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here_is_to_hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 01:30 PM
Original message
Bianchi info any one?
I picked this up at auction yesterday, full Campy, can't figure out the model or year...
Hmmm, any one know?
Trying to sell it locally as I paid so little for it, I know a bit about bikes but this one has me stumped!
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wU70gZ14AZk/Tcbg1AzI6hI/AAAAAAAABYg/6Hkg9kwkIwI/s1600/bike+011.JPG

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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. Does not have a "Lugged" frame so if Chrome-Moly is TIG welded and that means post 1980
The lever to change gears is well below the top frame, which means it is post 1972 construction (in 1972 the Consumer safety commission ordered all levers to be below the handlebars, prior to 1972 you had most ten speed with levers ABOVE the handlebars, that lead to injures and the change in placement).

Through it looks like some sort of Lugged mechanism at where the top tube joins the rear tubes (And where the seat post slides into the down post). Lugged frame was the preferred way to connect Chrome Moly frames prior to the adoption of TIG welding in the 1980s,

More on Lugged Frame:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugged_steel_frame_construction

Please note, while the Wikiepedia article mention that lug frame was the preferred way to make bicycle frame before about 1980s, it was NOT the way most bike frames were made. Conventional welding of high tension steel (the wonder material of 1900, had the Titanic been made of it, the Titanic would have survived the Iceberg, the Titanic steel was junk steel even by 1900 standards) was how most bikes were made, this produced a cheap easy to repair bike frame, but one that absorbed almost 70% of pedaling power in the frame. Chrome-Moly (the wonder material of the 1930s) provided a more rigid frame, which meant more peddling power went to the rear wheel and propelled the bike along. I remember in the 1970s seeing my two sister trying to keep up with my younger brother, he had a Chrome-Moly frame bike, they had the next step down Schwinn High Tension Steel. He just coasted by, as my sisters tried to stay ahead of him).

TIG Welding:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_tungsten_arc_welding

Otherwise the picture do NOT give me enough data. Is the frame Chrome-Moly? Many such frame are Marked Cr-Mo. It is clearly not an Aluminum Frame, for it appears like a Steel Frame. Aluminum is even stiffer then Chrome-Moly Steel do to the fact it is four times stronger then regular Steel of the same mass. The problem with Aluminum is that while it is four time stronger then steel per mass, its VOLUME is almost three times the Volume of Steel. Thus Aluminum foil appears "Weaker" then the same thickness of Steel, for when comparing the same level of thickness, steel has about twice the "Mass" of aluminum of the same thickness.

Do to this difference, Aluminum frames have to be almost twice as thick as Steel frame, this still means the Aluminum frame has less MASS then a Steel Frame, but the difference in Mass is made up in the stronger strength of the Aluminum per mass. The main reason no one used Aluminum frames prior to the 1980s was how do you attach wheels to the rear? At that point you have to made the Aluminum thin enough to permit the wheel axle to be attached to the frame. Almost all Wheels were designed around steel, thus the less mass per volume of Aluminum at that point made it the weak part of the bike (As it was on ALL bikes no matter the frame material). Steel "solved" the problem by having the greater strength per VOLUME. Chrome Moly Frame were very strong at that point and rarely broke do to the strength of Chrome-Moly Steel. High Tension steel "Solved" the problem by being easy to repair i.e. a quick weld at the the break. Aluminum frames could NOT use such a weld, for such a weld would weaken the Aluminum used in the frame AND weaken the other welds holding the frame together. No one could solve this problem till Cannondale found a solution in the late 1970s, Cannondale figured out a way to make a frame without the rear wheel attachment AND then a way to attach such an axle attachment point in an almost seamless manner. Thus if the rear attachment point broke, Cannondale could do a quick fix if and when the frame was returned to the factory. This made Aluminum frames possible for a life time warranty could be given without any worries that to many frame will brake and lead to bankruptcy. This invention made the Aluminum frame the wonder material of the 1980s (and like Chrome-Moly Steel one of the best material for bicycle frames).

