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Monk06

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118. Valenti is not just indulging in an exercise of gentle persuasion that we should be more reflective

Wed May 20, 2015, 02:17 AM

May 2015

about the subtle bias in our literary choices. She makes no bones about what she thinks of the nature of 'Man'

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/27/why-are-some-men-so-angry

Note the set up is a quote from Margret Atwood, "Men are afraid of being embarrassed. Women are afraid of being killed."

As you say I seem to be angry, well more miffed actually. According to Atwood and Valenti my anger makes me a potential murderer because I'm a man.

What makes me angry, sorry miffed, is women who make these sorts of specious generalizations and then pretend to be puzzled when men get angry at the insult. But never mind, I'm a man and the only way I can deal with embarrassment is beat the crap out of someone. Usually a woman.

This may seem off topic but it is part of an ongoing theme that men are weak, biased and violent because it's in their nature but they can rise above this manifest destiny if they change their reading habits and read more women's books.

How does supporting the careers of comfortably well off women writers change any of the fundamental problems in society? The most important problem with society is not the fate of professional women's careers. It's the the fact the the world is controlled by a few hundred anonymous billionaires.

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You might not think you're sexist – until you take a look at your bookshelf [View all] Liberal_in_LA May 2015 OP

This has been true since I was in HS... haikugal May 2015 #1

Same applies to racism and heterosexism (and a few other -isms). Behind the Aegis May 2015 #2

the first LGBT book I read was a novel called The Well of Loneliness cali May 2015 #4

I named one of my dogs after the horse in that book. cwydro May 2015 #8

+1 gollygee May 2015 #10

+1000. My loved ones often don't get why we can't see most films closeupready May 2015 #31

I personally dislike the idea of "positive" vs "negative" portrayals tishaLA May 2015 #69

When I said "negative" I was thinking more pedophile, pervert, stalker... Behind the Aegis May 2015 #75

Reading too much into his behavior simply on the twitter thing JonLP24 May 2015 #3

Who and what is important to me or anyone else Sobax May 2015 #5

Of course and that is not the point. morningfog May 2015 #16

Then what is the point? Sobax May 2015 #21

You don't speak for most men. morningfog May 2015 #22

But you do speak for them? Sobax May 2015 #23

Where did I say that? What the fuck? morningfog May 2015 #29

I don't see why you need to judge other people upaloopa May 2015 #61

I never judged anyone for what they want to read. morningfog May 2015 #63

What if we read for pleasure.. MicaelS May 2015 #111

Good lord. No one is forcing you to do anything. morningfog May 2015 #112

Who said they didn't have a right? laundry_queen May 2015 #17

I already know that I pick books because they interest me Sobax May 2015 #20

The whole point is that, by not paying any attention to it, gollygee May 2015 #24

In what way am I limiting myself? Sobax May 2015 #26

The article wasn't written specifically to you gollygee May 2015 #27

If you don't read only books by men, then why are you objecting to the OP? n/t kcr May 2015 #49

Well I haven't sat down and worked out exactly what the male-female ratio is Sobax May 2015 #52

Well, yes. That's the point. kcr May 2015 #53

Like most men, it's just not something I consider Sobax May 2015 #55

Okay. But the point of the OP is it is something to consider. kcr May 2015 #67

I don't agree that they are shut out, to be honest Sobax May 2015 #68

But the point of the OP isn't that there are no widely respected female authors kcr May 2015 #71

I don't think it's preventing talented female authors becoming successful Sobax May 2015 #72

But if it isn't something you consider, is it possible you're wrong? kcr May 2015 #73

I accept that our tastes are influenced by our environment Sobax May 2015 #74

A perfect example of what the author was talking about. kcr May 2015 #100

Like most men? When did you do a poll of all men in America? Is it just men in America? NoJusticeNoPeace May 2015 #78

Men in the Western world Sobax May 2015 #80

So you are saying you know that most men in the western world are not at all misogynist? NoJusticeNoPeace May 2015 #83

