General Discussion

ancianita

(36,081 posts)

17. Before I put in my two cents, I'll say that the MLK photo implication is clever of you.

Tue Sep 24, 2013, 04:03 PM

Sep 2013

Last edited Tue Sep 24, 2013, 06:08 PM - Edit history (1)

First, liberal idealism stretches the parameters of political and moral vision.

Second, it validates one group's aspirations within the larger partisan or national governing platform.

Third, there's much to be said for ongoing reminders to those who 'win' deals, that other, better efforts can also be envisioned and fought for, in the interest of the greatest good for the greatest number.

Fourth, reminding the larger American and human community of ideals is what we do. It has inherent validity.

Overall, I don't see people here being all that obnoxious about the president, really. Maybe I'm naive, but I trust the good intentions of all critics of the president here, because I believe they mean well, and because troll hunters here do an excellent job.

Let me ask others: what good does asking liberal idealists to quiet down do? The president told everyone, everyone -- not just liberals -- to hold his feet to the fire. I'm upset with many of his decisions but know that we're better off now than had the other guys won.

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Maybe the idealist liberals can just stifile themselves [View all] CreekDog Sep 2013 OP

Shhhh lefties. NuclearDem Sep 2013 #1

We can do that?? Hydra Sep 2013 #3

We could start screaming "socialism" and stuff like "worker's rights" NuclearDem Sep 2013 #4

O.o Hydra Sep 2013 #5

And whistle blowers. dgibby Sep 2013 #41

I'm all about that idea. n/t PowerToThePeople Sep 2013 #11

I scream about smearing with lime jello and dare them to have a problem with it. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #52

I get that reference! BillyRibs Sep 2013 #121

Sounds sensible... jsr Sep 2013 #2

1) bad policy proposed 2) we "wait for the details" before saying anything 3) it passes MisterP Sep 2013 #6

you're so right! once a law passes, is impossible to change back. look at the 9/11-knee jerk laws. Sunlei Sep 2013 #16

They're rescindable. ancianita Sep 2013 #18

Technically, yes. But practically? Democracyinkind Sep 2013 #20

It's not totally up to industry. It can be done for the greater good of all. Industry can suck it. ancianita Sep 2013 #65

I agree. That's why Ibsaid "elected officials". Democracyinkind Sep 2013 #122

Like Welfare Reform? That was, how long ago now? Airc, it was supposed to be 'fixed'. sabrina 1 Sep 2013 #106

Your irrational ODS is noted Capt. Obvious Sep 2013 #7

ODS is a lie demwing Sep 2013 #63

I don't know exactly your take on the ODS, but for me it's improper semantically and culturally. libdem4life Sep 2013 #83

The "__ Derangement syndrome" meme is a well known right wing attack device created by Dragonfli Sep 2013 #116

^ reddread Sep 2013 #130

Thanks for the explanation...wasn't around here during Bush and frankly wasn't too surprised libdem4life Sep 2013 #137

I don't mind them. In fact, I think them useful. Xyzse Sep 2013 #8

This. nt Skidmore Sep 2013 #30

Thank you! beerandjesus Sep 2013 #37

Thank you! That's all the idealist liberals ask. When the time is right, the ideals become real. ancianita Sep 2013 #72

This! We all have more in common than not. IronLionZion Sep 2013 #133

Good points. The problem with... Blanks Sep 2013 #141

I can agree with this Xyzse Sep 2013 #143

If we don't get control of the house and maintain control of the senate... Blanks Sep 2013 #149

For this, we may have to agree to disagree on a few points. Xyzse Sep 2013 #150

I agree that it's too early to look at 2016... Blanks Sep 2013 #151

the "moderate republicans" in control of the party would like lefties to STFU nt msongs Sep 2013 #9

True that Roland99 Sep 2013 #10

Really? colsohlibgal Sep 2013 #12

Where can we read through it? LiberalAndProud Sep 2013 #13

big difference between idealist and ideologue. Idealist works towards goals, taking long view. KittyWampus Sep 2013 #14

+1 JoePhilly Sep 2013 #43

And then there's the apathetic, who just snarls at anyone arguing against status quo n/t Scootaloo Sep 2013 #112

I am sure the freepers are cheering that goal hollysmom Sep 2013 #15

Before I put in my two cents, I'll say that the MLK photo implication is clever of you. ancianita Sep 2013 #17

thank you CreekDog Sep 2013 #27

Obama DID clearly ask to be held accountable to his campaign promises. 99th_Monkey Sep 2013 #19

