Thom Hartman is saying that the Bristol pregnancy is fake

[undeterred]

and the whole thing is covering up her first pregnancy- so the baby Trig is hers. Thom is talking on my local Air America in Madison. Apparently his sources are other media people, who are all over Alaska. He predicts Palin will be off the ticket soon, maybe even TODAY.

[BeyondGeography]

1. For a smart guy, Hartman says some dumb-assed things sometimes

[undeterred]

6. Thom is at the Republican convention.

[BeyondGeography]

11. We should quit while we're ahead on this one

Plenty of pictures of Gov. Palin looking pregnant have emerged, and she has admitted that her abstinence-only politics failed to get her daughter through childhood without getting pregnant. Mission accomplished for our side.

Pushing the Trig angle now makes us look as loony as them. Hartman should STFU.

[demwing]

15. I agree we should let this one go for now

but where are these "plenty of pictures" that you talk of?

[BeyondGeography]

17. ...

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/31/234157/516/1017/581734

[Matariki]

22. That's one picture. Taken from free republic I might add.

And check out this thread about photo time stamp data: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3896043&mesg_id=3896043

[kristopher]

97. AP Photo 1 month before delivery of Palin with FLAT stomach

http://www.daylife.com/photo/0fcQ5EM7gafd9
Don't let the dark clothes fool you. Download and lighten (increase exposure) the photo and it reveals an open coat and a totally flat stomach.

[cameozalaznick]

34. Here's a picture of her showing pregnancy

Sorry, I couldn't resist

[seabeyond]

31. she went from not showing and in 1 month and 1 week showing what all of our

bodies take 4, 5, 6 months to do.

[AuntPatsy]

57. some very interesting pics and commentary on this site...

http://cajunboy.tumblr.com/

[seabeyond]

60. isnt this intersting. i didnt have time to read, quickly perused. will look closer

thanks

[krkaufman]

74. Interesting point. Pillows? "empathy belly"?

[bdamomma]

50. I agree too,

let the RW media shoot themselves in the foot talking about this. (I am not saying Thom is RW) the media is tripping all over themselves on this, and hopefully it will spell doom for the McCain campaign.

[krkaufman]

75. Let The National Enquirer go after it. nt

[JVS]

94. The enquirer has to be lured back into the game.

They already got a Prego Daughter story, That's enough for them. The whispering campaign has to continue. Palin's story has settled it for the papers unless the story is kept alive among the people

[DaLittle Kitty]

20. show Me One? Washboard Abs at 7 Months! Give Me A Break! New Prg Report Is More Cuverup!

The kid was prego before when Ma was NOT... If pics legit then Plaio is Historio! And hopefully so is McLecher! However thought of retaining Cheney as VP is DISTURBING!

[BeyondGeography]

32. Fine...run with it

you'll go straight into a wall.

[seabeyond]

28. why was her daughter out of school 5 months with mono. why did sarah

get on plane away from medical care, exhausting her body from 4am to midnight, without seeking medical help. that is unheard. simple enough. unheard of. not done. at all. ever.

[tavalon]

86. This is all true

but we need to let this one go now. We have the meat we need. She is under such intense scrutiny, she will be out of the race within the week. The job is done.

[Matariki]

89. perhaps. but notice how they scrambled to cover it? true or not?

makes you wonder right? and if it's true, they sure covered it in an oddly desperate way, don't you think? surely birth records would have been easier on her family, no?

which makes you wonder if it's something they know would take her out of the race. maybe even wreck her career?

[tavalon]

90. Yeah, the whole thing has been whacky, whacky, whacky

[Matariki]

92. Yeah well, she's a whacky candidate. But we all laughed at Bush too.

so I'd say go at her with everything. Especially the stuff they seem the most desperate to cover up.

[tavalon]

93. And if she isn't back home in Alaska by this time next week, I will be back on this

Her candidacy appears to be DOA so there isn't any need for this one anymore. It got the press to sit up and decide to do their jobs. And funny thing, when they turned over that log, it was full of termites. As far as I can tell, our job is done. If it isn't, I'll roll up my sleeves and jump right back in next week, this time. I know Sarah Palin wasn't pregnant but for now, that isn't important.

