a few hours from New York, but he's the kind of adventurous kid that shouldn't limit himself by region. I said that although most of the big reputation schools are disproportionately in the northeast, there are a lot of very good schools throughout the country, including North Carolina, Wisconsin, Michigan, California, Oregon, and Iowa. He really wants to explore the country and get to know different kinds of people, which might seem a bit odd since he's a public school kid here and his school is like a United Nations of diversity. I spoke to him specifically about Grinnell and it will be on his list of schools to check out. I always remember a line I've heard about the school: "You're not in heaven, you're at Grinnell." Maybe next year he'll want to visit it, which I would be thrilled with.

k&r

[Glorfindel]

112. Everyone "disses" Mississippi...God knows we're used to it

and, who knows? Maybe we deserve it. If ever the people of a state voted consistently against their own best interests, it's the people of Mississippi. One would almost think we're proud of being the poorest, most ignorant, most obese, least healthy, and - let's face it - the most DESPISED state in the union. I have never, ever voted for a Repuke, and I never will, but in Darkest Mississippi it's assumed that if you're caucasian, you're a Repuke and probably a Baptist, too.

[Skidmore]

133. Grinnell is a good school and not far down the road from here. We'd

welcome another bright young person to our state. Iowa has a proud history of education and progressiveness. We have a couple areas in the state that need to enlightened, but a lot of good people here.

[RBInMaine]

100. Hey, I'm a "blue-stater" who is with you. (Read On Please)

Hey, it's largely the HILLARY people who are sneering not just at western, southern, and heartland states, but SMALLER states in general as well. All that seems to matter to them are the "big" state like NY, CA, and FL. Hey, I'm from Maine. WE COUNT TOO ! We trend blue but have an independent bent and little tolerance for machine politics. Obama kicked Clinton's ass here even though she campaigned HARD in this state and HAD BEEN leading. Then afterward she said that Obama only won because we had a caucus and "only party activists vote in caucuses." What NERVE !!
We had the highest caucus turnout EVER with people from ALL walks of life!! It was UNREAL !! IT WAS AWESOME!! SHE LOST BECAUSE WE MAINERS WERE AND ARE SICK AND TIRED OF THE SAME OLD WASHINGTON POLITICS WHICH HILLARY AND MCCAIN REPRESENT. GO OBAMA !!

[seabeyond]

106. i read on

enjoyed. thanks. can hardly believe they are cutting so many people with their talk. on top of that, important states, they are cutting obama at the knees putting the blame of florida and michigan on his shoulders and he has nothing to do with it. it is like they are trying to set up a loss already

[pnwmom]

101. It's just the caucus systems I hate, not the people in caucus states.

I've lived in a caucus state, Washington, for more than 20 years and I know how undemocratic -- and unrepresentative -- they are. In our state, we had both a primary (which allocated zero delegates) and caucuses. The discrepancy in the vote counts between them was very high and extremely disturbing -- if you're someone like me, who thinks that the delegates should actually reflect the opinions of all the Democrats in a state.

[Glorfindel]

113. Caucuses would actually be BETTER for Mississippi Democrats

because there is no party registration. Almost no one votes in the Repuke primary. They all vote for the least electable Democrat, and then vote Repuke in the general election. And they BRAG about it. At least with caucuses you'd have the actual DEMOCRATS deciding the nominees.

[pnwmom]

120. We don't have party registration either. I still prefer primaries.

The people in our state strongly approved a referendum for primaries, but the Democratic party shot it down. So now we have a primary, but all the delegates come from caucuses. (The Republicans split their delegates between the primary and the caucus -- they're not as paranoid as we are, apparently.)

[Skidmore]

130. I love the caucus system. It is way much more honest than

voting machines that you can't trust. It is darned hard to stand in a room with your neighbors and family and not be remembered for trying to be dishonest. The only change I would make to our system is to make certain that voting days are at least a half day holiday so that all people can get to the caucus.

[pnwmom]

145. And it is impossible to stand in a room with others and vote a secret ballot,

which should be anyone's right. Intimidation is a REAL problem with caucuses. One of my friends told me that some of the bullying Obama men, interrupting and ridiculing a Clinton supporter's allocated 2 minute speech, continued until they reduced her to tears. And what if a spouse disagreed with his or her more domineering partner? Do you think that person would bother going to a caucus at all?

There's a good reason that all elections use secret ballots, and the exact same reason applies to caucuses. It's the only way to prevent intimidation.