I, for one, took that seriously (too). Democracyinkind Sep 2013 #21

Oh, that was just marketing RetroLounge Sep 2013 #31

Well, that's no excuse 99th_Monkey Sep 2013 #35

I don't think *he* is... RetroLounge Sep 2013 #36

Beat me to it! beerandjesus Sep 2013 #39

an excellent point CreekDog Sep 2013 #45

They're just fussing with each other. Families do that, and I'm feminist enough to say that. ancianita Sep 2013 #75

Yes. That's probably true. nt 99th_Monkey Sep 2013 #94

Absolutism absolutely fails. Practicality & pragmatism often win. Sometimes stifle, sometimes shout. Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2013 #22

+1 Jamaal510 Sep 2013 #102

Absolutely! GeorgeGist Sep 2013 #123

This 'irony' shit is so fucking tiresome. Leave it to One-Note, I mean, Third-Way Manny. Richardo Sep 2013 #23

Yet here you are, kicking it RetroLounge Sep 2013 #32

Here's another. Richardo Sep 2013 #42

I for one, embrace my new Overlord Third-Way Manny. Autumn Sep 2013 #47

I am alerting. Another Third Way Manny appreciation post. Sheesh. rhett o rick Sep 2013 #60

The bigger Third Way Manny's head gets, the better for us. Autumn Sep 2013 #62

Maybe I will just put TWM on ignore and keep regular Manny. rhett o rick Sep 2013 #64

didn't you get the memo? third-way manny is gone. magical thyme Sep 2013 #54

I have an image for that hootinholler Sep 2013 #24

Post removed Post removed Sep 2013 #53

Seconded. Don't start with the censorship shit. ancianita Sep 2013 #67

and I'll 3rd that! Phlem Sep 2013 #74

Isn't that the OP message? hootinholler Sep 2013 #101

Richard Nixon: the last liberal President. Doc_Technical Sep 2013 #25

oh bullshizz: the dude was a nasty rightwing mofo struggle4progress Sep 2013 #114

and above all Enrique Sep 2013 #26

What good does it possibly do to criticize the president from the left? Phlem Sep 2013 #28

The Left is not throwable. Got that? Obama knows that liberal idealism has inherent validity. Obama ancianita Sep 2013 #68

Maybe so Phlem Sep 2013 #99

It's CIC behavior. It's leadership. Real leading is disgusting, which is why most of us don't do it. ancianita Sep 2013 #100

+1 Jamaal510 Sep 2013 #103

Honestly, a lot of people didn't step up for the job. Phlem Sep 2013 #107

True, I might be misinterpreting you, but I do think we have to moderate words like "disgust" ancianita Sep 2013 #108

Just imagine what this country would be like if either of his opponents had won. Phlem Sep 2013 #109

"Real leading is disgusting". WCLinolVir Sep 2013 #131

I negated the unfounded, thus unfair claim that Obama invented kill lists. I was irritated by ancianita Sep 2013 #134

You're obviously not an activist... RetroLounge Sep 2013 #29

indubitably CreekDog Sep 2013 #33

I'm telling SalmonChantedEvening Sep 2013 #59

yes tell them CreekDog Sep 2013 #70

you should know better than to post those thoughts in public! nashville_brook Sep 2013 #34

Here's the problem. jeff47 Sep 2013 #38

Well said Aeroette Sep 2013 #49

Damned right we should continue that movement. You're talking about fair weather moderates. ancianita Sep 2013 #71

No, there's plenty of them further to the left. jeff47 Sep 2013 #73

"All sorts of people" are not what liberal idealists are. They think differently from fair weather ancianita Sep 2013 #77

There are both kinds of "liberal idealists". jeff47 Sep 2013 #139

True. ancianita Sep 2013 #142

Sometimes change is ... GeorgeGist Sep 2013 #124

No, just our recollection of the change is jeff47 Sep 2013 #138

What a GREAT post, beautifully stated! rivegauche Sep 2013 #146

On second read... beerandjesus Sep 2013 #40

I got that on first read. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #50

Thank you. You get it, too. ancianita Sep 2013 #79

no, but he stood on that balcony reddread Sep 2013 #129

I see you took the lecture to the left to heart. dgibby Sep 2013 #44

I loved reading the implication today that we're the rude ones. Starry Messenger Sep 2013 #46

