DEMOCRATS IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT I GOT TO SAY...THEN LOSE AGAIN.

[Justice Is Comin]

I'm high level pissed, and I'm saying it.


Pelosi, Rangel, Clinton you make castigating comments about a man who speaks the prevailing sentiments of the entire damn world and instead you’d rather sanctify the fart joking war criminal in our own oval office.

Then unbelievably other Democrats actually vote to confirm Fisher so all the Abramhoff connected criminals can quietly breathe easy now and go back to their corruption as usual. You helped put her in the Justice Department right where Gonzalez can control her and make sure she squashes all the ongoing investigations. Alito wasn’t enough for you after you sold the Supreme Court.

You have no cohesion of any kind on Iraq. Can't get it through your heads that 65% of the population of the United States want the soldiers out.

No, you'd rather not appear to cut and run like bush did from Afghanistan. Yeah that would appear wimpy on terror. Never mind that we’re losing kids every day and spending eleven million dollars an hour, and three quarters of the country wants us out. That gold plated mandate just eludes you.

You allow yourselves to be labeled and puppeteered by every slogan du jour the republicans roll out. You jump like rabbits. Hillary was ‘angry’. Oooo gotta react to that. Waving the white flag...oooo, gotta defend that. Weak on terror...ooo, act like we’re extremely nervous to deflect that. Nuclear option...ooo, quaking in our boots over that.

When are you going to set the fucking agenda? After we have no constitution left? When are we going to have republicans rushing to respond to our slogans?

We have to scrimp and scrape here on DU for what few good news headlines we can manage to find here every day. And we’ve got enough scandals and criminal cover ups and republican decimation of our government and lives, that our posts should be able to be literally plastered with green jumping smilies. If you only had the testosterone to get it in the news.

America is practically shoving the baton up your ass so you'll take it and run with it but no-o you're scattered like antelope running from a jaguar. The filibuster is locked in a suitcase and I guess you don’t have any idea where the key is for that.

Sometimes I have trouble telling if there aren’t moles in this Democratic party. You just want to play nice...kissey kissey and don't offend anybody and don't make waves, and Conyers you just forget all that war crime stuff, stay in your room and don't you say all those nasty things about bush--that's not our agenda. We don’t want people to think we want to throw bush out. No, that’s not our agenda either. Oh it isn’t? Fuck you.

If you think it’s not, you make my blood boil. These republicans are the the most backstabbing, felony committing, two faced bunch of pricks that ever shamed the floors of Congress. And bush is their queen bee. There are so many things we could be saying it would literally bring millions of people flying to our feet in applause. It just virtually boggles my mind. Fifty, sixty million Americans are begging for you to do it. And you would think this crisis election is no more important to some of you than a 4-H meeting.

Seventy million people didn't vote in the 04 presidential election. If you Democrats keep up with this mild mannered, my-good-friend, must not appear strident bullshit, seventy million people aren’t going to vote again and Diebold is going to steal the rest. You’ll be sitting in the bar election night crying in your martinis wondering how in the world could this happen again.

I'm telling you, this could be an electoral blowout so big, it could be record setting. The people are just rife with anger. It's only things like, thank God, the continuing poll results that keep me from going absolutely insane. It appears enough Americans have finally had enough to take things into their own hands and they’re going to grab the bull by the balls and throw these bastards out, despite what little reason you’re giving them to do it.

It's the American people that are showing the backbone, something a lot of you Democrats need to be getting serious lessons about. You sure aren’t the ones slamming your shoes on the podiums in Congress.

You're supposed to be Democrats!! Act like it. Bring back the spirit of that fire and brimstone we used to be known for. This is no time to be acting like you’re at some renaissance hippie love-in.

If you don’t start fighting the same way these pasty faced rich loving fuckers do , and soon , these polls are going to slide right into the shit hole and you're going to let these republican swamp dwellers do just what they did to Kerry. Again.

If you do it this time, I'm done!! That sound you hear will be my monitor hitting the wall. Bush is not going to put a hammer and sickle on my constitution.

If you don't know how to fucking lead this cause, get out of the way. We don't need you sitting on the hood of the car while your employers push this Goddamn thing up the hill.

[wakeme2008]

1. Kick and Nom

:)

[aikoaiko]

2. lol nice rant. nt

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Great rant!

And if you'll excuse an expression from the olden days when Democrats actually *did* something -- Right on!

[magellan]

4. Damn straight!

:applause:

[Totally Committed]

5. This post makes me wish I could Recommend it a thousand times,

instead of only once.

Justice Is Comin, this is an outstanding post, and it deserves to be on the front page. Thank you for voicing the truth with such passion and conviction. This is the EXACT message this Party needs to HEAR, and ACT ON.

Thank you!

TC

[calimary]

72. Me, too. Give me SPINE, or give me death.

K&R!

We do have to get tough, and ruthless, and mean, and dirty. We have to be willing to fight dirty and hit below the belt. Dirty tricks? YOU BET. Sneaky shit? Say the word! Unfortunately, it IS that kind of game. And if you don't play it that way, you are DOOMED. You're GUARANTEED to lose. And the first person who comes whining to me about how we can't stoop to their level because it makes us like them - well, I'm almost sick of saying this but I'll say it again: I WANT TO BE LIKE THEM!!! EXACTLY LIKE THEM!!! Because you know what they are? They're WINNERS. They WIN. They win ALL the ones that count, too, because they stop at nothing and they stoop as low as they have to. They'll do anything, say anything, pay anything, but it gets them into the winner's circle time after time. After WE run the table and WE own it all, THEN we can start improving the timbre and tone and ethics and morality of campaigns and political gamesmanship. But we can't do that until and unless we WIN. Hell, we can't do SQUAT until and unless we WIN.

Look, this is politics. It's been dirty since before kkkarl rove - or his parents AND grandparents climbed out of the slime. It has always been thus. If you're in it, and assuming you're in it to win, that is unfortunately how the game is played. If you want to be virtuous and keep your karma pure, go work against land mines or world hunger.

If you insist on taking the high road, make sure you have a parachute, because it takes YOU straight over a cliff.

[TheCowsCameHome]

6. I wish I had written this post........nice job!

[RevCheesehead]

7. One of the best rants I've ever read on DU!!

:applause:

Thank you for speaking on our behalf!! :patriot:

[katinmn]

8. Agree.

[Cobalt Violet]

9. Cant't argue with that.

:kick::applause: :applause: :applause: :kick:

[riona]

10. I'll second that

:dem: :patriot: :dem:

[demnan]

11. And not only that

We should bottle what you had in your coffee this morning, Justice Is Comin.

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

12. They've become a compliant...

...weak sister, subsidiary of the GOP---they're about the only good thing the GOP has left going for it. Sad state of affairs.

[JRob]

162. ...who pay homage to the same corporate god...

That's why the wont, don't push the envelope. This thread needs to be forwarded to all Dem Senators, Congressman and Opponants...

[KalicoKitty]

13. Great Post!

:yourock:

:kick:

[Imagevision]

183. "Ships leaving Norfolk to go and bomb iran" whoo, get the duct tape!!

[wyldwolf]

14. yeah... right.