Yes, voting machines have problems -- but that could all be avoided by counting paper ballots, like Canada does. And your confidence in vote counting at caucuses is misplaced. Here in Washington, we had many districts with errors and discrepancies in counting votes at caucuses.

[DoBotherMe]

179. I encountered that at my caucus.

It shocked me. It was the first time I had been intimidated by a candidate supporter during a caucus.

[pnwmom]

189. My friend said that in 28 years of attending caucuses, she'd never seen

anything like the atmosphere this year. If this is the new politics, it's worse than the old.

[Cha]

103. Righteous Rant, Skidmore...you

should send it to Dean and the Obama campaign and thank them. I know they would love to hear this amazing testimony from you.

[tammywammy]

105. Agreed!

Good Post.

[Malidictus Maximus]

107. Go back to your moonshine, duck hunting and tractor pulls, you redneck

and let *US*, the enlightened of California and Vermont (well, and a few of the brighter ones in Conn, NY and Seattle) save your sorry ass in that Republican infested red state hell-house you live in

:sarcasm: :evilgrin:

Only jivin' you because I'm jealous you get to caucus :-)

[awaysidetraveler]

109. Believe in their denials of us, allow them to divide us and we stand a chance of dying.

You took the words out of my mouth and put them in words more eloquent than my own.

It's fine... they won't divide us and we'll pull through better than before.

There's something going on the the heartland, something amazing shifting,
and it's nothing that Hillary can despoil.

[Skidmore]

132. We ARE the UNITED STATES of America. Isn't it absolutely

amazing how some people would have us forget that? It is going to happen as long as I can draw breath. We will keep fanning the flame, because that flame is freedom and it cannot be allowed to die.

[BlueJac]

111. Nice Post.....

This party has many problems. The status quo sucks.

[grantcart]

114. I live in a red district in a blue state - they all count

[CoffeeCat]

117. Proud to kick and rec'mend...

..this awesome, inspiring and well-articulated post.

Proud to share the same state as you, Skidmore!

:)

[Skidmore]

143. Hi, TwoSparkles!

An honor to be your neighbor! We'll keep fanning those flames well into the future.

[NewHampshireDem]

118. If we can do it in New Hampshire

It can be done anywhere.

Thanks for the wakeup call ... and, yes, thank you thank you thank you Howard Dean for the 50 State Strategy!

[alteredstate]

121. kicked and recommended

[cooolandrew]

122. K&R. Powerful post.

[Norrin Radd]

124. I agree with not discounting those in so-called red states,

as I grew up in one, but I also object to the term "heartland." Fair is fair.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

125. I agree completely.

Same prejudice, different state:


Lots of people post on DU that think that everybody in Texas is an ignorant, rightwing redneck.


I'm born and raised in Texas. I've lived here all my life, even went to college here and got a very fine liberal arts education.


I studied classical music my entire life (since age 5), have been a steady concert goer at oldie rock concerts, jazz concerts, the symphony, the opera and the ballet, and I have read The New Yorker for decades for liberal opinion pieces. I've studied three different foreign languages, all Romance (Latin, Italian and Spanish). I have three college degrees including a doctorate.


My parents and grandparents were loyal progressive Democrats. My parents campaigned for Henry B. Gonzalez for Governor way back in 1958, before the Civil Rights movement got going. They told me stories of how great Adlai Stevenson and Harry S Truman were, and how FDR saved the country from a revolution. My dad voted for Socialist Norman Thomas in 1932, because there was no difference in the Democratic and Republican platforms.


Dad was a union organizer. He told me that in the Depression, if you appeared at a picket line, you immediately got your skull cracked open by the cops, and you got arrested and hauled off to jail. The only labor lawyer in Houston's wife bailed everybody out of jail, because nobody had any money.


I pushed cards for Sissy Farenthold for Governor at the polls in 1972. We had three pictures of John F. Kennedy on the wall when I was growing up. We were active in Democratic politics my entire life.


And I've never owned a pickup, cowboy boots or a cowboy hat. I've never been to the Houston Livestock Show & Rodeo (largest in the world) and I can't stand "New Country" music. I've seen Chet Atkins in Memphis, but then, he was a real musician and didn't whine or commit pedal steel guitar abuse.


So don't call me a neocon redneck shitkicker just because I'm in a state that Bush practiced ruining before he got the SCROTUS to steal the national election for him.


It's not true, y'all.

[NM Independent]

128. I'll K&R the hell out of that

[ColesCountyDem]

136. Testify!

Although Illinois is NOW reliably blue, I'm old enough to remember when that wasn't the case. If the folks in urban America think that times have been or are tough right now, step out into 'flyover country' and take a look at things-- it's even WORSE!