By the mid 1990s, Cannondale's patent on its Aluminum frames expired and other entered the Aluminum frame field. China produced some Titanium frames (The wonder material of the 1990s, stiffer then even Aluminum, but with the thickness of Steel). After 2000, Trek started to use Carbon Fiber in their bicycles. Carbon Fiber permits an even stiffer frame, it is called the Wonder Material of the 21st Century.

While technically Aluminum, Titanium and Carbon Fiber are all better then Chrome-Moly Steel, the difference is less then the differences among bicyclists (unlike the difference between High Tension steel and Chrome-Moly steel, where the difference is striking). Thus, while I ride a Cannondale Aluminum bike, I would have no problems switching to a Chrome-Moly, Titanium or Carbon Fiber frame bicycle.

I go into details for this appears to be a high end "Reynolds" Chrome Moly Frame. "Reyonlds" is a French Company that make premium Chrome Moly tubes that are used by most bicycle makers. In fact if anything every happens to my Cannondale I am replacing it with a Chrome Moly Frame out of Wisconsin (I tried to stay "made in the USA", Cannondale was "Made in the USA" till 2009, when it was taken over and production shipped to Taiwan, in the same factory Schwinns have been made since at least 2000.

More on Reynolds tubes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_Cycle_Technology
http://www.reynoldstechnology.biz/

Reynolds chief Competitor is Columbus Tube out of Italy, your Bianchi frame may be Columbus instead of Reynolds tubing.

Columbus Tubing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus_tubing

My next bike will be a Waterford out of Wisconsin, with Chrome Moly Steel Frames:
http://waterfordbikes.com/now/home.php?newstype=home&navcommand=showall

Waterford are made in the last factory Schwinn built to make its high end bicycles, before Schwinn entered into bankruptcy (The condition of Schwinn was so bad, it was dissolved about 1992, and the name was sold to the present owner of the name, thus the Schwinn of today has nothing to do with the Schwinn of pre-1992). Waterford is actually run by one of the descendent's of the Schwinn that started Schwinn bicycles in the 1890s. It makes high end bicycles only.

While on the Waterford site (which has copies of Schwinn catalogs from 1900-1992) I found the 1973 Schwinn paramount, the top of the line Schwinn for 1973, and it had its levers at the same place as your Bianchi.

http://waterfordbikes.com/SchwinnCat/flschwinn_1971_1980/1973_10.html

On the next page, it shows the Sports Tourer, one of the very few (if NOT the only) non-lugged Chrome-Moly Frames made before 1980. These were NOT welded or lugged but Brazed. They were half the price of the Paramount, but almost as easy to peddle. In this discussion its levers are at handlebar height. Just a comment on lever position.

What is Brazing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazing

For more the the brazed Schwinn frames:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/schwinn-braze.html

Please note, while the 1973 Paramount had its levers in the same place as your Bianchi, the Bianchi appears a lot newer (for example it looks like it has a Clear Coat Paint Job, Clear Coats only came into common usage in the 1970s), The gearing looks to be more then five gears in the rear, thus implies it is post-1980 construction. Nine speeds have been the "Norm" for the last fifteen years, prior to that Eight Speeds. Various attempts have been made to go to Ten Speeds, but most have failed i.e. customers did not buy them OR they just did not work. Court the number of gears and we can then guess when the gears were first made. Now, the frame could be older, with new gears installed later, but it is a start on determining the age of this frame.
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here_is_to_hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I have it nailed down to a 1993 Cromor...
From the Race Division of Bianchi. The tubes are Extra EL Columbus, handbuilt frame, Chorus Grouppo from Campy. The fork barrel is lugged and stamped but every other joint is welded and filled.
Its a nice bike, very responsive but not my style- I tour on an older Cannondale with XTR. I found the bike at an auction for....90.00!
Came with a box of Time pedals, Shimano pedals and a full set of cycling attire, shoes, etc. The pedal set ups alone are worth a few hundred.
I sold it yesterday for 750.00 to a collector in Portland.
Its been a good week.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I love Bianchis
I bought a Bianchi Eros. One year later, I bought another Bianchi Eros for my girlfriend. Now she is my wife! What does that tell you?

Chorus Gruppo, very nice, at least you got to own it for a spell. Do you tour, as in overnight? I have done one organized tour and two self supported tours.
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