Pelosi, Rangel, Clinton you make castigating comments about a man who speaks the prevailing sentiments of the entire damn world and instead you’d rather sanctify the fart joking war criminal in our own oval office.



As you can see by the graph above, from a Gallup poll last summer, shows Clinton with an astronomical approval rating among Democrats. I feel safe in saying his approval dwarfs that of Hugo "Pendejo" Chavez among Democrats. Further, Clinton is greeted like a rock star all over the world.

I doubt very seriously "the entire damn world" would take Chavez and his comments over William Jefferson Clinton. Deal with it. And when you can find any evidence to the contrary beyond your clique of "progressives," let me know.

Further, to believe that the Democrats will lose based on not supporting a Venezualen thug is nothing but a leftist daydream.

And before you even get started, don't accuse me of defending Bush for anything he has done. I know that would be the easiest rhetorical route for you. Try to see the difference.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

18. I think the post was about MUCH MORE than...

that ONE sentence.

[wyldwolf]

21. a lot of words to make one point

... that the Democrats will lose if they take Rangel's, Pelosi's, and Clinton's side over that of Chavez.

The point could have been made just like that.

Now - you don't really believe that, do you?

[magellan]

25. That isn't what the OP said at all

The finer point is being missed, which is this: They speak out to America about one thing that makes not a bit of difference but are silent about things that matter very much.

[wyldwolf]

27. I quote:

DEMOCRATS IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT I GOT TO SAY...THEN LOSE AGAIN.
I'm high level pissed, and I'm saying it. Pelosi, Rangel, Clinton you make castigating comments about a man who speaks the prevailing sentiments of the entire damn world and instead you’d rather sanctify the fart joking war criminal in our own oval office... If you don't know how to fucking lead this cause, get out of the way. We don't need you sitting on the hood of the car while your employers push this Goddamn thing up the hill.

The poster is obviously upset that Chavez has been "insulted."

The rest is just pure rhetorical nonsense from people who don't understand the lack of coverage and power the minority party has.

[magellan]

28. Right

Why don't they arrange to appear on Countdown and explain themselves to everyone, then? Do you think Keith would turn them away?

Screw lack of power. That doesn't deprive them of their principles, if they have any left.

I'm tired of the pity party for the Democratic Leadership. They're not helpless. They have power and influence enough to waste time excoriating Chavez, they have power and influence enough to express the proper outrage over torture...if they so choose.

[wyldwolf]

31. why do you believe they need to explain themselves to anyone?

[magellan]

34. They don't

They can continue to be silent and hope the American voting public telepathically imbibes that they're actually against torture of any kind and are disgusted by Bush**'s move to legalize it.

At least they won't have to send out a thought-wave on the Chavez thing. That's been covered.

[wyldwolf]

40. They haven't been silent

I would support a moratorium on spending on detention facilities in Cuba and Iraq pending an independent investigation of the torture of prisoners by U.S. soldiers. The White House counsel set the tone for the use of harsh interrogation methods by proposing a Presidential decision that captured members of the Taliban were not protected under the Geneva Convention on treatment of prisoners of war. Not one administration official--including the White House counsel who is now Attorney General has been called to account. - - Charles Rangel

"We must send a clear message to the world that torture is not consistent with American values." -- Nancy Pelosi

[magellan]

44. Both quotes are from last year

...not this past week. I'm asking what they've said to the American people in response to Bush**'s speech last Friday.

[wyldwolf]

47. First they've been silent, now what they've said isn't timely enough

Perhaps they didn't emphasize the correct words, either?

[SaveOurDemocracy]

49. It may have been meaningful...

... if they emphatically reiterated those sentiments in response to the Bush rose garden rant.

[magellan]

56. Thank you!

See my post #27, wyldwolf.

Welcome to DU, SaveOurDemocracy! :hi:

[SaveOurDemocracy]

59. Thanks ;o)

:toast:

[magellan]

55. If you'd be so kind as to read my posts

...I've explicitly been drawing a comparison between the willingness to slag off Chavez this week while remaining silent since Bush**'s pro-torture tantrum last Friday. Explain it if you can rather than trying to change the context of what I said.

[brentspeak]

89. I read your posts

And if you had read the news properly, you would have seen that the Democrats wisely chose to stay out of the brawl that was initiated between Bush and the GOP. Now Bush's torture proposals, while not completely discarded, are at least more watered-down than they were before. Had the Democrats joined the GOP congress in condemning Bush' proposals, the GOP would not have fought nearly as hard against Bush to water down the torture proposals. They would have reluctantantly been forced to back Bush to a degree, and the proposals would never have been modified.

You do care about minimizing or getting rid of the torture proposals, don't you?

[specimenfred1984]

152. No Mention of Torture in the Rant, Hmnnnnnnnnnnn....

What's the biggest current issue right now? Torture.

Why would some great big passionate rant exclude the biggest news story of the day?

[ldf]

164. nice.

apparently the democrats wisely choose to stay out of just about everything.

[magellan]

191. The desire to make lemonade out of lemons

...that's what I see. Excuse every inaction on the part of the Dems. They didn't act, they didn't say anything, because it was part of their plan. I've been listening to this for two years, since I joined DU. Heck, I even believed it and said the same at first.

"No, no. This is all part of another clever plan."

Well here's what I make of all their clever plans now. They've allowed -- and in some cases enabled -- the Repubs to chip away at our democracy for five years without raising a stink. And the few that did try to speak out were isolated or foiled.

If you ever wonder why it seems that too many Americans are going along with the Republican demolition of our Constitution and the liberties and rights it protects, it isn't just because the barking Republican leadership gets all the attention.

It's because the other side of the aisle hasn't raised its voice in chorus to challenge them.

[brentspeak]

80. Thanks, wyldwolf

Someone has to be the rational one on this board. The Chavez supporters don't seem to understand that Hugo Chavez is not a member of the Democratic party, let alone a U.S. citizen.

[Skidmore]

90. This has nothing to do with supporting or not supporting Chavez.

That is a bunch of BS. It has to do with what Dem elected officials say and don't say and the time they pick to say or not say those things. It also has to do with how they vote or don't vote on legislation and when they choose to vote or not vote. I understand perfectly what the OP is saying, and those comments are spot on. This is exactly how the Dems will lose the base. If the Democratic Party wants to become the Republican Party then just change parties and don't waste our time. I want the party of FDR, LBJ, and JFK. I'm heartsick over a party that tries to play footsy with Reagan Dems, who were disloyal to begin with. T

[brentspeak]

98. Ok, so what exactly did "the Democrats" fail to say, do, or don't do?

What legislation has been passed that the Democrats had the power to stop? Can you be specific?

[Skidmore]

99. Whether or not they have the "power to stop" legislation is not the same

thing as taking a stand with their votes, or just being there to vote. It is the principle of the thing. The one word I loathe most now from the lips of elected Dem officials is "bipartisan" because you know that it is an excuse for some or most of them giving their imprimateur to bad R policies.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

93. Define 'rational' please.

The only people I see bringing up Chavez, in this thread ... over and over ... are those few who want to make this rant about that ONE issue. It was ONE fkn sentence!!

