What can we DU now to help TTW and Yoshi ?

[Yo_Mama]

73. Even assuming that you could, doesn't that just put her back where she was in February?

And she was not in a good place in February, or March, or April, etc. Too stressed out to eat or sleep or work, according to her own statements.

Until you can provide help to address the problems that caused the homelessness, I don't think you can actually help her. My personal guess is that she needs a residential placement with mental health services to be in a safe situation for herself.

As for Yoshi - well, this is obviously stressful, and now the poor dog is ill. I don't think this is a vicious dog - it sounded like the behavior was pure pack dominance, but that is a bloody affair in nature. If this dog is out on the streets trying to create a defended domain, they are both in trouble. You have to assume that Yoshi loves TTW, and that her stressed state is causing Yoshi to try to defend her. A lot of dogs will do fine with a stable owner but become "vicious" when the owner is unstable. It's not a change in the dog, but in the circumstances. A dog like this does what it does, pretty much. What it is born and bred to do.

If you are going to try to do this, you need to plan on at least six months. TTW is not able to work, and will need money to feed Yoshi, pay for vet bills, and perhaps for mental health services. I believe she is getting food stamps and is on Medicaid, but I am not sure what type of mental health services she is getting or able to accept. She will definitely need someone to visit her at least three times a week and try to help her get more functional and less stressed.

But I believe it would be highly dangerous to try to do this. I will try to explain why.

I have taken "vicious" dogs and saved them. I don't think there are many vicious dogs, but most dogs will become "vicious" under the right circumstances. Under no circumstances would I ever let a dog displaying this behavior be around any other humans or dogs without being under complete physical control until I had gotten the dog to a safe place. I am very concerned indeed about the possible results.

Anyway, having done this, I am pretty realistic about what it takes, and I do not feel that Yoshi is going to be reliable under the circumstances. I am very worried about what is going to happen, and it is not because of Yoshi, but because of TTW's state. TTW is so stressed out that the dog is constantly getting bad signals, and after this recent episode, almost anything could happen.

If you want to save the dog, you need a permanent home without too much proximity to other animals/people, and constant care, supervision and training for six months to a year. It takes that long to establish basic trust and get the dog into success and competence mode. In her current state, TTW is not able to be that person. If she were not working, she might be able to handle it, but I think not. But if she is not working, what happens at the end of six months or a year? TTW is utterly unable to handle basic living at this point. She is in a terrific state of stress, and attempting to change anything or operate under pressure seems to cause her to utterly break down.

If you want to save TTW, I think the best thing would be semi-supervised living with mental health services. I do not see how these two sets of needs - dog and human - mesh.

I love dogs. I accept, because I must, that their lives are not as important as human lives. At this point I would opt to save TTW, if that were possible and if she would accept help.

I have tried so hard to be tactful over these months about the situation, but at this point I believe you are proposing something that is literally dangerous to other human beings out of pure compassion. No one is bad in this situation - not TTW, Yoshi, or those who have tried to help. But without developing some realism about this situation, I fear that very bad results might ensue.

Just to be absolutely clear, because I know a lot of people have no understanding of dogs - if you put this dog now without CONSTANT supervision in a situation with any other animals, Yoshi will kill any dog who won't take second place, and will probably kill any random animals wandering around. Further, a human will have to fight for months to gain real control over the dog, because first the dog will have to believe in the human. These aren't dumb animals.

If you put this dog into a new home with TTW in which TTW and the dog are exposed to other people, and TTW responds with the type of reaction toward other humans which she herself has described several times, there is a very real chance Yoshi will attack the other person. Yoshi won't do it because Yoshi is vicious, but after two or three weeks, Yoshi will decide this is the new territory to be defended, and that it is absolutely imperative to run off anyone who looks dangerous or who appears to be causing a bad reaction in TTW. Because after all, what just happened was horrific, and it must not be repeated.

Okay, so if someone is coming to visit TTW and trying to help her get her life in functional order, that will require bridging from one stressful situation to the next. Basically you take each thing TTW can't face and help her work through it in a controlled fashion, and eventually the stress fades on that activity, and you go to the next. Now you've got a dog watching this, and sensing TTW's reaction. You show up, TTW gets stressed. A week, two weeks, and Yoshi isn't going to let you in the door, and even if TTW orders Yoshi down and lets you in, when her stress builds up, Yoshi's going to go for that dangerous intruder. Not because Yoshi is vicious, but because Yoshi has had months and months of worry and concern, and then disaster, and then he's just getting TTW in better situation, and you are the enemy attempting to walk in on TTW and invade her new safe territory, and YOU ARE THE ENEMY AND YOU ARE GOING DOWN.

That's the truth. The problem here is not that you have a vicious dog. You have an irrational human under great stress and a RATIONAL dog who does not understand the source of the stress, but observes associations carefully. That's a recipe for DISASTER.

So if you really care about TTW, don't try this. I am very sorry, I don't know what to do. If TTW would surrender the dog and we could get her into some safe living situation with assistance, we could try to help her. But I would never, ever contribute to what you are trying to do, because I believe it is tantamount to driving very fast while drunk. You don't know just when or exactly how the crash will happen, but you do know it's NOT GOING TO END WELL.