[grannie4peace]

2. gosh, i hope so

[senseandsensibility]

3. Thom is reliable

But this sounds so far fetched....tired of the drama? Vote Obama.

[bdamomma]

51. like Obama said

ENOUGH.

[AuntPatsy]

56. Omg what a good campaign add and or sticker make a thread?

[Matariki]

4. Ha.

seems so obvious.

[marylanddem]

5. Is there a link?

[undeterred]

8. No I am listening to him live on air at the mic 92.1

which will be over in a minute- but I suspect he will say more on his show today 11am-2pm CST on Air Americaa Radio.

[POAS]

16. self delete --- wrong place

[SoCalDem]

7. lingering "baby-fat"..followed by an unfortunate miscarriage

but they better act quickly..after a certain time , you have to have a funeral

timeline

[undeterred]

9. He said he thinks they will act now at the convention.

Edit: Look for Lieberman or Romney, probably Romney

[onenote]

53. anyone who thinks that Palin will be replaced by Lieberman is drunk

The convention went orgasmic because an extreme right to lifer was picked. They'd burn the building down if they thought Palin was being thrown under the bus for someone with a pro-choice record.

[Lucinda]

59. Yup

[tomg]

62. Gotta go with Elmer Gantry

Mike "The Huckster" Huckabee is the only thing that might have a snowball's chance of getting through. In fact, I'm going all in for a final Romney/Huckabee ticket.

[kayell]

95. Just what I've been thinking.

Huckabee saves the fundie day. And eventually, all the little fundies acknowledge that yes, it's oh so true, women just really need to stay at home raising their families or terrible, terrible things happen. So sad that such a seemingly religious woman wandered so far into error. But Huckabee, HUCKABEE, now there's a real GAWDLY man. (and per Leviticus, as a preacher, if his daughter goes out and fornicates and gets pregnant, he has biblical permission to burn her, unlike poor Sarah)

Of course, I'm just about cynical to think it was always planned that way. The horror we here feel at a seemingly atrocious vetting process may not have any real affect on the less politically involved.

[Fridays Child]

21. Did she leave school, transfer to a school in Anchorage, or both?

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/09/sarah_palins_teenage_daughter.html

If the assistant principal quoted in the above-linked article is correct, I'm curious as to why she would have left her family and all of her friends, in the middle of her junior year, to transfer to a high school that's more than 40 miles away from Wasilla. Did she need to be near a larger city hospital that had a NICU? Was baby Trig born earlier than reported?

As for Sarah, it just doesn't make sense that a 44-year old woman with a history of four previous pregnancies would travel many hours by plane, after an amniotic fluid leak, then drive another 40 miles to a hospital without a NICU to deliver a premature, high risk baby. Had the baby already been born and his health stabilized by April 18? When she announced her pregnancy on March 8, was it after the baby had been born and it was clear that he would survive?

[SoCalDem]

23. maybe both.. here's my timeline

[Fridays Child]

38. If I were poking around up in Alaska, I'd be looking at birth records from before March 8...

...of babies born in Anchorage hospitals that have NICUs. If Trig was born in March, that'd mean that Bristol may have been pregnant as early as July 2007. With a first pregnancy and a small baby (as Down Syndrome babies are) she easily could have stayed at school in Wasilla for up to six months, before transferring to Anchorage.

[Cosmocat]

42. This is a BS story of the highest degree ...

NO Fin WAY a doc approves a woman, ANY woman, much less one with the variables you noted, on a freakin plane after she was diagnosed with an amniotic leak ...

AND, IF all this was true, this is maternal irresponsibility one step short of having a new born in a bathroom and throwing it in the trash.

[shellgame26]

40. that's what I think too

First, she'll drop out for "personal reasons" of course, then soonafter we'll hear the sad announcement of a miscarriage.

[WinkyDink]

44. There will be no nothin', post-drop-out.

[SmokingJacket]

10. That's kind of radical!

Well... it'll all work itself out... soon...

