I'm done, too.

[seabeyond]

262. thank you for taking my post seriously, and addressing respectfully.

i think you will find, consistently, with respectful posts, conversation ensues.

secondly.

If you reread what you just wrote, and sum it up, it comes down to 'everyone posting against her are trolls'. You're saying that no matter how 'soft' or 'kind' or with whatever approach you take, it doesn't matter. Nothing will change.

no. that is your interpretation of what i wrote. that is how YOU sum it up. that is not what i am saying at all. there are people that disagree the cover was meant to be offensive to a group of women. there are people that clearly saw their intent was to use a woman, in a sexual manner, to get the $. evidence being that buy so many, and you get this. they knew what they were doing. redq knew what they were doing. and one poster in particular admits that was the purpose. but no.... that is NOT saying everyone that disagree is a troll.

redq and i have been on here for over a decade. we are well aware of the posters and have had enough cnversation to know their position, and their style. and the same goes for our manner of posting and our issues. when we have the same old posters, using that thread to dismiss, insult, shame feminists on du, we get that HANDFUL of merely trolls (well, personally, i do not like using the term troll. i think there are many democrats that just participate and reinforce patriarchy for their own rewards, and they are not particularly troll.)

over the years i have heard from a great number of posters that have developed awareness from our posts. i absolutely do not think it is for nothing. those people go into their real life and interact in a non sexist, aware manner and the abuse is worth the reward i get.

so, no... i did not sum it up, as you summed it up for me.

what you say is a 'flaw in my criticism' is what I would simply call a disagreement about the tactics employed in attempting to create that change. You don't feel my tactics are worthwhile, while I feel the tactics that employ a more aggressive or even 'angry' tone are counterproductive.

this is where i do better with questions, then telling another "what they are saying". again, many times i merely see it as a disagreement also, as i can read me state, in this very post. yet, when a man, who always enters these threads, merely to throw a jab, and dismiss or insult the feminist on the board, makes a statement that a hof member simply needs to be laid, that is not worthy of "merely disagreeing", we clearly get what the intent is. we are to going to nicely discuss. we know it is a waste of time. and jury will allow to stand... i have my own theory on that. that is what is tiring to the point of enough, done.

we women have been told often, consistently, regularly that if we only spoke nicely, gently, stroking ego, we would accomplish more. do you know how many men immediately say.... i am angry, hateful, ect.. when there is nothing in a post to suggest that? it is merely used to dismiss what i say. at the point of someone on the net telling me my emotional position, i stop listening. why take that person seriously. he/she are clueless and it is an ignorant manner to interact.

we cannot get the "tone" right enough for many. we cannot have conversation about a lot of issues that meets the uneducated, unaware, dismissive level of importance. is the cover stupid ass shit? ya. not my battle but, i am aware it is not the surface argument we never get past, and that the more important conversation that effects all of us in this society is way beyond a simple cover to sell magazines.

Do you think the Ferguson police handled the protests well? Or Israel and Gaza? Meeting anger with anger? Force with force? Aggression leads to aggression. It only 'feeds' the trolls when you respond to the insults.

um. wrong side here. we are not the oppressor as you positioned women, but the oppressed. the correct analogy would be... do you think the anger of the protesters in fergusen over the killing of a black young man, ANOTHER killing of a young black man, was worth getting angry about? do you think it was effective?

ya. i do.