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Member since: Tue Mar 25, 2014, 01:18 PM
Number of posts: 14,129

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So what is the alternative to holding my nose and voting Hillary?

Two years ago I attended a debate among candidates for my District's Congressional seat. A Republican, a pretty progressive Democrat, and a Green Party candidate. I was so impressed with the Green Party candidate that I approached him to ask him why he wasn't trying to work and run within the Democratic Party. He was about my age. He looked at me for a second (I suppose now that he was framing his response as opposed to offending me by saying something like "are you naive?" and said because the Party would never support him as a candidate for Congress. He then proceeded to explain how he'd been active as a precinct member for many years before finally realizing that the Party was moving right not left and was never going to change as long as money drove the system. He basically said what Bernie says: the system is corrupt -- and to be successful within the Party system, you have to be a "team player" and "play ball". He said it was obvious to him that the Democratic Party was in bed with corporations and money, controlled by what he called Republican lights, and was no longer committed to truly progressive principles. So he left and joined the Green Party.

This primary season has, as I said, been a real eye opener. The Party is clearly corrupt as is our government. They have been purchased and are controlled by "money". Bernie's campaign has done a wonderful job at making this abundantly clear to anyone who has been paying attention.

So you asked, what is the alternative? I ask: do you truly care about your country? I am convinced that holding my nose and voting simply enables the status quo. What is the status quo? Well, it's really not very good. Sure, we make progress on social issues, to a degree, but we continue to trend to the right on economic and electoral issues. The Democratic Party simply is not committed to making the kind of fundamental changes that we so desperately need today. "Slowing" the flow to the right is not fixing the problem; and I'm frankly not convinced that Hillary would even slow the flow to the right when it comes to key economic issues. (I won't even bring up the problems of imperialism here.)

The alternative for me is to support real change. I will either be voting for Jill Stein (Green Party) after doing some more research, or writing Bernie in this fall.

Am I concerned about Trump? Yes, but my adult children have given me broader perspective on that and the SCOTUS issue. Actually, they have convinced me by example that voting for Hillary is the wrong thing to do. You see, one of them, my second child is gay. Another, my daughter, the youngest is a female. They are quite adamant that "equal rights" will be meaningless in 20 years if we don't break down the corporate hold on America's governance to actually fix our most important problems now today: global warming, a divided world, and income inequality. So social issues that affect them personally in significant way are moot as they see it if we don't make the significant changes today. My third child, the oldest, is a bit more radical. He just says we gotta break the system to fix it; a Trump presidency would do that.

- - - -
I understand that some here will take exception to and tell me how short sighted and self-absorbed this is. But I see it as exactly the opposite. So please respect my views and opinions and I will respect yours.

Why Bernie Sanders Is Our Best Chance to Beat Donald Trump

And why Berners shouldn't let themselves get discouraged by the Clinton machine's mind games!

- - - - snip - - - -
Hand-wringing over party unity misses the point. No one cares about your precious parties.
As Hillary Clinton joylessly stumbles her way to the Democratic nomination, calls have increased for Bernie Sanders to either drop out of the race altogether or, at least, to stop fighting so darn hard. We’re told that Bernie should drop out for the good of the party. Bernie should drop out so that Hillary can make her general election “pivot” (which presumably means she can be free of the burden of pretending to be a liberal). … Hogwash. ... Bernie Sanders is our best chance to beat Donald Trump and to prove to the young voters backing him that the Democratic party actually stands for something.

Error in thinking #1: Sanders supporters care about the existing system.
... These young voters are expected to back down for the sake of a party they tell pollsters they don’t identify with, in the service of nominating a presidential candidate who promises to maintain a system that has conspired to screw them at every turn.

Error in thinking #2: Uniting around Clinton is the best shot to beat Trump.
The very same people who condescendingly exhort Sanders followers to “do the math” on the nomination process seem to have left their own calculators at home when it comes to figuring out who can actually win this fall. … According to the math, Sanders is a much better bet for November, which makes sense when you think about it. Consider, for example, that he has cleaned Clinton’s clock with independents.
Here’s a reality check folks: Independents win elections. They like Bernie and they hate Hillary. That’s to say nothing of the fact that a majority of voters find Clinton untrustworthy, a reality I’m confident will not be helped by her general election “pivot” to yet another version of the real HRC.

Error in thinking #3: Winning is the only goal that matters.
Let’s pretend Hillary Clinton is a winner. Is this really what the Democratic party has been reduced to? Not fighting for the poor? Not standing up for the working people of this country? Not fighting with every breath to push the money and corruption out of a system that only works for a glossy few?
Of course, we know that for much of the party establishment the answer is yes. Bill Clinton provided a master class in how to sacrifice your principles to the gods of electoral success. A tactic, by the way, that may have found some success at the presidential level, but which has led the Democratic party to historic, crushing defeats in most of the country. For reference, just examine the largest number of state legislatures in our nation’s history in Republican hands or the way inequality has soared unchecked as Democrats decided that winning national elections mattered more than fighting for the middle class or the working class or the poor.
So to the Bern-baby-Bern crowd I say, keep fighting. Your fight is worthy. Your cause is just. Your passionate existence irritates the Democratic powers that be because you remind them of all that they are supposed to stand for.


Oh the hyperbole coming from the Hillary folks this morning!

Here's one of the best:

What will it take for Bernie to reign the Death Threats in? Does someone have to Die????
…the horrific, ugly and sexist acts of terrorism against Democratic women.
He has not even contacted Roberta Lange … to see if she, her family and her five year old grandchild are alright and try to help stop the minute by minute harassment they are suffering in his name.
… After watching children being terrified at Hillary rallies by Sanders supporters and now this 5 year old child, I can't imagine what kind of miserable human being he must be

People get angry at a transparently rigged convention and the Hillary side then blows it up into (I've even seen it called a "riot" and now) a reign of death threats here this morning.

Jam a stick into someone's eye and then call them -- blame them for being -- "violent" barbarians for pushing you back. It's almost Machiavellian in its spin!

Hillary won West Virginia in 2008 by a 67-26 margin! Bernie just beat her by 15 points ...

51 to 36 percent; plus he carried every county in the state—taking several with over 60 percent of the vote.

Go Bernie!!!

Is it just me? Or are others seeing more locked threads and getting more hides

here in the GD: Primaries forum?

I dunno. It just seems like there's a concerted effort to stifle expression right now.

Maybe it is time for Skinner to "call it" if that is what truly is going on.

Another jury result.

Hillary Clinton’s Damning Emails ~ Consortiumnews.com


This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.


You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed May 4, 2016, 10:56 AM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Meh. It's an issue that is out there. Hiding it won't make it go away.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: idiot conspiracy
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: More right wing bullshit posted by an alleged "progressive."
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: There is an FBI investigation.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is not going away, and pretending it will is delusional. Leave it.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Just an observation before going to bed ...

the Hillsies are out in force tonight here at DU.

Indiana has obviously amped their posting proclivity. Wondering why (denial?, outrage at insurrection? insecurity? their earth moved? ...), but too tired to offer any cogent theories at the moment.

Anyone care to help?

Why Do Progressives Cling to Hillary?

Good question. Good article. What do you think?

How could so many progressives vote for Hillary over Bernie? … What does Hillary offer to progressives that Bernie can’t provide in abundance?

1. Hillary’s a proven winner?
Hillary progressives cling to this winner meme even though poll after poll shows that Sanders is running better against all the Republican candidates. Hillary’s favorable/unfavorable ratings according to the Real Clear Politics average of polls is -15.2%, while Bernie’s is +5.2%.

2. Hillary knows how to get things done?
You would think Hillary progressives would be concerned about many of her past accomplishments. If Hillary wants to take credit for the Clinton presidency when it comes to job creation, she must also shoulder the responsibility for dismantling “welfare as we know it,” the crime bill which helped make the U.S. the world leader in prisoners, and NAFTA which helped to gut good-paying industrial jobs.

3. Hillary is realistic, Bernie is not?
Bernie wants to mobilize the country into a “political revolution” for fundamental change. Hillary has no interest in such a movement. She sees herself as the change-maker-in-chief. It’s all about her ability to produce pragmatic changes, not about our ability to force such changes into existence.

4. Hillary is more experienced in foreign affairs?
It is hard to distinguish her record from the neoconservatives. She supported the Iraq War ... called for more troops to surge in Afghanistan than even the leading generals wanted ... engaged in nation-building in Libya and tacit regime change in Honduras ... wants a no fly zone in Syria that most generals say would require tens of thousands of support troops.
The primaries provide a classic “hawk vs dove” choice, and Hillary progressives are going with the birds of prey.

etc, etc


Latest in Hillary Group -- ridiculous!

Clicked on a post in the Latest Threads directory before I realized it was posted to Hillary group. Here's the heading:
WP: Sanders is biggest spender of 2016 so far — generating millions for consultants

Now they are criticizing Bernie for spending our money to enrich wealthy people.

These DINOs know no bounds do they?

It seems to me their authoritarian bent won't let them be gracious in the face of any challenge whatsoever. I dunno, to call themselves Democrats just seems downright ludicrous to me.

So was watching MSNBC coverage...

last night. It was disheartening to see them rant and rave about how Bernie is just being self-centered, nasty and destructive and how his supporters are just idealistic young folks with no real life experience and are not democrats. The condescension was dripping from their lips like Hillary can do no wrong. Even the cool headed heads were drowned out by the yelling and constant bias against Bernie – especially by Joy Reid and, of course, Chris Matthews shaking his head in harsh disapproval of all things Bernie. They were mad last night about the reality that Bernie isn’t just going to roll over; it all came crashing down hard on them especially as they realized that Hillary has major weaknesses that won’t now be papered over immediately and may limp into the nomination. They told us for months (heck years) that Hillary was going to win not just by huge margins, but without a real challenge from any quarter. I will no longer watch MSNBC and might even have to revoke my membership in the Democratic Party iif this kind of behavior continues.

PS – A note of appreciation to Legends303 of Hillary group for providing the framework and much of the text for this post. The names and some of the facts have been changed to provide perspective, but the sentiments remain the same.
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