We're making a bit of a leap here Sobax May 2015 #85

I think I have made my point. But my bet is you wont see it. NoJusticeNoPeace May 2015 #86

Well if I was to say no, I don't think most Western men are misogynist Sobax May 2015 #87

You just suggested that making a conscience decision to only read books written by men NoJusticeNoPeace May 2015 #88

I didn't say there was anything conscious about my own preference Sobax May 2015 #89

Did I say you hate women? NoJusticeNoPeace May 2015 #91

How is it misogynist exactly? Sobax May 2015 #93

Oh lawd laundry_queen May 2015 #102

You wrote: "All men born in an extremely misogynist society" jonno99 May 2015 #103

Wait a minute. Are some men hatched out of eggs? n/t kcr May 2015 #109

What happens if an intelligent person re-examines how his or her views are shaped... Orrex May 2015 #153

why is it an either/or Skittles May 2015 #165

It isn't an either/or, which is my point Orrex May 2015 #176

you just completely negated your point Skittles May 2015 #181

Not at all. Orrex May 2015 #194

it is AMAZING how many people miss this point Skittles May 2015 #164

It's pretty clearly a passive/aggressive insult, though Orrex May 2015 #177

um, no, that's not what it is, not at all Skittles May 2015 #179

I think perhaps I was unclear. Orrex May 2015 #193

it's The Guardian: "33 new ways to flagellate yourself about how you never suspected MisterP May 2015 #37

You don't think it's a real issue that people often don't think about how their tastes are shaped? kcr May 2015 #50

Apparently Jessica Valenti in particular already has a reputation for this kind of thing Sobax May 2015 #57

oh, it IS Valenti, I should've checked MisterP May 2015 #64

Julie Burchill was another one if I recall Sobax May 2015 #70

Burchill was already perfectly ghastly when she started as a music reviewer hifiguy May 2015 #173

you again Skittles May 2015 #106

If you look at your bookshelf and there's no books, lovemydog May 2015 #6

Unless you have a Kindle or a Nook! kentauros May 2015 #15

True dat, my friend. lovemydog May 2015 #120

I have a backlog of books to read, kentauros May 2015 #130

Ah, you're like me. You like to read one serious book lovemydog May 2015 #133

Actually, she covers "future" lives in "Beyond Past Lives" kentauros May 2015 #136

LOL, nice. lovemydog May 2015 #137

I don't know the different models any more. kentauros May 2015 #138

Cool. Interesting point about the sexuality of authors. lovemydog May 2015 #139

Honestly, I'm a slow reader. kentauros May 2015 #140

Good one! Thanks for the smile! jonno99 May 2015 #114

Glad you smiled, lovemydog May 2015 #119

Book burning party!!!!!! 1939 May 2015 #7

Oh yeah, that's totally what it says gollygee May 2015 #11

That's what you got out of this? laundry_queen May 2015 #18

I imagine it can often be difficult to accurately infer a simple point. LanternWaste May 2015 #38

If you're so desperately afraid of having to prove you're not a bigot- bettyellen May 2015 #44

oh stop it! Liberal_in_LA May 2015 #98

This person is reaching... Oktober May 2015 #9

I don't think they're offended. Just suggesting people could be more aware. cyberswede May 2015 #28

How about someone being aware of someone else reading their twitter feed over their shoulder on the Monk06 May 2015 #113

You seem upset. cyberswede May 2015 #115

I am upset. I'm tired of being called an endemic rapist because I was born a male. Rape Culture Monk06 May 2015 #116

The article merely suggests we might want to look at what shapes our world view cyberswede May 2015 #117

Valenti is not just indulging in an exercise of gentle persuasion that we should be more reflective Monk06 May 2015 #118

+1000 jonno99 May 2015 #128

Lol at comfortably well off women writers. Many women could not be published with a woman's name.... bettyellen May 2015 #190

I'm just as entitled to wallow in my resentments as Emma Sulkowitz and I'm not trying to get anyone Monk06 May 2015 #195

