My 11 year old daughter's friend

[gabby garcia]

who comes home with us every day (5 days a week) for a few hours because her Grandma/Guardian works until 5:00 (a teacher at our grade school) noticed my Obama shirt the other day. She then told me that she doesn't like Obama because "he wants to kill babies" (her words verbatim!). I am seriously at a loss here - her Grandma was my younger son and daughter's 1st grade teacher and I know she is Catholic. Can I even respond to this and if so - how?

[cyr330]

1. I am sure this would be inappropriate. . .

But wouldn't it be fun to tell her that that is a goddamn lie?

[seabeyond]

91. you are right

we should never question a lie. wink

[quiet.american]

2. Well. One could start with the truth, that being, Obama does not want to kill babies.

Then take it from there.

[gabby garcia]

11. well I did say that much! But..

was wary of going much further in depth with this girl. Her Mother (drug addict) has pretty much abandoned her and Grandma is raising her - I know little else about them other than the Catholic bit.

Suggestions welcome!

[IndyOp]

26. Given her personal experience of being abandoned by her mother - I think that talking about

the ways that Obama wants to care for children would be helpful for her psychological health. It seems likely to me that she is "taken with" a false statement she overheard or was told because it feels like her own personal experience. As a corrective, if Obama comes up in conversation again, talk with her about about Obama's desire to work to make sure that all children have health care and education, talk about how he is a good father to his own daughters.

The abortion issue is, I think, too loaded to discuss with her at her age.

[quiet.american]

65. That's good to hear!

What can I say? It's a difficult subject. Perhaps I would just follow it with,

Obama believes its good to let people decide for themselves whether they would like to have children.

[d_b]

3. I wouldn't say anything to the child

what the Hell can you say? Sounds like a dramafest waiting to happen.

[bluestateguy]

4. Bush killed a lot of babies

1. Abortions went up during his presidency.

2. All those babies killed in Iraq.

[Tallison]

90. Yes, and Iraqi babies count, too

contrary to RW mentality that Iraqi lives are worth a fraction of an American one.

[Vincardog]

5. Ask her where she heard that lie?

[gateley]

6. What a horrible thing to tell a child.

And I commend you for thinking before you respond. I would have just come right out with something like -- Obama loves babies, that's ridiculous! That's just what people who don't like him say -- or something like that.

It IS disturbing. I'm sure you'll do what's right -- good luck!

[avaistheone1]

24. I like your take on it. It's very positve and doesn't place the child in an awkward position either

[MrModerate]

7. Alternatively, just say "we don't think so in our household . . ."

And leave it at that. Hectoring an 11-year-old is probably not a place you want to go to.

[blue neen]

8. You can't say much, other than

"Obama doesn't want to kill babies." That's it, IMHO.

[CANDO]

9. In 2004, my then 5 year old girl....

came home from Kindergarten saying the exact same thing! Some other kid told her John Kerry wants to kill unborn babies. I was so GD mad I could've spit fire! The things people teach their kids.

[seabeyond]

23. my kids went to a christian school. 2004 preacher at pulpit said kerry was a murderer. n/t

[FrenchieCat]

10. Just say.....

No, Obama was against the war. The one where the planes dropped big bombs on the babies and their mommies. Obama doesn't want that anymore for us.

[iamjoy]

12. Yes, You Can Respond

Ask her what she meant by her statement that Obama "wants to kill babies."

She will probably bring up abortion.

Ask her what she means by babies.

Don't be confrontational, just curious.

You may need to say something along the lines of it being a complicated issue. It will depend upon her level of sophistication as to how you respond. Be very respectful and gently ask her a lot of questions that don't really have yes or no answers.

If she's just parroting something she heard and responds by saying, "well, that's what _____ says." You have an opportunity to remind her that she's growing up now and while listening to parents and teachers is a good thing, she is mature enough to find out some facts and develop her own opinions on matters. The important thing is to respect those with different views.

[lligrd]

13. Tell Her McCain Wants To Kill Children

by not giving them health care and letting them starve if their parents are poor. At least that is true.