[undeterred]

12. Also he said the police up there are dressed like "ninja turtles"

[kwyjibo]

35. you mean, no clothing except for masks and knee bands?

[POAS]

13. As posters above have said

it seems far fetched, but everything about this Palin fiasco has been far fetched.

I've seen a pic from last Friday or Saturday where Bristol definitely looks pregnant while carrying young Trig on her chest. Does that prove she is pregnant? No, but it is circumstantial evidence.

Does Bristol's announced pregnancy negate the possibility that Trig is her baby? No, even the Palin's own timeline (saying Bristol is about 5 months pregnant) does nothing to quash that rumor. An why is Bristol's current state even an issue? Because Sarah is using it to suppress the rumor about Trig's parentage.

Would they, could they make up lies about their own kid to further their own careers? You betcha, and only time and persistence will sort out the truth.

[krkaufman]

76. She may look a bit prego, but it could just be weight she hasn't lost from the earlier birth. nt

[tritsofme]

14. She may well be off the ticket, but not because of this loony crap.

But because of her AIP affiliation.

[undeterred]

19. She clearly wasn't vetted properly before McCain chose her

and a flood of reporters is not talking to anyone and everyone in Alaska about her. She can't control it. Next time Gramps doesn't get to pick the VP nominee by himself.

[krkaufman]

77. Hell, McCain didn't choose Palin. She was forced onto him ...

... by the Right Wing base.

[SoCalDem]

30. This "looney" stuff was the HOOK to get the lazy press off their asses

and to start delving further.. Call it bait, if you will..

Mom put herself and her kids right on the bulleye because SHE is overly ambitious and batshit crazy..

[POAS]

18. I'll go Thom one better

Palin won't be Governor by the end of the year.

[krkaufman]

78. Could be true. The Troopergate scandal can finish her off. nt

[seabeyond]

24. you know why i have to keep on it. i saw two videos of palin over 7 months preg

both videos showed her doing physical things a preg body cannot, cannot.... cant do. period.

it is video. easy to see. and body cant do it.

also, over 7 months, she isnt showing. 1 month and 1 week later she has baby and picture shows totally preg. how does her body do in a month and a week what all of our bodies take 4, 5, 6 months to do

[DemReadingDU]

43. My husband says that perhaps Sarah was wearing a pillow

[seabeyond]

47. bet you can order a preg harness on net

[helderheid]

54. It is called an Empathy Belly:

http://www.empathybelly.org/home.html

[IndyOp]

25. Thom did *NOT* say that -- at least not on his show yesterday (Monday)...

On Monday, a caller to his show said that the Bristol Palin pregnancy was a fake and Thom was talking with the caller asking the caller if that was what she really believed. He did not take any position on whose baby was whose...

He did predict that Palin may be off the ticket soon.

[undeterred]

36. this was live on air this morning right before 8am cst

thom is a media guy and in touch with lots of other people who are researching this story in alaska...things change quickly

[ITsec]

26. My wife and I thought the same thing

last night.

[valerief]

27. That's what I've been saying. Wait for the convenient miscarriage. But the issue is AIP. nt

[WeDidIt]

29. undeterred is saying that Bristol was made pregnant by Larry Sinclair

Well, some poster on undeterred's tthread said that, anyway.

[undeterred]

37. no it was hurricane gustav

[seabeyond]

58. wait... sarah said media did it. n/t

[LaydeeBug]

33. I gotta tell you, I thought the rumor about this baby has been false.

that this is how they dulled the point of the teenage pregnancy stat. Otherwise, I say we nominate Palin for mother of the year.

What a GREAT job she's done with that sex education I'm sure she opposes for public schools.

[Canuckistanian]

39. I hope he's got some real evidence

Thom is not given to tinfoil-hattery, so I'm hoping he has some actual news.

[Pachamama]

41. Whoa! If Thom Hartmann is saying this, then he's got real hard

facts and sources coming in....

Unlike others, Thom doesn't do rumors....

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beausoir]

52. Pervert.

[Pachamama]

64. What????

You want to see what anatomy of a minor?