I think you're confused about who's being 'rational'.

[stepnw1f]

170. Welcome to DU

and you are right on for noticing it too.

[LibraLiz1973]

179. Your kidding.... right?

Hell yes they need to explain themselves. These are ELECTED officials- NOT dictators.
What an ignorant question.


If you feel that we have no right to ask politicians to explain themselves, why are you even interested in politics?
Just swallow whatever they feel like shovelling your way as it comes. With that kind of attitude I have to ask why
you care if Bush is president? By your logic he should be able to do whatever he wants without explanation

[Maraya1969]

88. Have you ever had a family member or friend stab you in the back

by actively or passively supporting someone who has hurt you? That is what I am reading in the OP and that is exactly how I feel. bush is a madman who is responsible for untold number of deaths. He is also responsible for a great deal more suffering by not allocating federal money for stem cell research.

Think about a person with severe chronic asthma who suffers daily trying to just breathe. What if that person's family agreed either actively or passively with bush's blocking of federal funds that could, (and probably will someday) relieve his suffering? What response besides "damn you evil man" and "I'm going to try everything I can to get you out so my relative may know what it is like to not have to fight for every breath of air he breathes," is appropriate?


A relative of mine was just diagnosed with breast cancer. I wonder how it would be different had bush not stopped federal funding for stem cell research 5 years ago? 5 years is a LONG TIME in science and medicine. I wonder if the whole family would not have to be terrified at this point because of 5 years of lost research.

In my opinion there is no excuse to excuse this man - ever. Not when one member of my family still suffers.

That is what Clinton and Pelosi just did. They just excused this man again. This man who has made my family suffer is being excuse by someone who is supposed to be my supporter.

That is the problem.

[robbedvoter]

96. OP is upset WE WERE INSULTED, not Chavez

"The poster is obviously upset that Chavez has been "insulted."
This is the most disingenuous reading I could imagine. It's not about Chavez's joke at the UN, it's about US being a joke for them.
It's about US being unrepresented by clowns who try to appease bullies rather than be the opposition.
Are they going to lose? No, they won for the last 8 years I can think of. But we'll be robbed again - so maybe the whole diascussion is moot. But relevant.

[JRob]

165. was that a joke?

I believe Bush IS the Devil. I told my wife that a year ago.:)

[LibraLiz1973]

178. That wasnt the OP point at all... but u are of course entitled to that op.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

26. Is that really ...

... all you saw in that post? I think that was just one of a lonnnnnnnnnnnnng list of issues noted.

[wyldwolf]

29. and look at the replies it gets

Post 24: THey are all on the same side. Against us.

Pity the poor persecuted "progressives."

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Raksha]

147. Well, it sure looks like they are all on the same side--against us.

I will remember your user name, wyldwolf, and discount anything you have to say from now on. ANYONE who posts a line like "Pity the poor persecuted progressives" on a Democratic board gets no respect from me. Go directly to hell. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.

[JRob]

166. is there even a debate on that?!

Look at the legislation that's been passed with bipartisan support just over the last 2 years. The shit that slides... Come on people!

If we want to get anything done we need to exert leverage on the corporate masters.

[LibraLiz1973]

180. It certainly sounds like a Repub smackdown

doesn't it

[DrBlix]

110. Alice Fisher Nomination

What's next are they going to allow Bolton to remain at the UN by nominating him also?
===
Then unbelievably other Democrats actually vote to confirm Fisher so all the Abramhoff connected criminals can quietly breathe easy now and go back to their corruption as usual. You helped put her in the Justice Department right where Gonzalez can control her and make sure she squashes all the ongoing investigations. Alito wasn't enough for you after you sold the Supreme Court.

[JRob]

163. truly...

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stepnw1f]

83. no shit

:puke:

[Bridget Burke]

104. Why did Pelosi have to call Chavez a "thug"?

A word straight out of the Right Wing Dictionary. Surely, she could have said she considered the word "Devil" impolite. But Chavez is an elected leader who's already faced an overthrow attempt supported by Bush & his cronies.

Most people around the world--including quite a few Americans, do feel that Bush is taking us to Hell in a Handbasket. His UN speech was hardly a masterpiece of statesmanship & diplomacy.

I don't think he's the Devil--who is purportedly a man of Wealth & Taste.

[lyonn]

157. Pelosi' use of the repub. word "thug" was dumb

Simply put, she has a better vocabulary. Dems are good at "I agree, but...." Why they Ever agree with a repub while being debated in public is utterly stupid.

yes, bush was the bully of the UN.

Dems don't speak out on way too many issues- so now they choose Chevez?

Agree with OP, we are doomed to lose again if our politicians are the "me too" crowd. Don't they get it? It's like they think they are strategically smarter than the repubs Go figure, after you have lost for 10 years

[Raksha]

139. I don't know if "the entire damn world" would take Chavez

and his remarks over Clinton's response, but I'd be willing to bet a lot of them would, and I know good and damn well *I* would!

[doctor_garth]

214. the world IS with Chavez

not with Clinton. The whole world sees Clinton, Bush or Hillary as the same.

Go listen to Chavez's speech again hear the applause, the joy.

Chavez was indeed speaking for billions, not for Bush-enabling, play-it-safe, fence-sitting Democrats like Clinton, Hillary or you.

[mmonk]

15. Right now, our party is in an appeasement mode

because that's how they feel they can get elected. This is the wrong time in history for this. Either that or the Greens are right in their accusations.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

16. BRAVO!!!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:


I haven't posted enough to 'recommend' ... so this is the best I can do. I think, with your permission, this post should be copied and sent to all Democratic Congress Members. I think we should flood their offices with it!!

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

17. Dem leadership captured by Mr. Fish...

[KurtNYC]

19. I too wonder just WTF is wrong with the Democratic party leadership

They should be hammering away right now at their opponents. Janine Pirro, Katherine Harris and dozens of other locals GOP candidates are like bad jokes.

What is it going to take to light a fire under the ass of every incumbant Democrat? They act like spectators to their own elections. I'm still wondering why Michael Moore (not a Democrat btw) was the only one to make an issue out of Bush's TANG AWOL in 2004? They ran like rabbits from the issue which allowed the Swift Boat Truth-sinkers to take the offensive....

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

[acmejack]

20. Right on, right on, right on!

Apparently the DLC thinks the this is the perfect strategy, judging from their mouthpiece's response here. Other than their usual bullshit, which has proven to be a LOSING strategy over the last three elections. Clinton is not GOD!

The OP has elucidated clearly what is on the majority's minds & I couldn't agree more. Recommended heartily.

[independentpiney]

22. Excellent rant- thank you!

You've expressed everything I've been feeling of late as i watch Dem leaders squandering so many opportunities.

[xchrom]

23. k&r

[elehhhhna]

24. THey are all on the same side. Against us.

[wiggs]

63. My same conclusion. Only I wouldn't say "all", just most.

For me, this is one of the more disappointing, sad outcomes of the last 6 years, this realization.

[elehhhhna]

70. deal. 90%?