[otohara]

14. That's What They Tell Kids

I know some Catholic kids and they say they are republican's because they don't believe in abortion. I knew Catholic women who got abortions. She doesn't get it yet.

[Monk06]

18. Palin Kills Mommy & Daddy Moose & Wolves. Well let me just say this about that

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Motown_Johnny]

16. I was kinda thinking that too. Funny how nothing was known and then suddenly that comment was made

[Name removed]

19. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

22. and you are wrong, good of all you to come to one post. n/t

[seabeyond]

21. you are SO wrong. are you kidding? in 2004 the churches had flyers

sittin on the table after mass saying exactly this. we have people with bumpers on their cars saying this. i had to explain abortion to oldest son at about 9 cause he read it on a bumpersticker.

come into my word and see how much that smell premeates thru out our culture here in amarillo texas

[Sidney J Mussburger]

32. Smells like bullshit to me

I calls it like I sees it.

[gabby garcia]

33. well..

thanks for your concern then.

:eyes:

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

42. you are an ASS. n/t

[gabby garcia]

43. what is your problem?

seriously.

[seabeyond]

44. he lives in chicago and doesnt know wtf he is talking about

shows his ignorance all over the place. in so many ways.

[Sidney J Mussburger]

47. I live in Chicago

doesn't mean I grew up in Chicago. I'm from a town population 2100 full of fundies, so I know something about this. Want to see ignorance? Look in the mirror.

[seabeyond]

49. you. are. wrong. n/t

[MirrorAshes]

67. fwiw...

i dont think anyone with a spirited away av would have it in them to just make something like this up for the hell of it :toast:

[vaberella]

35. I felt the same. n/t

[seabeyond]

38. never lived in the bible belt? amongst fundies? a whole other world. n/t

[Sidney J Mussburger]

45. A whole other made up world

I grew up in the reddest of red in Seneca Illinois, Never did I experience anything like the fabricated tardedness of the OP. It never happened. And I'm not going to humor this bullshit story, neither should anyone else.

[seabeyond]

48. come down to the south or texas bubba. you are simply, plainly wrong

and you can clearly see it if you will read any of dobsons work (colorado springs) or the southern baptist convention rules.

[Sidney J Mussburger]

51. I don't like arguing with you

Let's just say we have differing opinions on stuff. Seabeyond, I like your spunk. Let's get em in November.

[seabeyond]

53. wow

that was changing gears.

interesting. i like oddity.

[Sidney J Mussburger]

60. Yeah, well, I like drinking beers

Every convo eventually comes to an end and in this case it came to an end with me drinking more beer. WooHoo!!

[rebel with a cause]

81. Seneca Illinois is still in Northern Illinois

Come down to the southern part of the state and we will teach you what it means to be in the Bible belt. I have a sister who had an abortion years ago because the doctor felt it was necessary to safe her life. This same sister is now a member of a evangelical church(Southern Baptist) and is a very anti-abortion. I usually have no contact with her, but recently due to my health she began to call me for a short period of time. On one occasion she questioned me about my feelings about the morning after pill, since she thinks it is the same as an abortion and that health care workers and druggist should have the right to refuse to dispense them to women who are prescribed them. When I said I disagreed with her, she became angry and so did I. I have not heard from her since. By the way, she is a democrat.

And she is only one of these people. My other sister who is also anti-abortion but not so radical, told me the other day that a friend from her church, who is a democrat is going to vote for mccain because she is so taken with palin. She feels that palin is the real thing and will change the way things are by appointing the 'right' people to the supreme court. When I told my sister that this woman was prejudice, she became defensive and insisted it was all about the abortion issue. Yeah, Gore and Kerry were both against pro-choice, right? Anyway, down here we are pretty much southern although we are still in Illinois. I live in the most liberal portion of the southern part of the state and there are still those here who are fanatically opposed to women having a choice when it comes to reproduction.

there is not very many days go by that my daughter and I don't talk about leaving here, but we are poor and leaving involves finding a way. Plus my health is bad and where we go would have to be somewhere that I can survive for a while. No apartment living for me anymore, those days are gone. God, I miss being young and healthier.