[Omaha Steve]

137. Right on the money!

K&R.

[hraka]

140. I live in Oregon...

where we hold our primary in May, usually long after the party's decided who is going to run. This year might be different - our vote actually may count in the presidential primary. (It'd be the 1st time in the 28 years I've been voting - always Dem I might add.)

[Skidmore]

144. Thanks for your story.

This is exactly why Dean's strategy is a good one. We need the whole country to be involved in the decisions of a national election, not just a half-dozen states who happen to have large urban centers. Lots of Dems out in the hinterlands who have gone ignored by the national party for way too long. That approach has been costly to the party and the nation.

[Apollo11]

146. Calling it "the heartland" is another way of saying that folks on the coasts are less American.

If you live in Iowa, you live in the Mid-West. Don't keep calling it the heartland. Makes it sound like folks in the rest of America don't have a heart. Or at least - not as much as you do.

[sasquatch]

147. I think a few plains states will be the ones that swing the election our way

Just my .02

[goclark]

149. Yea for you keep k for the Heartland

[annabanana]

150. (blue stater who loves the heartland miffed)

(resents the broad brush and has nose somewhat out of joint)

(just pouting a little here in the corner, don't mind me)

[Skidmore]

152. Don't pout, anna.

It gets frustrating out here, and this election cycle has been trying indeed because we've worked so hard to turn things around. We support blue staters and would just like some support and recognition in return.

[annabanana]

160. I am in awe of you guys who can stay blue in a red sea...

Really. . Out where it take GUTS to put your DU bumpersticker out there where everyone can see it!

[Skidmore]

163. You know what Patrick Henry said?

"Give me liberty or give me death." I choose liberty.

[man4allcats]

154. Hear, hear! You are not alone.

Many of us are sick of listening to the condescending remarks of these arrogant people.

[libbygurl]

156. Yes, how DARE you!

LOL.

[knixphan]

157. I'm a NY'er in LA

And I can tell ya there's a hell of a lot of 'Red' once you go from NYC into NY state, and in CA outside of Los Angeles and SF.

And at least ONE of the candidates in this election actually cares about the little blue points of light in all states...

[Iggo]

158. How DARE you accuse me...

...of looking down my nose at you.

[FATCATs]

159. I get your point, And

I live in Illinois, A solid BLUE state. Unfortunately I live in Northern Illinois,Rockford the 16th Congressional District, A solid Republican enclave.

So in some ways I can sympathize with what you are saying.
Hang in there and keep fighting, I for one appreciate it no matter
where you live because we are all in this together.

And for Christ sake I hope this Obama/Clinton thing ends soon
It is tearing or community apart.

Think about it.

[knixphan]

162. wasn't it HRC...

Who made those remarks, diminishing the states Obama won as insignificant?

[Skidmore]

164. Yes, she did. Something akin to shooting herself in the foot because

she and her politicos apparently forgot that there were people in red states who voted for them. I guess once the vote was done, her voters didn't count either.

[midnight]

165. I don't know if the Democratic Party got lazy, but I do know that

we have had a few elections stolen from us that has brought us to this sorry state we are in now. Please be careful about election visibility issues. "Because the Democratic Party got lazy and sat on its collective ass assuming that the New Deal would last forever." I think the dismantling of our attorney generals and the corrupt judges are were we need to be very vigilant right now. Open visible voting ,and then we get the people we elect.

[midnight]

166. I don't know if the Democratic Party got lazy, but I do know that

we have had a few elections stolen from us that has brought us to this sorry state we are in now. Please be careful about election visibility issues. "Because the Democratic Party got lazy and sat on its collective ass assuming that the New Deal would last forever." I think the dismantling of our attorney generals and the corrupt judges are were we need to be very vigilant right now. Open visible voting ,and then we get the people we elect.

[Bread and Circus]

167. what's funny to me is that hillary tells us the red states don't matter but she

is being kept alive by the red areas of the blue states. Poor rural whites of the red parts of Ohio, it but one example.

[eShirl]

168. sympathizing with you from a rural blue state

[RoadRage]

171. K&R from a girl in Nebraska.. a state that TOTALLY DOES NOT COUNT!!

[Mabus]

172. As someone who just relocated from Kansas: Right on!

I know what you are talking about. One of the worst fallouts from all the snide, snarky remarks is that it kills the people doing ground work. I can't tell you how many Dems I spoke with in 2000 who wouldn't vote because they believe the crap that Kansas didn't matter. The ones that were voting were voting for Nader because they wanted to make a statement of how they felt disenfranchised. I kept telling people that if they didn't vote that we were just handing the state to the GOP.