[wiggs]

101. I'm down with 90%. nt

[SmokingJacket]

30. You took the words right out of my mouth. Rec'd. nt

[Snivi Yllom]

32. the prevailing sentiment of the entire damn world was Hugo was out of line

If he wants to make these kinds of remarks he can do it at home or anywhere else. But it's not appropriate or respectuful to unlease that garbage at the UN at the UN podium.

As the leader of Venezuela, his comments reflects poorly on the entire population of Venezuela. You can be a fiery leader with passion, but 4rd grade level insults do nothing to advance your cause or the people you represent.

I am happy democrats like rangel and Pelosi are standing up and voicing their outrage at poor leadership. The UN and the world deserves better.

Judging from your rant, I am assuming you would wish democrats to addopt Hugo chavez type language as a winning strategy. That would be a gargantuan mistake.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

35. "the prevailing sentiment of the entire damn world...

...was Hugo was out of line."

Yeah right, that must be what all the applause was about.

[Toots]

42. Umm and the strategy they've been using has been ever so effective right??

I say tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may. IMO Chavez did just that although the UN may not have been the right place. Then again if the entire world is not made to hear the outcries then they may get the idea all is well and IMO all is definitely not well and the world needs to hear about it..

[Lydia Leftcoast]

67. Whatever your opinion of Chavez, I want to see them muster the

same outrage at TORTURE, i.e. inflicting deliberate pain on real human beings, who may or may not be guilty of the crimes they are accused of, as they do at the passing words of a visiting foreign leader.

I think the Dem leaders have either been threatened or blackmailed into sucking up to the Bush. Either that, or they are completely TONE DEAF about how to appeal to the electorate.

Geez, doesn't Bush have enough REPUBLICANITE defenders?

[yowzayowzayowza]

122. "garbage at the UN at the UN podium."

Doesn't that describe * admin in the run up to Iraq?

[robbedvoter]

148. That's why he made Chomsky a best seller over night?

Whatever some limp politician is declaring, people agree with Chavez. See Amazon sales of the book he held up!

[stepnw1f]

169. "prevailing sentiment of the entire damn world" actually HATES Bush

sorry to break the bad news for ya.

[HardRocker05]

33. with you til the testosterone; then i thought, just another pretender with

without a clue. Honey, it doesn't take any testosterone or balls to know how messed up the present administration is or to stand up to them; if anything, that's what got us into the disasterous quagmire we're in now. And it's not "just an expression," unless "mighty white of you" is just an expression too. Sheesh, you want to win in November? try not insulting 50+% of the voters.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

39. I'm a woman ...

... and didn't take that 'literally' ... so I didn't, and still don't, find it offensive.


It's amusing to me how people take issue with ONE point, or one WORD in this case, at the expense of the entire piece. This is why the Dems are so easily defeated, IMHO. They get so mired down in narrowly focused BS, they show up after the battle's been lost.

[HardRocker05]

46. Well, that's mighty white of you. btw, don't take that literally... you k

know, don't get all focussed on one little issue. Look, we are trained in this society to overlook exactly these type of anti-woman insults, and many of us have been well trained. But i'll bet money that *you* wouldn't overlook a similar anti-black, ant-muslim, anti-poor, etc. insult, or even if you decided to let it slide, you would harbor suspicions about the person who said it being some kind of latent bigot. Bottom line is, statements about balls, testosterone, "you're the man," etc. are totally unnecessary, wrong-headed, and an indication of a fundamental disrespect for anything considered female.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

69. As I said ....

antagonizing and attacking each other over personal ideologies is a losing proposition.

[Touchdown]

105. You go Girl!

Oops! That was a sexist expression. Sorry to demean all them men in this thread.:evilgrin:

[HardRocker05]

134. That was sexist? How did that demean men? Now if you said that the proble

problem with the dems was that they needed to get some ovaries (and meant it seriously, which of course you wouldn't) that would be sexist. The very fact that such an expression would be considered absurd and is never, ever used might be an indication that there is a grain of truth to what i'm saying. But then you knew that.

[Touchdown]

149. How is it sexist that men have balls?

Men have balls. We were born with them. We have no control over the fact that we're born with them. They itch, we scratch. Using low hangers as a euphamism for bravery or directness does not demean women, no matter how much you propigandize to make people think it does. Get over it!

I bet you think gay porn is discrimination against women, because there's no naked women in them.:eyes:

[omega minimo]

160. Wrong

"Using low hangers as a euphamism for bravery or directness does demean women, no matter how much you propigandize to make people think it doesn't."

[lonestarnot]

36. Get off the car CATS! sssssssssssssssss!

[helderheid]

37. most righteous rant

:applause:

[EnviroBat]

38. The RePigs are certainly energizing their nutjob base.

When the hell are you pussy-ass, pacifist Democrats going to stand up and do the same. Give it a try, it would make history!

[wyldwolf]

41. and places like DU are certainly energizing ours with rants like the OP

[Generic Other]

43. You tell them!

And shout loud and clear so they can hear you all the way to the halls of Congress.

[emald]

45. totally agree with your rant

it boils my blood that the dims are so unfailinly supportive of bushit. How many realize that two democrats couldn't be bothered to vote against the torture bill because of a press confrence? Fucking pols are killing us. Throw all the bums out. I am now an independant, never again a democrat. No more money for the dims. No more support. Now I'm an american, independant, for no personality, only supportive of the constitution, something which most pols don't seem to have any respect for.
The democrats are enabling the destruction of our constitution.

[oc2002]

48. how many times will this post be recomended but never make it to the front

page?

I was thinking the same thing for days as the OP, and I feel the Democratic party is corrupt and is just trying to get into power so they can just get more money for thier own cronies.

Are we just being played for a bunch of fools?

[Moochy]

197. It's anti-stickied

Think about it....

Greatest page? sure but front page? Hmm not so much.

[paulk]

50. from your rant, re: Democrats -

"When are you going to set the fucking agenda?"

Well, the Democrats are going to set the agenda when they take back the Congress this November... something I hope you will spend at least as much time working toward as you spent writing this pile of horseshit. Less than two months til the election!

51 recommendations so far here on "Let's trash Democrats Underground""


What else is new?

[wyldwolf]

51. it is retaliation for Democrats trashing Venezuelan thugs

[Lydia Leftcoast]

68. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe they deserve to be

trashed in this instance?

[paulk]

71. actually - I think the DUers that are trashing Pelosi and

Rangel etc. - for not standing with a guy (Chavez) who has been running around embracing (often literally) the leaders of some of the most repressive governments on the planet (Iran, Syria, Belarus, Cuba, etc), not to mention making nice with Kim Il Jong, are, at best, politically naive.


Less than two months til the election - and DU spends it's time ranting and raving about how much the Democrats suck.


ed for sp.

[Roxy66]

73. So we shouldnt light a fire under their asses?

I think they need a little cattle prod action!!!

[paulk]

95. you really think trashing someone gets them on your side?

Most people, politicians included, respond to encouragement, not insults.

The OP's rant here doesn't light a fire - the only purpose it serves is to make the poster feel good about himself/herself, "I really told them"....


If you really want to "light a fire", you'll work toward getting the Republicans out of control of Congress - and giving that control to the Democrats - then, if the Democrats don't live up to your expectations you'd be justified in criticizing them.