[Sidney J Mussburger]

86. Here we go

Northern Illinois my ass. It's middle of nowhere Illinois. Don't lecture me, I know where I'm from and it's Red County USA. Save your sob story for someone who cares. BTW, I do care, but not when someone's trying to guilt trip me by saying they're from a more southern part of the state than I am, that shit is weak. We got the same fuckin problems up north.

[rebel with a cause]

88. Nice chip you have on your shoulder there.

I was not giving you a guilt trip, I was giving you a compliment. Ask people that know the layout of the state. It is very different down here than it is in the Northern sector. This is a big state and the southern sector is much more 'southern'. You may be more red than we are, because we have quite a few democrats around here along with the republicans but sometimes they are all idiots. What we have down here are white counties, strong Southern Baptist organizations, and other nice things like that. Our culture is more attune to Kentucky and Missouri, which we are located much closer to than we are to where you are. We have pretty farm land and some really nice people, but there are enough negatives here that I want to pack up and leave much of the time. Where you live may suck more than here, but it is still different culturaly.

Edited to add. This is no sob story. I can tell you much worse things than this but I don't cry over things in my life so why should anyone else. I'll die laughing, at least I plan to.

[TooRaLoo]

85. Well not every place is like where you grew up.

Asshat. OP's situation happens ALL. THE. TIME. There is a whole world beyond your own nose, you know.

[Sidney J Mussburger]

87. Asshat?

OP's situation does happen all the time, and I see it everyday on DU. Same shit, day after day. I think it's mostly bullshit. That's my right as a citizen, to call bullshit on bullshit stories. I also think you're a shitstick. Also my right as a citizen.

[TooRaLoo]

89. Enjoy your rights.

Call bullshit all you want. Doesn't change the fact that it's coming from you.

[vaberella]

64. No, I never lived in the bible belt. But I was raised Catholic.

I went to Sunday school from kindergarten until High School, I went to Catholic elementary school, I went to Catholic All-Girls High School. In elemntary I was one of the first girls to be an alter server in the Catholic Church (anywhere) this was back in 1995 when the Vatican gave us permission (which gained me an award). I was also part of the Bible study club and First Friday Club in High School. I even attended for a few months a Catholic college. This also doesn't count that I recieved almost all my sacrements except two. Marriage and my last rites.

Not to mention I had religion class as a pre-requisite for over 15 years. I even dappeled in theology as a philosophical study. Although now I have issues with the church and have had such issues from when I was young. I attend a Bible reading club at my school, I read the Catholic news on Catholic Online, and I still attend church more as a CAPE Catholic (even though I have my issues as I mentioned earlier).

So do I have background in the Church? Yes. However, I wasn't sold fully on this. You may believe everything and I have no way of knowing what the Church in her location teaches (that the Grandmother/Guardian) but it wasn't holding up to par for me and I was going to call this BS.

Furthe more, it irked me that someone would actually think to put other thoughts into a mind of an 11 year old that is not her child. It just reeks of irresponsibility. You may not agree, but it's not your place.

[seabeyond]

69. it started in the beginning of 2004. these are the churches in panhandle of texas

my husband is catholic. the way minority. most are baptist. my firend is catholic and regular church goer, she told me about the flyers in her church. yawl got a new pope, the religious right battle was in full force and southern baptist and catholics united in the south anyway. i was raised in calif and lots of friends were catholic. most all friends were catholic and i didnt see any of this

if the girl says obama kills babies, .... then a no he doesnt is certainly called for.

[vaberella]

73. I again don't know what was taught in those Churches.

I lived in New York and attended all my schooling here. There was NEVER any such thing taught in my school and actually my schools were completely against talking about political issues IN the Church. In classes we talked politics but even my nuns who were very old school took a step back from charging a girl who was pregnant by rape or incest.

Plus, I have a few problems with the way the Church was lambasted on this thread since the thoughts and actions of one Church doesn't reflect the entirety. Similar to Father Phlegers actions and acts do not denote the attitude of the rest.