Their attitudes started changing in 2004 and in 2006 enough of them got fed up and, thanks to Dean's 50 state strategy, they believed they could make a difference. We've got more elected Democratic officials than we've had in, maybe, ever.

Happy to be recommend #100.

[xxqqqzme]

174. hey, don't get all in our face. Blus states

have been struggling too. The DNC, under non-leadership of the dlc, used this blue state as an ATM. The only time the DNC showed up was when they wanted money. We had great democrats running in publican districts but do you think any money came back or went their way....why no, because they weren't viable. It took MoveOn, PDA & DFA to get Democratic candidates elected. Now we have DNC staff here and it is making a difference in the publican districts.

The good doctor may have saved the Democratic Party.

[John Q. Citizen]

176. Here a big hello from Montana to you Skidmore! Obama and the grass roots are taking back the power!

[BattyDem]

180. I don't feel that way about the heartland

As a matter of fact, I'm pissed off at the Dems for the 17 state strategy. How can you build a majority and win national elections if you ignore most of the states in the country? That's just plain stupid! :grr:

That's why I love having Howard Dean as the DNC chair. It's also one of the reasons I support Obama. He understands that there are 50 states and even the so-called red states have plenty of Democratic voters. We need to stop dividing this country into red and blue states. It's not a competition - we're all in this mess together and if we continue to view other people as the enemy (I'm not talking about die-hard, partisan politicians - I'm talking about average people), then the problems we have won't ever get solved.

I honestly don't believe that the majority of the people in this country are as divided as the partisans want us to believe. We all want the same things for our families - it's the freakin' partisan nutjobs, who view politics as a sport instead of public service, that created the red/blue mindset. As a result, many people vote against their own self interests ... which is exactly what they want because it keeps them wealthy and powerful.


A hug for all red state DUers from this blue stater. :hug:

[debbierlus]

181. We need a popular vote count system

That way, the liberals will be represented across the board

[Connonym]

182. not that I'm bragging, but my heartland state IS blue hehehehe

I got the best of both worlds baby! Keepin' it real in Wisconsin (and yeah I realize that I sound like a lunatic but it's only because I've been awake for about 36 hours at this point)

[DWilliamsamh]

187. AMEN

I am not from the "red states" nor did I grow up in or get my education in a rural area or the Midwest. I have been wondering WTF is wrong with Democrats who say "why waste our time in Kansas, we'll never win there." Well last time I checked Kansas elected a Democratic Governor. I KNOW it is completely insulting to say that the two to one lead in states won by a certain senator is meaningless because he "only" won states Democrats never win. (Not only is it insulting it is inaccurate and irrelevant to the general election)

I say he won those states because, like Howard Dean, he realized that the only way to win there is to FIGHT there. To work there. Like Howard Dean, he knows that reserving your sermon for the choir is pointless mental masturbation. True, the Democratic party will not win all the "Red States" by campaigning there but we WILL win some. And if we stay after the elections, who know maybe we will win a couple more the time after that.

I am so sick of hearing rank and file Democrats bitching an moaning that their representative aren't even willing look like they will fight much less take a stand, roll over and beg for mercy before the fight has even begun when it come to campaigns in the midwest and great plains. Maybe that's why their representatives don't fight: they are taking their queues from their constituents.

Thank you for keeping the fires burning. THIS Democrat (and a LOT more) appreciate your efforts and applaud you for your love of Country first and foremost. It is love of country - more accurately the CITIZENS of this country - that makes me a Democrat.

[Burma Jones]

190. True True, but we sure as hell will never win without NY, NJ, CA

MD, MA and all those other Elitist havens that you have condemned with your broad brush.

Sorry, but I had my fill of this crap back in 2004, use your ignore button for those assholes sneering at you and the others that have had a much harder row to hoe out on the Prairie. As for me, I appreciate what you're doing but get pissed off getting attacked just because I live in a state that votes the way you want your own state to vote.

[jconner27]

191. Fuck Iowa

Would the Autobots allow the Decepticons pick their leader? No
Would the Justice League allow the Legion of Doom pick their leader? No
Would the Boston Red Sox allow the New York Yankees pick who's going to be on the roster? No
So why Obama supporters don't mind the majority of the states he won, won't even go to him in the general election?