Wallow away, forgetting actual history and supplying pointless lists in it's stead. bettyellen May 2015 #196

I have no problem with feminists as long as they are intellectually honest about the progress Monk06 May 2015 #197

Agreed. I've begun puting most of them here on ignore. closeupready May 2015 #129

This might be more societal than individual gollygee May 2015 #12

Anyone who has all the Harry Potter books gets lots of brownie points in this regard. Nye Bevan May 2015 #13

*raises hand* frylock May 2015 #35

Fantastic, and The Silkworm too. Nye Bevan May 2015 #36

I just learned a couple of weeks ago about The Silkworm.. frylock May 2015 #39

I even enjoyed The Casual Vacancy Retrograde May 2015 #90

I absolutely loved the Potter books. hifiguy May 2015 #142

A her publisher's request mercuryblues May 2015 #198

Now I'll have to ask On-Semi, Int'l Rectifier etc. who wrote their Catalogs (male or female) One_Life_To_Give May 2015 #14

That is about as nerdy a post as I can imagine. hifiguy May 2015 #143

Maybe When I RobinA May 2015 #19

... 99Forever May 2015 #25

I attempted to start a discussion about sexism in sports, closeupready May 2015 #30

Oh- must have been your "tone"- right? bettyellen May 2015 #42

I want not to hijack this thread, but here's the post: closeupready May 2015 #51

Ah, I saw that you ignored all the reasonable replies and went on to insist it was sexism, lol. bettyellen May 2015 #105

Oh my God, it applies to all minorities as well. Example, it's obvious from the posts about LGBT Bluenorthwest May 2015 #32

+1000000000000000000000 NoJusticeNoPeace May 2015 #81

I read books based on topics, not authors FLPanhandle May 2015 #33

History books can be different depending on who writes them gollygee May 2015 #34

As history is not static, but repeatedly and consistently interpreted. LanternWaste May 2015 #40

Historians have consistantly downplayed the accomplishments of women and POC bettyellen May 2015 #41

This is a ridiculously good point gollygee May 2015 #43

All true FLPanhandle May 2015 #45

It's stuck me as funny how people even here assume that non-fiction= accurate portrayal of history.. bettyellen May 2015 #46

Which is why everyone should read Howard Zinn. hifiguy May 2015 #144

Great book! But I am puzzled by so many being offended by asking to just pause and reflect about bettyellen May 2015 #145

As I posted downthread, I just follow my interests. hifiguy May 2015 #147

Well it sounds like you're pretty well rounded but I don't doubt that there are some bettyellen May 2015 #148

A female friend - the wife of a now-late friend of mine, hifiguy May 2015 #149

Davies sounds like something I would like- thank you! And here is where bettyellen May 2015 #169

He has been called Canada's greatest "man of letters" hifiguy May 2015 #171

I was thinking the Cornish trilogy- which one starts off better? bettyellen May 2015 #172

Cornish is lighter in tone, IIRC hifiguy May 2015 #174

Will definitely check him out- thank you greatly! bettyellen May 2015 #175

Wow- can you imagine what kind of troglodyte would get so offended by my post bettyellen May 2015 #182

How that post of yours could inspire a troll is quite beyond me. hifiguy May 2015 #184

I wish I knew what the troll said, lol. for some reason people really open up to me and I've bettyellen May 2015 #185

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2015 #180

The important thing is, people are reading The2ndWheel May 2015 #47

My book and CD collection are mainly female Beaverhausen May 2015 #48

Was that done on purpose? FLPanhandle May 2015 #56

Geez, are we to the point we criticize other upaloopa May 2015 #54

My Bookshelf Is Loaded With. . . ProfessorGAC May 2015 #58

as a purely intellectual exercise you might note how many books are written by women- KittyWampus May 2015 #122

I Get Your Point, But I'll Pass ProfessorGAC May 2015 #123

Well, just so you know I wasn't labeling you sexist. More that society is and can influence KittyWampus May 2015 #125