[snappyturtle]

118. "Trashing"?......maybe harsh criticism but I agree with the OP:

The Democratic Party needs to WAKE up. I'm glad Chavez spoke at the U.N. We know with complete certainty what he believes and we had better start listening whether we (agree or disagree) to other countries since this administration is on such a 'global' track. I'll be damned if I have to wait until the Democrats are elected to be justified in criticizing them! Sorry.

[paulk]

125. we have different definitions of criticism, I guess

Criticism can be a valuable tool when it's grounded in an objective logic and rationality. I found the OP's rant to be based far more on such a subjective view of reality that I had a hard time seeing it as anything more than a rant.

[LibraLiz1973]

182. Well the Repub Hacks are certainly not encouraging them

but many "in power" dems are doing their bidding just fine

[Lydia Leftcoast]

113. No, not for "not standing with him," but

for criticizing him on national TV when they can't haul their butts onto those same shows to criticize TORTURE.

They're going after the gnat (Chavez) that is buzzing around the rabid dogs (the Bush administration) who are attacking THEM.

[paulk]

123. Many, many Democrats have publically criticized the Bush

administration's torture policies.

So, I assume your talking about the bill Bush is currently trying to get through the Senate...

This is more of the political naitivity I was talking about - why weigh in on this while the Republicans are fighting amongst themselves over it? Why take the spotlight off the Republican disagreement? It's much smarter, politically, to wait and see what the compromise is before weighing in.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

124. Duh, to make it clear to the public that the Dems actually

have an opinion on this matter.

Statements made in the past might as well have been made in the 1800s for all the public remembers. They need to hammer this subject, because it's outrageous that the Republicans are even CONSIDERING legalizing torture.

[Roxy66]

128. Amen!

[paulk]

131. then that's the public's fault, not the Democrats

you know, I get the feeling that for some there is nothing that the Democrats can do that will serve. They need someone to blame, and the Democrats make the easiest target, I suppose.


Also - consider that the Democrats may not want this debate to use up all the oxygen, as it were. The two most important issues that the public is focused on right now - 7 weeks before the election - are Iraq and the economy... in many ways this is a Republican engineered distraction. In fact, this whole thing was meant to be used as a campaign issue against Democrats, but it's kind of blown up in the Bush junta's face, since so many Republicans objected to it.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

132. You're talking about tactics, and I'm talking about the Bill of Rights

If we lose the Bill of Rights, elections will be irrelevant.

[paulk]

140. the Supreme Court still has the final say

the whole reason this came up is because the Supremes rejected Bush's current policy as unconstitutional.

this isn't over.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

143. This doesn't mean the Democrats can't speak up

and with the current composition of the Supreme Court (or with another liberal replaced by a fascist), you cannot count on them.

[Straight Shooter]

52. Righteous anger rules the day!

I'm not talking about that self-righteous bloviating faux outrage from the wingnuts and the GOP. I mean that genuine had-it-up-to-the-eyeballs kind of righteous anger because we see everything that has taken 200-plus years to build being destroyed before our very eyes, at the hands of a misanthrope and his gang of cronies.

Maybe it takes a village to raise a child, but it takes a GOP-majority Congress to demolish that village and the dreams of that child.

Great rant, especially that last line: "We don't need you sitting on the hood of the car while your employers push this g'damn thing up the hill."

Bravo! :patriot:

[Joanne98]

53. Every election year they CAVE! We need new leaders!

[Nimrod2005]

57. Agreed....nt

[Lena inRI]

54. You said it all, Justice. . .

but can't say these Dunderhead Dems are REALLY hearing us. . .maybe Harkin and Dean though he is muzzled by his party position. . .because, ya see, it's a Billionaire's Club, these upper echelon politicians, schmoozing at the conferences (i.e. Clinton Conference http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/09/14/D8K50AA80.html). . .just one big happy family. . .

there is no opposition because they are all Billionaire Buddies.

We're on our own. . . :mad:

[Cocoa]

58. this thread is overrated

it seems like the same old crap to me, with even less substance than usual. :shrug:

[Tigermoose]

60. K & R. Th e Corporate Elites have our government by the balls.

The Democratic Party all too often would rather play it safe than rock the boat. And when they depend on Corporate cash to fund their campaigns, the results are predictably non-populist.

Chavez sounds like he is actually, you know, one of the people. We are so used to "leadership" being defined as playing nicey-nice and not rocking the boat, that many of us so-called populists are scared when we see a man that acts on what we idealize.

Sometimes you have got to go for the knockout, rather than hoping thousands of tiny jabs will land you a decision by an impartial judge.

[Kablooie]

61. YES GODDAMN IT YES GODDAMN IT YES GODDAMN IT YES!!

[shadowknows69]

64. Excellent

Spot on. I wish you could run this in every newspaper in the US.

[Roxy66]

65. I turned on the T.V. this morning hoping to see ANY DEM....

on the morning shows yelling about the "Torture bill" and all I saw was John Mccain spewing how wonderful he is for working with Bush....WHERE ARE THE DEMOCRATS!!!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

66. I've suspected for years that the Dems are being sabotaged from within,

ever since the DLC was founded and began supporting Reagan's insane military build-up and helping him quash social programs.

Threats and blackmail could be at work, too. I wonder how many members of Congress get plain brown envelopes full of incriminating photos or receive credible threats against themselves or their families.

Note that the Dems wiith the most spine tend to be the ones who don't have any power or prestige in Congress.

[laundry_queen]

186. That is what I have been thinking for at least this last year.

I'm not usually one to put on the tin foil, but I'm beginning to suspect the Dems are being infiltrated, blackmailed and threatened into total and complete uselessness. They cannot possibly be that insulated and shortsighted, could they?

[YOY]

74. Dead On Right

100%

[Roxy66]

75. This needs forwarded to the DNC asap.

They say they read the blogs, but I think we should all start sending them theads from this forum

[mom cat]

76. Ditto!

:toast:

[brentspeak]

77. Since when are our Democrats supposed to be loyal to Hugo Chavez?

They're loyal to this country, not to the president of another nation. Even Howard Dean, exactly the kind of "backbone" Democrat you claim to crave, has spoken out against Hugo Chavez. And the vast majority of Democratic rank-and-file could care less about supporting Chavez; they care about supporting the issues relevant to their lives here in America.

Your post makes absolutely no sense.

[Roxy66]

79. What don't you get? n/t

[Bluebear]

81. Which part is incoherent to you? nt

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

87. Did you actually read the entire post? ...

... or stop after the first paragraph?


Did any of those other issues look relevant???


Some people seem to want to define this post exclusively on that opening remark. Perhaps, if you look at it as "the straw that broke the camel's back" for this poster, Justice Is Comin, and follow him/her through all the rest of the frustrations and disappointments that many of us seem to share ... you'll have a better understanding of why this post has struck a chord with so many.

[brentspeak]

97. In answer to your snide question: Yes, I did.

And the poster's logical fallacies, such as condemning the entire Democratic party because six Democrats voted to confirm Alice Fisher, even though she was going to be voted in due to Republican votes, anyway, are just a lame way to incite people against the Democrats. How come he didn't mention that 35 Democrats voted against Fisher's nomination? Because if he did, it wouldn't make the Democrats look as wimpy as he's trying to convey.