Right on, brother. quakerboy Sep 2013 #48

Oh great, we're having another pity party. cheapdate Sep 2013 #51

I have no intention Jake2413 Sep 2013 #55

There was a very great amount more outrage here over the possibility of going to war in Syria Gman Sep 2013 #56

i don't consider the ones you mention to really be left JI7 Sep 2013 #58

So, No True Scotsman, then? jeff47 Sep 2013 #66

i agree with the poster mostly JI7 Sep 2013 #69

that's because it's right wing republicans gutting voting rights. We expect that Doctor_J Sep 2013 #111

You expect Dems to fight them on it??? With what? With what support? It's a dead issue here now Gman Sep 2013 #115

Wow. Total Hundredth Monkey Effect going on here. Zorra Sep 2013 #57

I'LL ALWAYS SPEAK UP Skittles Sep 2013 #61

Yea, let's not push our luck. Eddie Haskell Sep 2013 #76

Imagine if GWB had told the Tea Partiers to stand down. Their moniker did not emerge out of a libdem4life Sep 2013 #78

Amen, brother. ancianita Sep 2013 #81

That is an awesome picture...never seen that one. Thank you. libdem4life Sep 2013 #84

Glad you liked it. Might as well do a little sanctification for the hell of it. ancianita Sep 2013 #86

Amen, brother ! libdem4life Sep 2013 #87

I hope no one feels compelled to stifle themselves War Horse Sep 2013 #80

Because, everyone, it's really not about any one president, is it. ancianita Sep 2013 #82

Well they have an echo chamber so I won't be so forgiving toward Rex Sep 2013 #85

I don't understand. Are you saying that liberal idealists are some form of authoritarian? ancianita Sep 2013 #88

No, I am saying the echo chamber some here love are the authoritarians. Rex Sep 2013 #89

That I agree with. Idealists and authoritarians don't get along. Not for idealists lack of trying. ancianita Sep 2013 #90

I believe idealists want everyone to get along Rex Sep 2013 #91

Pretty much. It's about the power of love vs. the love of power. About win/win vs. win/lose politics ancianita Sep 2013 #92

K&R. What happened to that spirit? YoungDemCA Sep 2013 #93

... L0oniX Sep 2013 #95

Need some help nailing yourself to that cross? tabasco Sep 2013 #96

Maybe idealist liberals should recognize that they are not the only Democrats who care bluestate10 Sep 2013 #97

Who thinks that? I sure don't. CreekDog Sep 2013 #98

They do recognize. But they shouldn't have to stfu about visions that end need, hard work or ancianita Sep 2013 #104

This is new. RedCappedBandit Sep 2013 #105

ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz........... brooklynite Sep 2013 #110

CD, the problem isn't so much the idealism on the left....it's how it's used. nt AverageJoe90 Sep 2013 #113

You'll be holding your thought a lot longer if you're waiting for a GOP Prez to make it all happen. Scurrilous Sep 2013 #117

where were you in 1996? azurnoir Sep 2013 #120

Stifle This! highprincipleswork Sep 2013 #118

Poetry for the ages...A Liberal "Idealist" turned American Leader libdem4life Sep 2013 #136

Results without ideals highprincipleswork Sep 2013 #152

Good point. Change is never easy. MannyGoldstein Sep 2013 #119

100th rec! nt Union Scribe Sep 2013 #125

K&R'ed BrainDrain Sep 2013 #126

Remember our poutrage over that homophobic Fucknutz at the inaugural? Warren Stupidity Sep 2013 #127

We take credit for Syria. joshcryer Sep 2013 #128

because no one gives a fuck what we think. questionseverything Sep 2013 #148

It is called "holding their feet to the fire" randr Sep 2013 #132

lolz Yes, idealists are all MLK!1! JNelson6563 Sep 2013 #135

That's right, just twist this thread all to hell in order to shoot the shotgun snark at yea-sayers. ancianita Sep 2013 #144

or your kind could, and inevitably will stupidicus Sep 2013 #140

I see what you did! bvar22 Sep 2013 #145

IN MY RUSH OF IDEALISM, I MUST'A IMAGINED THAT THE PREZ. SAID TO PUSH HIM, FDR TOO drynberg Sep 2013 #147