Again, you may agree with her on such things. But I can't stand it. I adore Obama and know the truth, but this is an 11 year old who will learn her own path and currently her path is being paved by her Guardian. Until such time as she's on her own I'm sure she'll have other views and thoughts. But, again, for someone to think they have a right to say something against the Guardian is wrong and can come back to hurt her. Hurt the kids relationship with each other and can escalate into something bigger. It's better to keep your mouth shut, and if the topic comes up between the kids keep your child well informed to speak to the girl. It's different when kids speak to each other than when adults get involved in teaching other kids.

I made the example of sex ed to the OP earlier. If the Guardian is saying unusual things about sexuality, it's not your place to speak about sex ed. For something less controversial, and to reverse the issue. If the Guardian told her daughter Obama was a baby killer...we all know she would be up and arms and would have word with the lady.

[rebel with a cause]

83. I agree that I would not say anything to the girl against the guardian.

I would merely say that I had not heard that and let it go.

But I have lived in NYC and I know that what is there is very different than what is going on in the southern part of the country, especially in the Bible belt. I know someone who had an abortion years ago and she still goes through so much questioning every time she goes to a new doctor that she hates getting medical attention because of it. The cross examinations she receives are ludicrous, and this is with medical personnel.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the persons in certain religious circles here are fanatical on this subject. That does not mean that all of our churches are that way. We have a priest that teaches in the University and as far as I know he is very liberal. We have churches that advocate the welcoming of all to their congregation and advocate the accepting of liberal ideals. But they are outnumbered by the fanatical churches that dot our area.

[TheFarseer]

56. are you kidding?

Where are you from? My mom teaches Catholic school and one of the priests was telling her first graders in graphic detail about partial birth abortion. My 100% against abortion mom was horrified. This kind of stuff absolutely happens.

[seabeyond]

58. churches have flyers sittin on table for as they leave on sunday

when i was in calif i didnt know all this stuff. living in texas i see all this stuff. personal in my face experience. for people to be so naive to NOT KNOW what is going on in these churches... well, they better wake up. another election is here and the religious right are going to rearing their ugly head again

[vaberella]

68. In High School, I had to watch the videos 5 times a year.

It was similar in elementary but less often. The purpose is to create fear so kids would abstain from sex. Of course it doesn't work since Catholic girls I think are the most sexually active people I know...Well really you get two types. The saint who thinks kissing is wrong (my group) and you get the Madonnas who've done it all and the dog. In any event, the idea is to promote abstenance.

I'm so used to it, it doesn't bug me. However, this scenario just seems weird to me. I'm not saying it's not true, but when I first read I had my doubts.

[seabeyond]

71. as i was telling another poster, in calif all my friends were catholic.

i had one that was the goody goody catholic girl. she would let him do EVERYTHING to her..... but. cause she was a good catholic girl. geeeez, yawl had confession on saturday night. they would tell me (and i am not bothered) that i would go to hell cause i didnt confess. had to confess to a priest. they went partin, drank, played with the boys and i truly was a good girl and would say ya right

anyway, just a fun memory.

but living in texas, and i just heard it again a month ago, catholics are not even considered christians. they are heathens. my friend was talking different religions and seperated catholic and i said, catholic are christian. no they are, they are are are well i dont know what they are, but they arent christian.

religious belt.

[MirrorAshes]

66. Its your concern that reeks of ignorance if you don't believe this could be true

the infanticide smear is alive and well, theres no good reason whatsoever to believe otherwise.

[Sidney J Mussburger]

70. My Concern?

What the hell? Is this upsidedownland? What the fuck? I smell bullshit on an outlandish story, and that makes me a concern troll how? Fuck that noise. I was right upthread, half of DU is challenged mentally.

[MirrorAshes]

77. its not the least bit outlandish

if you've been paying the least bit of attention you ought to know this kind of crap is flying around all over the place. YOU are the one who raised the spectre of the OP being dishonest, and for those of us who live in areas where we deal with this nonsense on a day to day basis it leaves 2 options in response to you: a) yes, you are indeed a "concern troll" or b) you just don't know what the hell is going on. pretty simple.