By the way, he didn't seem to notice this:

Kerry urges Democrats to fight back

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060922/ap_on_el_ge/kerry_swift_boats

[SaveOurDemocracy]

100. In a fund-raising letter????

Pretty limited audience, doncha think? That was a risky move on Kerry's part, huh?


TFF ... I've been characterized as 'snide' by someone who posted THIS??

<[[ brentspeak (1000+ posts) Fri Sep-22-06 12:31 PM Response to Reply #47 [br />

80. Thanks, wyldwolf
Someone has to be the rational one on this board. The Chavez supporters don't seem to understand that Hugo Chavez is not a member of the Democratic party, let alone a U.S. citizen. ]]]


pffffffffffffft ... gimme a break.

[Moochy]

193. I thought he was in that camp

"Someone has to be the rational one on this board."

Enter "the adults". Another "father knows best" post.

Rational? hardly.

[Individualist]

78. Bravo!

The "go along to get along" attitude of far too many dems is enabling the flushing of democracy down the crapper. This is a time in our nation's history to take a strong stand against tyranny, "play nice" be damned!!

[Skidmore]

82. Hallelujah! and K&R

[stepnw1f]

84. Kick and Nominated!

Thank you for saying this! You said it well.

[Initech]

86. Great rant - I'm pissed as hell too.

I will not sit idly by while my country gets turned into a giant commercial consumerism cess pool. And with that smirking dumbass in the top seat with the democrats doing nothing to censure or make sure his powers are limited, well, that just sucks. If they dont stop letting the republicans walk all over them, well, maybe we just dont deserve to take back either house. How can we expect to start impeachment investigations if they cant do shit, even the slightest shit like stop the torture bill from passing? I'd be all in favor of voting out every incumbent, especially those that voted for the torture bill and for the Iraq War, I'd send them packing.

[Warren DeMontague]

91. No, see, we're gonna WIN this time by "playing nice!"

Americans WANT a party that is TOTALLY INCAPABLE of responding to the worst, most vicious kind of slime campaigns Karl Rove can dream up. We're the "party of Al Qaeda?" Whatever you say, sir- You're our president!

Oh, and with our time-honored, foolproof plan of courting "values voters" by chucking gays, pro-choicers, atheists and believers in the separation of church & state overboard, we're just a few watered-down Republican proposals and pandering, Jesus-laden religious right platitudes away from TOTAL VICTORY!

And by the way...

:sarcasm:

[robbedvoter]

94. K&R But: the only thing they did to kerry was STEAL it from him

With that one discordant note, everything else is just right!

[JNelson6563]

102. Best Rant Ever.

Let's take out a full page ad in the Times or WP. :toast:

[midnight]

103. Moles they very well might be......

Dem or Rep. the whole lot of them have not done what they were sworn into office to do. Up hold the constitution.

[cyberpj]

106. delete/dupe.

[cyberpj]

107. good one. Anyone here interested in creating one like it to be sent

and signed by all of us here at DU and then sent to all Dem congresscritters, plus DNC and DLC?

I think that's what all top Dem bloggers should be doing. We're just now getting their attention, perhaps it would do some good?

pj

[SaveOurDemocracy]

109. I'd sign it ...

in a heartbeat.

[Roxy66]

111. Me Too!!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

119. Me, too!

And with my real name, which is not, as you may have guessed, "Lydia Leftcoast." :-)

[Cronus Protagonist]

108. AWESOME! I can't think of anything to add to that, other than...

Run for office, will ya? I'll back you.

:)

[NanceGreggs]

112. Beyond BRILLIANT!!!

:applause: :woohoo: :applause: :woohoo: :applause:

[SaveOurDemocracy]

115. ^^^ From one who knows brilliant!!

:woohoo: :yourock: :woohoo:

[mike_c]

114. right ON!

Kicked and recommended-- excellent rant!

[Vidar]

116. Bravo! K&R.

[Joanne98]

117. Let me be number 125! Bravo! EXACTLY how I feel!

[G_j]

120. great rant

yup!!

[omega minimo]

121. Balls are not the answer

Ever ask ourselves what are they really afraid of?

[omega minimo]

144. Good question. Who's got the balls to answer it?

:bounce:

[QuestionAll...]

126. right on! can I buy you a beer? k&r. nt

[Porcupine]

127. Thank you. I'm tired of spineless representatives. n/t

.

[OzarkDem]

129. Yawn

[Moochy]

196. Wake up!

Someone is crossing the bridge!!

[jannyk]

130. I'm with you all the way! nt

[lostnotforgotten]

133. Been Saying Similar For Years

And all it gets me is castigation here and elsewhere.

[me b zola]

135. Rightious rant!

:applause:



Pssst...Justice Is Comin :yourock:

[WilliamPitt]

136. "When are you going to set the fucking agenda?"

When *you* vote Democratic in November and put them back in the majority.

The minority does not control the agenda. At all. The minority can't even get a hearing room.

Politics 101.

[nini]

138. shhhhh.. reality checks might make their heads explode

I am simply amazed how many people do not get how politics/govt actually works.

[omega minimo]

146. Although Cong. Conyers has continued acting as if the system is working

setting an agenda, documenting facts, sending letters, holding (basement) hearings, giving hope.........

Without him, no DSM hearings, no Cindy Sheehan, no Symbolman video starring Joe Wilson, Cindy Sheehan, Ray McGovern. Watching that, there was a definite sense they were "acting as if the system is working..." with great dignity and respect for the (battered and bloodied) system.

We need more actions like his. He is working for history and for the nation, no matter how the system has been hijacked currently.

:thumbsup:

[doctor_garth]

212. more excuses, Mr. Pitt?

Dems can still filibuster and Dems can still make a lot of noise. They do neither. Don't ask for votes, show some SPINE first.

[EnfantTerrible]

221. Helps to have an agenda defined

So the electorate knows exactly what it's supposed to be supporting. It wouldn't hurt it the voting record of our elected officials reflected some commitment to the lip service they pay. 98-0 vote support for continuing an illegal and immoral war. Where were the Dems? Not even a symbolic opposition. You ask for too much on faith, IMO.

[Raksha]

137. Great rant! I'm thinking about printing it out

and sending a copy to Rangel and Pelosi, four-letter words and all!

[Individualist]

141. 155 recommendations as of 4:15

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:, etc.

[mdmc]

142. Dem basher!

Rant on Bro! :kick:R

[robbedvoter]

145. Dems never lost - were robbed (past 3 elections). But, you're right!

The caving in is unacceptable and does turn potential voters off.

[specimenfred1984]

150. TORTURE not mentioned once in your rant

Why not?

[redacted]

151. K&R. Has Pelosi LOST HER MIND?

[lvx35]

156. I was shocked too...

I mean, if she wanted to knock Chavez, all she had to say is "Bush is so bad he gives THIS crazy guy credibility!" but her comment sided with Bush?!

[butterfly77]

153. You said it better than I ....

[Nederland]

154. Shut the fuck up

...and run for office.