Fair Enough ProfessorGAC May 2015 #135

It's worth considering el_bryanto May 2015 #59

Sexism and racism don't have to be strong words gollygee May 2015 #77

I understand where you are coming from el_bryanto May 2015 #92

A personal example... haikugal May 2015 #94

The first sentence is much better. Behind the Aegis May 2015 #82

Very good point. Thanks for that. Passive bias. I'd prefer subconscious bias but that's cause KittyWampus May 2015 #126

I read books because they're well writtin, informative, amusing, dramatic, etc. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2015 #60

This is very true, but only if your collections are extremely lopsidedly male. Quantess May 2015 #62

Sorry, but that's entirely too facile tishaLA May 2015 #65

"passive recipient"? that, plus "massive desperation" is Valenti in a nutshell MisterP May 2015 #76

Is it sexist if I have "Brother John" and "Father Huntington"? hfojvt May 2015 #66

I would say the bookshelf may reflect society's perisistent biases moreso geek tragedy May 2015 #79

What are people supposed to do if they find their bookshelves dominated by one gender? LittleBlue May 2015 #84

Why would they have to be random? kcr May 2015 #101

it's strange how the point can be so completely missed on a progressive board Skittles May 2015 #108

The point isn't missed LittleBlue May 2015 #152

you missed it again Skittles May 2015 #158

Interesting LittleBlue May 2015 #162

triple!!! Skittles May 2015 #163

For what it's worth LittleBlue May 2015 #166

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Skittles May 2015 #167

I like good books LittleBlue May 2015 #151

Who cares? romanic May 2015 #95

I am male. Read mostly fiction crime thrillers bigwillq May 2015 #96

I read where my interests lead me. hifiguy May 2015 #97

I haven't gone through my LWolf May 2015 #99

When it comes to music, I've got the bases covered.... Violet_Crumble May 2015 #127

But, do you have the basses covered, too? kentauros May 2015 #132

So if my friend reccomends a book, I have to find out the sex of the author first? Travis_0004 May 2015 #104

The comments section is so Brit. GoneOffShore May 2015 #107

She's been spending too much time reading Griselda Pollock. Yes the world would be a better place Monk06 May 2015 #110

Don't put the author's name or picture on books or articles anymore The2ndWheel May 2015 #121

IMO, article errs in saying "YOU" are sexist if main literary intake is male. It may very well be KittyWampus May 2015 #124

I have a good friend who claims the only book he ever read was Bruce Jenner's biography (1977) Buzz Clik May 2015 #131

LoL! hifiguy May 2015 #141

I'm a white male. Everything I do is wrong. I get it. Blue_Adept May 2015 #134

If you say so- has nothing to do with the OP but.... bettyellen May 2015 #146

It's just the blanket thing from the header/subject Blue_Adept May 2015 #150

Not sure where you see the entitled thing bettyellen May 2015 #159

no one said that Liberal_in_LA May 2015 #188

Would not the same logic hold true in voting patterns? If you vote for men, you must be sexist? lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #154

I actually think this question deserves a response. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #192

Maybe, but there is more than subconscious sexism going on Android3.14 May 2015 #155

And this looks interesting. can you tell the gender of an author from their writing Android3.14 May 2015 #156

Apparently men submit writing at a rate two times women Android3.14 May 2015 #157

So - publishers advised women to use their first initial only why exactly? bettyellen May 2015 #160

No argument there Android3.14 May 2015 #161

I think it's more like few to none women authors, rather than an equal number... bettyellen May 2015 #170

I try not Snow Leopard May 2015 #168

Read the article, read the comments there, read the comments here. GoneOffShore May 2015 #178

Thank you, Liberal_in_LA! Dont call me Shirley May 2015 #183

' Liberal_in_LA May 2015 #187

... Dont call me Shirley May 2015 #189

Not true. I just picked up a copy of Moby Vagina over the weekend. NightWatcher May 2015 #186

You might not think you're a sexist - but I'm going invent a reason to accuse you of being one! DesMoinesDem May 2015 #191