I think that this is a highly inappropriate and sexist and offensive suggestion....It also has absolutely nothing to do with my statement as to Thom Hartmann's credibility.

[mnhtnbb]

45. Hmm. From pictures of Bristol at the McCain/Palin announcement

I would say she looks like she could either be pregnant, or a nursing mother who hasn't yet lost
the baby weight from pregnancy.

Sarah Palin, on the other hand, looks NOTHING like a nursing mother, which she claims to be.

[jazzjunkysue]

66. Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding!!!!! That's what I'm saying: You can see these things.

The video of her flying up the icy stairs 7 months pregnant. Right. And who announces a pregnancy in their 7th month, anyway?

It's just not making sense. None of it.

[undeterred]

48. Alaska has 650,000 people

which is about the population size of a Congressional district. Lots of small towns where everybody knows everybody. Wasilla is only 9000 people and the press is all over it. There will be no stone left unturned. Somehow McCain asked her to be VP without sending anyone up there ahead of time. Now the whole world will know everything and the ONLY way to kill this story is for her to drop out. Then its no longer a story for the rest of the country.

[book_worm]

49. he shouldn't be spreading unsubstantiated rumors.

[Arugula Latte]

55. I think there's a chance he's right, but he shouldn't say it definitively.

[renie408]

61. Holy Moly, Batman. Is he talking out of his ass or does that rumor have legs? n/t

[FatDave]

65. I don't think I've ever heard Thom Hartman talk out of his ass.

There's always a first time, but the man's usually spot on. That he says it's coming from media in Alaska, well, I'm inclined to believe him.

[regnaD kciN]

63. So, let me get this straight...

...the purpose of SP claiming to be Trig's mother was to spare BP the shame of admitting she had premarital sex. So, when bloggers and some reporters question the oddities behind Trig's birth, the Palins decide to cover it up by spreading a false report that BP is now pregnant (i.e. admitting she had premarital sex).

In other words, admitting to what they were trying to cover up in order to cover up the cover-up.

:wtf:

I don't know...I like Thom Hartman, but he seems to be able to "turn on a dime" from incredibly perceptive observations on our constitutional system and the state of power in the U.S. today straight into the most ludicrous conspiracy theories I've ever heard. I tend to suspect that's the case here...because, if it isn't, the Palin family has launched the most blindingly stupid cover-up attempt of all time. And, even given what we know about SP already, that seems a bit much to believe.

[jazzjunkysue]

67. By putting it on radio, it forces her hand to prove it, either way. Good for him.

I also think he'd never do this to someone without good sources. And it would figure that he'd have good sources.

Remember that no one on DU was screaming Bristol's pregnant on here. We were targeting the palin lie that she's the mother. Not at all the same thing.

And I see nothing wrong with prusuing the idea that Palin's lying, now.

She lies about everything else.

[Nine]

68. Not exactly.

Palin faking a pregnancy for her daughter would have been MUCH more damaging than her daughter just being pregnant. Even though they were originally trying to hide Bristol's pregnancy, it became the lesser of two evils once the fakery threatened to be revealed.

[Matariki]

69. Ha, Especially if she went around with pillows under her clothes for a month!

How is *that* gonna look? LOL

[krkaufman]

79. I wholly agree with your take on Hartmann. I love him, but he does *sometimes* ...

... go a bridge too far.

As for the Palin "coverup," it's possible the original alleged BP pregnancy was covered up not so much to save BP from shame, but to save her mom from the political embarrassment -- being such an ardent supporter of abstinence-only education.



Just speculating, because it's fun.

[the Sundance Kid]

84. no they aren't trying to hide Bristol's Pregnancy

they're trying to hide her Mother's massive Public deception.

[nsd]

70. Wow, I had hoped this rumor was dead and buried.

This is tinfoil conspiracy theory of the highest order. There is no way this is true. Multiple reasons: 1) the odds of a 17-year-old having a baby with Down syndrome are vanishingly small; 2) the pictures of Palin looking pregnant by the Anchorage TV station; 3) the fact that multiple people (doctors, nurses) would have had to be in on it and might have needed to falsify medical records; 4) the number of potential witnesses in that small town (the daughter was not in seclusion -- she got into a traffic accident a month before the birth); 5) the pictures of the daughter looking pregnant on Friday; 6) the fact that the McCain campaign would have to be brought in on the deception and would have to agree to risk everything for the sake of Sarah Palin; and 7) the sheer batshit craziness of the whole idea.