If you are tired of how our politicians act you should become one yourself and see how easy it is first hand.

[stepnw1f]

168. What's the Matter? (nt)

[Moochy]

195. Wow what a great contribution

take your own advice, and STFU.

[enigmacat]

218. So, I guess by your logic, you either agree with everything politicians do

Or you are a politician? LOLOLOL

[dollydew]

155. Right On

Chavez IS NOT THAT IMPORTANT! Chavez is not waging illegal wars. Chavez is not calling for torture of people. OUR president IS! Doesn't strike any one as odd that Dems can get air time to criticize Chavez but not Bush? Hmmmmm......

[dollydew]

159. edit on post

oops Edit: doesn't IT strike anyone as odd....

[lvx35]

158. 174 votes for greatest

and worth every one. thanks

[FourScore]

161. Make it 178!

[stepnw1f]

167. 180 Nominations and NOT on the Front Page

nice...

[Clarkie1]

173. The Purpose of this site is to support the Democratic Party

and progressive causes here at home, not to prop up petty populists abroad.

I imagine that has something to do with it not being on the front page.

[stepnw1f]

175. This Rant is a Great Message to the Dems

and the number of nominations confirm it as being more than a "petty populists abroad". What's petty is your attempt to insult the OP and I. Nice try, Clarkie1.

[upi402]

194. Dems wont hear this, ears removed when spine extracted

It would be a cotton candy and purple pony America if we could afford to take the high road and have courteous debate whether it is reciprocated or not.

I'm just done making nice to the piss ants that want to continue shoving this populous to the right, inch by inch, until we're air born off the cliff.

[Clarkie1]

171. I disagree. I support Rangel and Pelosi and their statements.

Also, there are mistatements in your thread. 65% of the American people do not favor immediate withdrawl from Iraq. They favor changing course and leaving a.s.a.p. while doing what can still be done to prevent a wider conflict, regional war, and a failed state.

The OP does not represent the will of the majority of registered Democrats, in my opinion. I understand your desire for Democrats to be strong and outspoken in their convictions, but we have to be clear what those convictions are.

Chavez is a childish, egocentric, ineffective petty populist. Let's keep the focus on American politics and winning in 06'.

[lvx35]

199. Here's the deal though...

Two things:

1) Chavez may be of questionable character; the guy wants to be a permanent leader ike Fidel, etc. But who has he invaded in the name of "pre-emptive" defense of Venezuela? How has he institutionalized torture, or tried to redefine the Geneva convention? The ugly fact is that what is going on in America under the Bush administration morally inferior to anything Chavez has done. And that is what creates this sad state of affairs: People are clapping for the dropout in a two piece suit because he's better than our vegitative imbecile in a three piece suit.
2) The OP DOES represent the majority of Dems. Maybe you work in the party, and see the inner workings of things, but I don't. Most of us don't What we see is liars on TV endlessly smashing liberals and dems as effeminate, flip flopping weaklings who cannot be trusted with government in a time of war...then we see Democrats spinelessly appeasing and compromising endlessly, and being called "flip-floppers" for doing so. We need to ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK. When we do this, then the American people will see we have enough spine to protect them from terror and deal with war.
3) Thanks for posting. Diverse opinions make us who we are, glad you piped up! :)

[WilliamPitt]

220. I second all of the above

[Pharaoh]

172. Wonderful!

K&R.............Yeah we need to get this party rolling or make a new plan here at DU!

[MasonJar]

174. Please forward this worthy rant to every Dem in Congress. I

would if I knew how. I am sadly a roadkill on the information highway and likely to stay that way.

[cyberpj]

176. Realistically, emails wouldn't get nearly the attention of hand-written

letters. But lots and lots of people have to agree to do it - AND in their own words - for it to have an impact.

Petitions and emails are too easy, don't show a lot of effort and so don't get a lot of attention these days.

[LibraLiz1973]

177. Can I nominate this dozens of times?

[Red Right and BLUE]

181. Kicked and Rec'd!

[wiley]

184. The Double Edged Sword - Recommended to highlight "opposing" posts

Some of us are tired of serving as janitors to crap dump rants. They must go answered, lest someone believe that "the prevailing sentiments of the entire damn world" are discernible, and "they" support your post. Actually, I'm not at the level of superpower that opposing my post will mean I can then win the election for the Democrats, but I'm pretty aware of the actual living conditions of a huge swath of the world and they are so much more urgently concerned with food, water, treatment for malaria, worms, TB, AIDS and protection from their local corrupt, power mad leaders than they are with your, well not to cause more undue attention and divisiveness I'll call "a highly personal post". You know, Egocasting leads to Incestuous Amplification leads to Fascism.

Which brings me to my main point. One day from now 99% of the American electorate will forget everything you're having a fit about. With the media and inertia and short attention spans working against us, a steady, continuous diet is the only kind that will work to remove that unwanted Republican dead weight from our lives. In the meantime - and I know this is the most excruciatingly difficult and painful thing to do - we must remember that all politics are local. Having a group of people or even someone like Chavez (who you might think is reasonable or laudable) drop into your congressional district is something you respond to.

Hopefully business can get back to business in Harlem (mostly very small ones whose employees don't eat for a few days when disruptions of this kind occur; kids can get back to their crumbling understaffed cramped schools with heroic teachers whose only chance for survival or improvement - which never seems to happen anyway - is their House Rep fighting for them. I'm sure the wealthier set that is rapidly gentrifying the district and throwing out families and people who have lived there for decades was thrilled by the "edgy" Chavez parade, but the people in the district know absolutely nothing will have changed today by his presence, except once again someone is using them as a doormat for some agenda.

The elected voice of the district,in this case Charlie Rangel, is now seen as NOT having been punked. Punks don't keep their seats in CDs like this. And the people who live there don't want to be seen as not being Americans, because they are Americans even if they despise everything the Pukes stand for. Considering the demographic make-up of the CD, a lot of people who are still able to afford to live there have served in the military - contrary to popular stereotypes, because they are likely very patriotic, and very brave, and somehow still hopeful that their families and their community will have the same access to resources and opportunities that so many Americans seem to be entitled to thanks solely to their race - and the last thing they want is their patriotism impugned.

They can support or criticize their President and speak out better than any visiting leader can. They don't appreciate being punked by Chavez either, because they are the ones who hold their House rep's feet to the fire. They'll take any fool's oil, to be sure, especially at a good price, and it's not going to change their minds about anything. It's not like struggling working families or unemployed or poor people need anyone to tell them who's bending them over.

Those who have the resources and right family name and skin color in America always seem to be the ones who get called patriotic and contributing members of society and sober and non-gang members and intelligent. That doesn't mean Rangel's CD is any less in love with America or Democracy, or so stupid they need lectures on what free speech means. Like I said before, invite Chavez or anyone you like to your CD. Make sure to ensure that those who don't appreciate him or his policies have the right to object to their policies, throw flowers as if he is a liberator, or bitch about the disruption to their daily lives.