[mzmolly]

17. Frankly, I'd tell her that's not true and that sometimes people lie during

campaigns and sometimes people believe those lies.

[seabeyond]

20. that is a tough one. my son in argument at lunch table talking abortion. one of the boys said

your mom probably wanted to abort you.

straight out of the parents mouth i am sure. at first i was totally outraged, but then quickly went to this is what parents teach their children. learn well son

i think what i would do with this girl is tell her

she is talking abortion. i am against abortion. but i am not going to tell others the choice they should make so it makes me pro choice. not pro abortion

she is 11 so she is aware of enough of the male female i am sure, especially in todays world that gives our children adult sexuality at way too young an age. i would see where her conversation takes you. respecting her religion, but it is her religion. not all religions believes as hers, and we shouldnt have to follow their rules. not biblical, but church practice.

[madmunchie]

27. Kids have a tendency to parrot what their parents say

Then sometimes as they grow up they learn to think for themselves, sometimes not.

Personally, I would have said that her statement was incorrect and that he loves babies as much as anybody else and then leave it at that unless she says the word "abortion", and if she does, then say " some people believe that abortion is killing babies other people don't believe that abortion is killing babies. It is a choice that the woman who is pregnant and her doctor have to discuss and decide on, not you and not me.

[seabeyond]

37. when explaining it to son i had to take it away from babies to embryo and fetus

it is just not fair to give these young minds babies. what they see is a baby that we all cuddle oh and aw over.

i had another boy the other day, (always follows me around talking politics) tell me his father said mccain is more american than obama cause he fought. ah, clint, i tell him.... then that means all of military is more american than all the rest of us, does that make sense.

i get this stuff so much in my area. just friday i talked to the principal for quite a while about 90-95% of the kids believe all one way, and surely they will be able to handle the differing views of my boys, cause they will express. not allowed to parrot. have to read and research, every week read times mag and ALWAYS be respectful. but i told her, the people in this area just NEEDS to hear a different view. it is not good that ALL think the same.

[grantcart]

25. just sow doubt - "Do you really think that's true? does that seem reasonable?

children of the master of doubt - they will start questioning in their hearts whether they verbalize it or not.

[samuraiguppy]

28. at her age she can't vote--

so why beat up on the kid? It would be different if you could actually win a vote for our side--but if it is a child there isn't much sense in getting heavy handed with them.

[seabeyond]

39. firstly who is beating up the kid and shame to suggest it. secondly i encourage and am joyous

when our youth are talking politics regardless of not agreeing with them. jsut that they have opinions and are expressing and talking about it. i applaud it and think it is a wonderful thing.

[BensMom]

29. Oh Crap!

My daughter grew up with a friend that told her she would go to hell because we weren't church goers.
It upset my daughter and happened often.

I would have talks with my daughter to explain our beliefs and spirituality, it was damage control, but also forced me to be very honest with my daughter about our beliefs and values.

My daughter has grown up to be tolerant of everyone.
And to be able to differentiate true beliefs and spirituality from dogma and corporate religion.

Keeping it simple and honest worked for us.

It is not in any parenting manuals.
Good Luck.

[gabby garcia]

31. this happened to me when I was growing up

because I wasn't baptized was the reason given - scared the shit out of me when I was about 5.

[seabeyond]

46. my kids too have been told that. and generally when others are being hateful about something

the other kids are being hateful about, like gays, or muslims, or or or

i had to go into second grade and tell teachers, kid in new school, kids decided he wasnt christian. i let my kids battle this themselves (they had to do it a lot in a private christian school, always with love) but i just wanted her to be aware, just cause we see christianity differently (love) they are still christian. just in case anything escalates and she needs to be aware. lol.

BUT like with your child, i am not bothered by it. it has given my children such the ability to see so many sides and be so tolerant and think things thru i VALUE that they have gone thru this experience. and they are highly respected and trusted amongst their peers.

[gabby garcia]

30. for starters I am no troll.

I am albeit new to proactive politics but have voted as a democrat all my adult life. I was raised by an Atheist(my father) and agnostic(mother) and while I studied a bit of theology in college for personal reasons abstain from participating in any group religions. I do not want to offend this family but am distressed to see them imparting their ignorance and lack of open mindedness to this child. But I guess there is not much I can do but educate my own children and hope a bit may rub of on their friends and peers.

Thanks for all the responses y'all too!

gg

[seabeyond]

41. it wasnt you i was wondering about. i have comments like this often enough, and so much more

it just seems normal in my world.

[trueblue2007]

57. I don't believe you at all. I think your story is made up.

[Sidney J Mussburger]

80. ding ding ding ding

You've just won a DU Metal of Honesty! For those who dare question someone with a ridiculous story and aren't afraid of being criticized for it. Congrats!

[MirrorAshes]

84. metal of honesty?

this is getting rich.

[vaberella]

34. Leave it alone. It's not your place, nor your right

to tell the child differently w/o her guardians approval or knowledge. This is common sense, I hoped most people had it.

Do you think you'd have the right to give her a sex education course? No. So don't bother with this.

[gabby garcia]

36. I know I don't have that right,

just wish it was different for her.

[vaberella]

63. Understood...but why ask what you should say in the first place. n/t

[seabeyond]

72. not only does she have a right, but has a responsibility to say at least, no he does not want to

kill babies. absolutely

[vaberella]

74. I strongly disagree. n/t

[seabeyond]

76. i dont agree with you either, BUT

i really like the way you argue/discuss the issue

thanks.

[treestar]

75. You can't control everything your child hears

They'll always be exposed to other people in the world. That's a good thing.

We're all lucky we get to hear other opinions that just those of our parents.

Any parents saying hateful things like that to their kids - well, it is lucky for the kids that there are other, kinder and more caring adults out there that they can be exposed to.

[seabeyond]

78. this is how i think. i had this conversation with principal of kids middle school friday on this

i told her 90-95% of the kids all believe one way and one way only and is the only way they hear the story. this being election year my two boys are going ot express a totally different view. and i hope that all will be able to handle such a small number opposing hteir thoughts compared to the overwhelming majority. i told her that the kids need to at least HEAR differing views.

she asked me to be the ONE parent advisor with a group of teachers, adm and aisd for regular meetings.

she is not opposed to differing views and she is part of the whole. scares her not.

i have the kids sittin with me, following me around talking politics. told principal one particular student and she as flabberghasted that this kid "thought". his mom was to when i told her. the kid wont STOP when he is with me. i love kids expressing, even when i dont agree. and i have never had a problem when an adult would actually take the time to interact with my kids, connect with them, even with differing views. that alone is a WHOLE wonderful lesson for boys.

[JimGinPA]

50. A Girl That Used To Cut My Hair Said The Same Thing To Me About Kerry In 2004

I wonder where the fuck (church) people get those stupid ideas?

[seabeyond]

54. the preachers. the southern baptist had a convention in the spring of 2004

and wrote it out for their preachers and sent out the memo. was the time they were buying theaters out to bring congregations to watch passion. i told my boys school, dont they dare show my boys any clips or any of that movie. there was talk they would. my kids were only 6 and 8

[Beausoir]

52. DU is just chock full of these amazing anecdotes lately.

I don't believe them.

[MirrorAshes]

82. its a viral smear that is pretty well documented

I'm not surprised to see it pop up in this sort of context at all.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

55. "No he doesn't, and whoever told you that has been lied to."

Truth works really well.

[Danger Mouse]

59. One of my students, about the same age, said Obama isn't an American.

I corrected him, politely.

[seabeyond]

62. i had a 13 yr old tell me he isnt as american as mccain cause mccain in war

i smiled, said.... your dad told you that huh? ya. so that means all of military is more american than all the rest of us.... does that work for you.

[truebrit71]

61. How to respond? John McCain used to bomb babies from his plane....

...and Sarah Palin likes to kill baby wolves....

[pnwmom]

79. You could say, "I wouldn't be voting for him if I thought for even a second

that he wants to kill babies."