Seriously, there are a LOT of things wrong with the Palin candidacy. Let's focus on them.

[mhatrw]

71. You could be right.

But we haven't seen any medical records.

We haven't heard from any doctors.

We haven't heard from anybody in Alaska about this.

Where did you hear that the daughter was in a traffic accident? Link?

I agree that there are better issues, but this one still needs to have some loose ends tied up.

[krkaufman]

81. Can't argue with any of your bullet points except #6

There's no telling whether Sarah Palin would feel the need to inform the McCain campaign, if they thought they could get away with it.


(just having fun)

[tavalon]

88. During my career,

I have been in on about 50 deliveries of Down's Syndrome kids. Only two were to mothers who were over 40. Only two.

That said, even though this is suspicious, we have more than enough blood in the water. We can and should let this one go. Not because it isn't true, it likely IS true, but because this game is almost over. She'll be out of the race within a week. And we got the media interested with the sex scandal and deception, but now that they've started doing their job, we don't need to lead them by the nose anymore.

Now, if she isn't out by next week and especially if the media loses interest, we can and should pull this one back out. Not because it's the most important problem around Sarah Palin but because it's the one that can and has gotten legs.

[Overseas]

72. I was listening to Thom and don't think he said that. He discussed various rumors but

I don't remember him talking about that one.

He seemed more concerned about her ethical violations and lack of qualifications and extreme fundamentalist views.

He did say he thought she would no longer be their nominee by the end of the week.

[krkaufman]

73. Interesting theory, reviving the previous rumor. nt

[samuraiguppy]

80. fundies suck

and they are taking over the world by having 5 kids each. definitely a good argument for abortion.

[Eurobabe]

82. The daughter sure does take care of that baby alot, doesn't she?

Makes you wonder?

[trashcanistanista]

83. I agree.

What gives it away for me is that Plain used her daughter's "alleged" pregnancy to dispel a rumor about HER. She could have easily provided a birth certificate or medical record rather than subject this child to the onslaught of public shame and humiliation that she, as an adult and public figure KNEW would happen.

I think Palin did this to her daughter because she is furious with her and is punishing her for the "sin" of not only having risky sex, but having an inconvenient special needs baby, maybe FAS, also risky behavior which could impact her career.
She wants this kid to pay, Bristol will be the example to the others so it will not happen again.

This is crazy, fundie behavior, but that is what she is about, and an easy out for her at the same time by claiming the kid is five months pregnant. Five months, throws off the rumor and effectively kills it.

I don't think it can be covered up forever. Just my take on it.

[tavalon]

85. She was covering her belly at the announcement of her mother as VP candidate

Now, what is more likely true is that she is only about 4 months pregnant and her mother inflated the number to make it impossible that Bristol had the other baby. If this is Bristol's second baby, she would have a baby bump about the size of what she was covering. If this is her first baby, the bump she had was consistent with about 5 months pregnant. It is hard for me to believe that she went straight from one to the next pregnancy though.

[Hekate]

87. Thom needs to get the message that this is a job for the National Enquirer. It's out, & we can...

... go to work on the many other skeletons in her walk-in closet, like firing everyone who won't do what she says immediately, using her office for personal revenge, belonging to a secessionist political party, redirecting money to churches and away from public projects, lobbying for millions in pork barrel projects for her home town -- those kinds of things.

Hekate

[Matariki]

91. I find it interesting the people are so quick to call this 'loony', etc

When what's really loony is the way she acted when her water broke. And the way she acted to 'dispel' this rumor.

If the kid is hers then why dispel an easily verified, blameless fact with a big public humiliation of your daughter?

[Blarch]

96. Hartman never said that.

He never said this was fake. You are lying.