Maybe the problem with Democrats losing elections is having other people, say, like you, tell the communities they live in what matters to them and how they should respond to the visit of a foreign leader. Like I said they're all pretty much completely over it if they even knew about it to begin with. And you don't "fight imperialism", whatever textbook that came from, with other country's leaders offering survival resources like oil to people in need or struggling to get by. Isn't that the form of slavery that Republicans use that started this entire mess in the first place. Their only incredibly poor defense is that they were not the first country to use such tactics to occupy, invade or rob another country while enslaving those and their own people.

[Jcrowley]

215. Bingo

The truth

[Pastiche423]

185. Recommendation #199

I am going to mail a copy of this excellent rant to my two senators, along w/the link to this thread.

For my representative, I believe I will hand carry it to him when he soon will be coming to my town to debate his repug opponent.

[Gloria]

187. Right on!

[laundry_queen]

188. Best rant ever. n/t

[Timbuk3]

189. Rec 204

That one was mine.

Makes you feel like saying *tap* *tap* "Is this thing on?", doesn't it?

[file83]

190. "Justice is Comin" for PRESIDENT!!!!!

Grab the donkey by the ears and whip it into shape!!

[Hawkowl]

192. Perfect Rant

I'd like to tatoo this rant on every Dem incumbent's arm.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

198. Great rant!! Thank you for saying what I've been feeling....

I think the problem is that too many of our democratic leaders want to be president themselves. When Kerry was handed the nomination in '04, he was pretty much abandoned by his party.

Between the time of Clinton's surgery and the election, he was being interviewed on his health and the importance of weight lost. He was being called a "Political Rock Star" by even the most conservative talking heads. Clinton never fully endorsed Kerry. All Clinton had to do was tell Americans that Bush was corrupt and Kerry would make a good leader. We would have won with one sentence.

So many say that 'democratic politicians aren't given the same amount of air-time Republicans have" and that's the reason why we're not being heard. Clinton was on the Daily Show the other day, a forum where he could have said anything and if it was news worthy it would have gotten press. His interview was no barn-burner.

Why isn't Kerry making the rounds?

Six years since the stolen election of 2000 and we still have to worry about voting methods. If our politicians were raising hell, the public would be demanding change. I know Oprah would have Hillary on in an instant.

Most voters don't even realize Republicans are in power.

:argh:

[autorank]

200. Rokken...they need a big reminder...this is for all the marbles.

Our last chance. Great post K&R

[Casablanca]

201. Good rant. But it's Dem COMPLICITY, not cowardice. nt

[BigBearJohn]

202. Rangel said Cheney is mentally unfit for office. How's that better than

what Chavez said?

[Sapphire Blue]

203. Justice Is Comin, thank you for saying it so very well!

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
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[cosmicdot]

204. 223rd to recommend

in this time of fascism, police-state authoritarianism, coup'd elections, treasury-looting, safety-net bathtub drowning, spying, torturing, PATRIOT acts destroying our rights and our country, reckless economic and environmental policies, signing statements, and illegitimate power appointing judges to the federal courts ... and, so much more ... Yes, I do require a lot of Party purity and litmus tests ... of course, at this point, it's more country-saving and Constitution-saving purity

for Heaven sakes call for a moratorium on the HAVA machines and central tabulators and call for paper ballots, hand-counting in November ... how friggin' difficult that ... Lead or get out of the way.

[Nostradammit]

205. Well put -

I must concur.

[deacon]

206. There is no sense of urgency- if now isn't the time to fight back then

when? I just don't get it.

[Philosoraptor]

207. Wow-I thought for a minute that I'd written that, great read.

[AntiFascist]

208. Recommendation #230...

not because I particularly support Chavez or his remarks, but because defending Bush unfortunately does put us at odds with respect to the rest of the world. This is an unfortunate position to be in at the present time.

[democrank]

209. BRAVO! BRAVO! BRAVO!

We`re so used to tepid representation that we get all excited when an elected leader even attempts to make a peep. BREAKING ON CNN....Harry Reid says he`s starting to get a little upset with Republican dirty tricks, but is willing to work out differences with his friends across the asle.

Any Democratic leader worth his/her salt should be willing to lay it all on the line about now, based solely on principle. Forget the consultants. Forget the image makers. Forget the polls. Forget the corporate donors. They shouldn`t have to hold a meeting to discuss whether or not they want to make a statement about torture.

When a moderate like Howard Dean (check his Vermont record) ends up being the party`s poster boy for liberalism, something is very, very wrong. I`ve been a voting Democrat for over four decades and I`m here to tell you that we`ve lost our way. There is no way in hell Democratic leaders from the old days would have silently taken the crap we`ve been through. I`ve no desire to vote Miniature Republican. We need some new blood....and quick.

[weeve]

210. Bush probably IS the Devil ...

... whose farts probably DO smell sulfuric ( and linger a day ).

That's why I will continue to tank up at the local CITGO station. Go Hugo !!

It's quite refreshing in my opinion for a world leader to stick it to Bush in a public arena, especially in such a humorous way. Hell Chavez knew he was joking around ( it was damned funny, even IF it doesn't turn out to be true ) ... it's a shame Pelosi and others didn't. The "devil" line was a joke ... the "thug" line wasn't.

But even the whole Chavez thing set aside ... that original post was well done Justice is Coming ... well done. I've already forwarded it all over the place.

Of COURSE our goal this Fall is to get Democratic majorities. ( Conyers leading the Justice committee would be a beautiful thing ). Let's just hope we can do it IN SPITE of our Democratic leadership.

[draloo]

211. Damn Right!

It seems George Wallace may have been right. "There ain"t a dimes worth of difference between the two"

[doctor_garth]

213. "You're supposed to be Democrats!! Act like it"

They ARE acting like it, what are you talking about?

Dems haven't fought in anything for years, for instance they've rolled over and played dead in the nominations of all Supreme Court Hitler sympathizers so far and name ONE VOTE that Dems showed any kind of SPINE whatsoever.

And don't give me this bullshit about Dems not having power, they can still filibuster, they can still make a lot of noise. They won't do either.

[Skip Intro]

216. Damn! Went to rec and couldn't. Here's a kick, nonetheless.

:thumbsup:

[enigmacat]

217. You expressed sentiments very similar to mine, but be careful...

...You might be branded a troll! Gasp!

Good for you for speaking your mind.

[NotGivingUp]

219. excellent rant! you expressed my feelings exactly!

[earth mom]

222. WOW! How in the hell did I miss this awesome rant?!

Bravo! :applause:

Your post is so god damn true! I couldn't have said it better myself! But gotta say that it is REALLY annoying to see some of the posts on this thread infer that some of just don't "understand how politics work" because the dems are doing the "best" they can! Give me a fucking break! Because this is NOT as good as it gets! Why aren't more dems in office behaving as Conyers and fighting the thugs who are sending this country down the toilet so damn fast it ain't funny?! Sorry, but most of us are old enough to remember how REAL DEMS fight the opposition! We remember the days when dems fought back whether they could "win" or not. Just like Conyers is doing! The piss poor way the dems are behaving makes a good case for them possibly being blackmailed, or who knows, maybe most of em are not really dems at all, but actually pulling "Liebermans" on all of us!

NO MORE EXCUSES! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! That is what we ALL should be saying after 5 long years of this bullshit!

:grr: