General Discussion

patphil

(9,126 posts)

16. The truth is a lot different than what you think.

Mon Nov 20, 2023, 08:59 PM

Nov 2023

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/was-hamas-elected-to-govern-gaza-george-w-bush-2006-palestinian-election.html

read the whole article, but here is an important excerpt:

It was in January 2006 that the Palestinian territories held what turned out to be their last parliamentary elections. Hamas won a bare plurality of votes (44 percent to the more moderate Fatah party’s 41 percent) but, given the electoral system, a strong majority of seats (74 to 45). Neither party was keen on sharing power. Fighting broke out between the two. When a unity government was finally formed in June 2007, Hamas broke the deal, started murdering Fatah members, and, in the end, took total control of the Gaza Strip. Those who weren’t killed fled to the West Bank, and the territories have remained split ever since.

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Goddessartist Lemonwurst Think. Again.TubbersUK Cognitive_Resonance Emrys

108 replies

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Israel has long wanted Palestinians out of Gaza - my father saw it firsthand (Guardian) [View all] David__77 Nov 2023 OP

happy to be the 1st rec WarGamer Nov 2023 #1

Some people, especially Israel's right wing, wouldn't mind for sure. BlueCheeseAgain Nov 2023 #2

I agree completely. David__77 Nov 2023 #3

Then vs Now Thinker Cats Nov 2023 #4

Simpler time enid602 Nov 2023 #105

The US is also not a monolith, but for 4 years...... jaxexpat Nov 2023 #43

True but here's the problem. AloeVera Nov 2023 #68

Hamas is the elected ruling party of Gaza TexasDem69 Nov 2023 #5

But your comment is irrelevant to the OP WarGamer Nov 2023 #6

The large majority were not of voting age the last time there were elections. Close to a majority weren't even born! David__77 Nov 2023 #7

The point is that Hamas is the elected ruling party TexasDem69 Nov 2023 #8

To assume this is true for a moment: what's your point? David__77 Nov 2023 #10

The point is clear TexasDem69 Nov 2023 #11

I just wondered if you cared to state it clearly rather than by implication. David__77 Nov 2023 #15

The point is that support for Hamas makes you a legitimate military target. Lucky Luciano Nov 2023 #70

My understanding is that combatants, specifically, are legitimate military targets. David__77 Nov 2023 #72

Can you verify that... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #21

From the Jerusalem Post TexasDem69 Nov 2023 #23

Well, obviously, those 2 polls... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #29

I don't know enough either TexasDem69 Nov 2023 #30

It could be video of anything... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #36

Please tell me you aren't claiming TexasDem69 Nov 2023 #47

There have been multiple verifications... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #55

Palestinians in Gaza, West Bank strongly support Hamas, October 7 attack Cha Nov 2023 #62

You are trying to make it black & white womanofthehills Nov 2023 #96

Your post #7 and the article don't agree. yagotme Nov 2023 #77

Most of the people who were first generation refugees are dead. David__77 Nov 2023 #79

Increase is approx. 6x. If original refugees are dead, that's a HECK of a birthrate, right there... nt yagotme Nov 2023 #80

Yes, there has been population growth. David__77 Nov 2023 #82

Population growth at a factor of 6x. With a high death rate? yagotme Nov 2023 #83

CSIS link related to this: David__77 Nov 2023 #86

"Estimates." Again, I have suspicions. yagotme Nov 2023 #101

True womanofthehills Nov 2023 #97

I think as people get older, they may often lose perspective of how quickly the world changes. David__77 Nov 2023 #98

It has been 75 years. Where do you think they are? whopis01 Nov 2023 #90

Of course, it also ignores the nearly equal number of Jews who fled or were expelled from Arab countries tritsofme Nov 2023 #92

I don't quite see how that follows what I said whopis01 Nov 2023 #93

Logic. yagotme Nov 2023 #102

You appear to be questioning points I did not make whopis01 Nov 2023 #107

Your post: yagotme Nov 2023 #108

It is not irrelevant TexasDem69 Nov 2023 #9

So you're advocating for the entire population to be treated as enemy combatants? WarGamer Nov 2023 #12

Wow TexasDem69 Nov 2023 #13

I would argue that the way the war is being waged... WarGamer Nov 2023 #19

So..... Red Mountain Nov 2023 #24

I would hope that people smarter than I would figure it out. WarGamer Nov 2023 #31

Hamas' murderers are literally TexasDem69 Nov 2023 #50

wait for them to leave? WarGamer Nov 2023 #51

And what if they don't leave? TexasDem69 Nov 2023 #54

How many people are you willing to see Israel kill? Big Blue Marble Nov 2023 #56

Good deflection TexasDem69 Nov 2023 #61

You are projecting to avoid answering the question. Big Blue Marble Nov 2023 #64

Let's try reversing this sentence, and see what happens: yagotme Nov 2023 #78

In the aftermath of WWII, Mr. Evil Nov 2023 #53

And Israel was the "new country" that should not have been founded? elias7 Nov 2023 #88

If Israel is so good at limiting civilian deaths womanofthehills Nov 2023 #99

Yes, because, if Israel wanted to, they could actually carpet-bomb Gaza. yagotme Nov 2023 #103

Do you think they are? Red Mountain Nov 2023 #22

No, I don't... WarGamer Nov 2023 #25

I don't think you understand the difference TexasDem69 Nov 2023 #32

they don't live underground 24/7/365... WarGamer Nov 2023 #34

How is that a solution that protects Israel? TexasDem69 Nov 2023 #37

Not apples to apples Red Mountain Nov 2023 #33

The point I was making... is that the IDF has the capability to strike individual fighters. WarGamer Nov 2023 #35

What are "Hamas' citizens"? David__77 Nov 2023 #17

Good catch. Think. Again. Nov 2023 #38

The truth is a lot different than what you think. patphil Nov 2023 #16

Hamas won the vote TexasDem69 Nov 2023 #18

17 years ago! And then they drove the opposition party out of Gaza. patphil Nov 2023 #69

It was actually Fatah who feared Hamas would also beat them in the West Bank, as well as Gaza tritsofme Nov 2023 #91

It's actually the opposite Zeitghost Nov 2023 #100

I might add that Trump was the elected leader of the United States and thus represents all of us? LiberalArkie Nov 2023 #42

Elimination enid602 Nov 2023 #59

You might want to re-think this phrase: yagotme Nov 2023 #104

What happens if no_hypocrisy Nov 2023 #14

That's a lot of hypotheticals in one post Red Mountain Nov 2023 #26

This separate and apart from the October 7 attack by Hamas. no_hypocrisy Nov 2023 #41

Apparently, the WB settlers has grander ideas. Big Blue Marble Nov 2023 #27

Please tell me that's a fringe case redqueen Nov 2023 #45

This interview is with Daniella Weiss, Big Blue Marble Nov 2023 #63

Here's what Hamas wants, no "secrets" about it TexasDem69 Nov 2023 #28

K&R Goddessartist Nov 2023 #20

and many of us have long been sick of the entire dispute Skittles Nov 2023 #39

I don't think Hamas' murders are about religion TexasDem69 Nov 2023 #52

Rodney King had it right Skittles Nov 2023 #75

Have you ever made an OP that only was negative about Hamas? NoRethugFriends Nov 2023 #40

Targeted attack of a long time DUer much? The_Casual_Observer Nov 2023 #67

A question NoRethugFriends Nov 2023 #71

Poor form n/t leftstreet Nov 2023 #73

Questioning a total one-sided poster? NoRethugFriends Nov 2023 #74

Where in DU's TOS does it say "both siderism please?" leftstreet Nov 2023 #76

I'll say what the hell I want. NoRethugFriends Nov 2023 #81

Oh, okay n/t leftstreet Nov 2023 #84

The UN started something in 1947 that wasn't ever going to work out. Aussie105 Nov 2023 #44

The Arabs didn't say "Go away!" Autumn_Angler Nov 2023 #57

Seems like the Palestinians would like a bunch of Palestinians out of Palestine. NoRethugFriends Nov 2023 #46

Yes, and I don't think the bombs are going to help them. David__77 Nov 2023 #48

Total non-sequitor NoRethugFriends Nov 2023 #49

You're only going to get evasion from that poster. n/t Autumn_Angler Nov 2023 #58

I know. NoRethugFriends Nov 2023 #60

A factual account delivered by a legit source. Nuff said The_Casual_Observer Nov 2023 #65

All Fall Down Redux moniss Nov 2023 #66

There is no good guy - bad guy in this war. Aussie105 Nov 2023 #85

One thing about the tactic of keeping the Palestinian people in poverty to get rid of them. Uncle Joe Nov 2023 #87

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2023 #89

Truth comes out LiberaBlueDem Nov 2023 #94

In the short term, the fight is against resumption of the bombardment. David__77 Nov 2023 #95

This is an opinion piece TexasDem69 Nov 2023 #106