Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Ms. Toad

(34,085 posts)
164. As a lesbian, you are NO ally of mine
Thu May 4, 2017, 03:20 PM
May 2017

Last edited Thu May 4, 2017, 05:21 PM - Edit history (1)

if you use being gay as an insult. Period.

Allies cannot claim permission to use words that have been used as weapons against those they claim to be allies to. That is permission that is given only on an individual basis and, as an ally, is limited to using those words in the exclusive company of the individual who granted that permission.

You are not a strong supporter of the gay community when you ignore the voices of the gay community when we tell you it is unacceptable to use being gay as an insult. Period.

As for the Democratic party - please. It is just barely and recently on the right side of this issue. Remember the 2012 presidential election, when all the candidates opposed same gender marriage? Remember DOMA? Remember DADT? Remember Rick Warren?The Democratic party has a long history of standing in our way and on our toes. Maybe, in a decade or so, it will have a long enough track record to have earned a bare minimum of trust.

Unprecedented times does not give you the right to insult me by declaring that Trump and Putin are vile becasuse - like me - they are gay.

Dear Allies: Use WHATEVER WORKS. [View all] LaydeeBug May 2017 OP
The old ends justifies the means argument. aikoaiko May 2017 #1
You can't claim the moral high ground while we're on a sinking ship... LaydeeBug May 2017 #2
The only people I care about potentially offending ARE my allies. moriah May 2017 #6
The point is, since we're *allies* and all, not to be offended... LaydeeBug May 2017 #8
I just can't tell someone else not to be offended, ya know? moriah May 2017 #15
I get it, but the same coin says, they shouldn't tell us either. nt LaydeeBug May 2017 #48
Actually, as allies, I thought our job was to listen and act accordingly. moriah May 2017 #52
You make a lot of assumptions and presumptions on that pitard. LaydeeBug May 2017 #98
Thank you for getting it. n/t Ms. Toad May 2017 #165
You are saying that dehumanizing gay people -- weaponizing them -- is okay if it works. pnwmom May 2017 #81
*nope* LaydeeBug May 2017 #83
That's exactly what you said. It's okay if it works as an insult to DT/Putin, pnwmom May 2017 #86
No. it isn't. LaydeeBug May 2017 #88
The capitalist ship is going down and you think changing the captain KingCharlemagne May 2017 #44
Some time they do MFM008 May 2017 #130
pretty much. some people will dump morality at the slightest excuse; it tells you a lot about a per TheFrenchRazor May 2017 #191
There's plenty of strong, profane and vulgar language that doesn't demean ourselves. RedWedge May 2017 #3
...'that doesn't deman ourselves'? Is this the royal 'we'? LaydeeBug May 2017 #5
No. RedWedge May 2017 #7
Awesome. It's probably best to realize that you aren't the arbiter of 'demeaning', then LaydeeBug May 2017 #9
Has anyone told you that they are? RedWedge May 2017 #11
Yes. The one who told me to use 'vulgar languange not demaning to ourselves'. nt LaydeeBug May 2017 #13
Am I the only one? RedWedge May 2017 #14
Yes. LaydeeBug May 2017 #18
Except for the others on this thread? RedWedge May 2017 #50
No, you are not the only one. This is infuriating, the more it goes on. nt pnwmom May 2017 #56
I can't figure out why the OP is so bent on being able to use certain terms, even when RedWedge May 2017 #57
I do not know why she is willing to sacrifice a group of allies. It's appalling. n/t pnwmom May 2017 #65
Agreed. RedWedge May 2017 #67
Sad, but I don't find it surprising. cwydro May 2017 #74
Yeah.. whathehell May 2017 #121
But they are being USED in an effort to demean (presumably) straight people. pnwmom May 2017 #28
*nope*...stop making presumptions when they're making ATTACKS. LaydeeBug May 2017 #33
"I implore my gays." This sounds like DT talking about "my blacks." pnwmom May 2017 #106
"My gays"??? cwydro May 2017 #158
Apparently... greytdemocrat May 2017 #211
Yikes. cwydro May 2017 #212
How is not using certain insults hamstringing anyone? Caliman73 May 2017 #160
Gaslighting seems to be this poster's go-to phrase. cwydro May 2017 #167
Yes I've seen it used a few times now. Caliman73 May 2017 #173
I once had a young relative, pnwmom May 2017 #177
True Caliman73 May 2017 #184
Yeah.. whathehell May 2017 #123
Likewise you aren't the arbiter of how other people feel mythology May 2017 #21
The only irony is that I never tried to arbitrate how *anyone* feels LaydeeBug May 2017 #22
Actually, it seems to me that's exactly what you're doing. kcr May 2017 #49
It can SEEM any way you want, but the TRUTH is something else. No weapons removed from LaydeeBug May 2017 #51
If there were no other weapons available, ok. kcr May 2017 #54
There is no link in your first link. LaydeeBug May 2017 #111
It isn't morally justified to weaponize other people against their will pnwmom May 2017 #66
You don't get to claim the moral high ground while you're standing in quick sand LaydeeBug May 2017 #78
You are insisting on your right to USE a specific group of vulnerable allies in the fight. pnwmom May 2017 #89
This has been explained to you SEVERAL times. see post #33. nt LaydeeBug May 2017 #92
And I've explained to you several times that homophobic hate speech isn't okay pnwmom May 2017 #99
and I've explained to you it isn't homophobic. Period. LaydeeBug May 2017 #101
It's exactly the same thing RWers do in the service of their cause. pnwmom May 2017 #112
So I'm waiting for you to call them N*****s. Ms. Toad May 2017 #172
so I'm waiting for you to get off of my dick. LaydeeBug May 2017 #206
If you hadn't been waving it around showing it off . . . Ms. Toad May 2017 #207
Of course, this subthread PROVES my fucking point LaydeeBug May 2017 #208
I am not claiming to be an ally. I am a lesbian. Ms. Toad May 2017 #210
Are you the arbiter of what is or isn't offensive to the gay community? pnwmom May 2017 #26
Are *YOU*? LaydeeBug May 2017 #34
No, I am. AngryAmish May 2017 #41
More so than you are. It doesn't matter if a random gay person here or there agrees with you. pnwmom May 2017 #59
They are being used in order to demean Putin and Trump -- in their minds. pnwmom May 2017 #29
see post #33 and never try to hamstring me again. LaydeeBug May 2017 #35
Or what? You'll insult gay people some more? nt pnwmom May 2017 #55
LOL RedWedge May 2017 #68
What's sad is that it IS an insult. But there's our society. moriah May 2017 #53
Um, no...It means "women" I'm one and, yeah, sorry, I agree with her. whathehell May 2017 #120
Come on, sista, tell me how you really feel! angstlessk May 2017 #4
I cocksucking, motherfucking agree!! Sculpin Beauregard May 2017 #10
A-motherFUCKING-men to that. We can't *have* those small squabbles. We need to fight THEM LaydeeBug May 2017 #12
Indeed. The soul of democracy is at stake. Sculpin Beauregard May 2017 #16
We will lose our own souls if we sacrifice other vulnerable people to this fight. pnwmom May 2017 #71
Thank you. LaydeeBug May 2017 #118
What does that even mean? Caliman73 May 2017 #162
I don't think it was homophobic ProudLib72 May 2017 #17
perzactly. LaydeeBug May 2017 #19
Using gay sexual acts to insult Putin and DT contributes to our cultures's homophobia, pnwmom May 2017 #30
"that tRump is in an inferior position" fishwax May 2017 #138
Nah ProudLib72 May 2017 #140
Yeah, I know ... that's just another part of the problem fishwax May 2017 #143
That's exactly the problem- it's sexist and homophobic. I don't want to see "bitch" thrown around bettyellen May 2017 #169
Well, that is fucked up too. demmiblue May 2017 #174
Never said it wasn't fucked up reasoning ProudLib72 May 2017 #190
I get it, I'm not an idiot Saviolo May 2017 #20
Thank you for your well reasoned post mythology May 2017 #23
Thank you. cwydro May 2017 #45
Apparently, homophobia is OK...sometimes. Behind the Aegis May 2017 #24
*nope*. It is NOT homophobia to say Trump's mouth is Putin's cock holster. LaydeeBug May 2017 #36
I'm wondering if you can walk us through your reasoning, instead of just saying "nope, that's RedWedge May 2017 #58
What she doesn't understand is her INTENT is irrelevant.. She is USING gay slurs, pnwmom May 2017 #72
*nope* LaydeeBug May 2017 #75
No, I'm insisting that you not USE gay people. Unless you have a very limited imagination pnwmom May 2017 #77
Nice try. No dice. I insist that you not censor me at ALL. LaydeeBug May 2017 #80
Are you insisting on your right to use racial hate speech against him, too? pnwmom May 2017 #137
Not female slurs? whathehell May 2017 #136
I don't think men are entitled to use female slurs. Women are free to, if that's what they want. pnwmom May 2017 #150
I disagrees with your first declaration..I guess they are "free" whathehell May 2017 #156
I'm not trying to downplay the gay bashing ProudLib72 May 2017 #27
You are being hypocritical. If right-wingers were using the exact same language to attack pnwmom May 2017 #32
*nope*. Not being hypocritical at all...being real. LaydeeBug May 2017 #40
Then don't call yourself an ally. And stop referring to "my gays." pnwmom May 2017 #193
Then DON'T THINK YOU ARE THE ARBITER OF THIS. Get off of my dick LaydeeBug May 2017 #194
When you stop being offensive, people will "get off your dick." pnwmom May 2017 #200
I've been thinking about that situation ProudLib72 May 2017 #202
Thanks for reconsidering this, ProudLib72. pnwmom May 2017 #203
Holy fucking WOW full of Oh HELL NO.... LaydeeBug May 2017 #42
You are like every "ally" I had in high school Saviolo May 2017 #43
This is USING gay people, not standing up for them. Compare DT and Putin pnwmom May 2017 #63
Thank you for your very strong post. I wish I could write about this as well, pnwmom May 2017 #61
I'm trying to be nuanced Saviolo May 2017 #62
In my opinion it isn't possible to overdo it. Would it be okay to use racial slurs to insult them? pnwmom May 2017 #64
+1000 Sissyk May 2017 #127
No, I strongly disagree. Anytime you use a gay-related term as a SLUR, or an attack word, pnwmom May 2017 #25
*nope*. see post #33. LaydeeBug May 2017 #37
I'd love to know how many of the people dismissing the significance of this are gay themselves. n/t pnwmom May 2017 #31
I'd love to see the gay community fight *THEM* instead of complaining about *us* LaydeeBug May 2017 #38
You are dehumanizing gay people -- turning them into weapons -- with every use of gay slurs. pnwmom May 2017 #73
*Nope* Your broken record technique does not make it so. LaydeeBug May 2017 #79
You have provided dozens of examples of that technique. n/t pnwmom May 2017 #180
... here's some links about what being an ally IS. moriah May 2017 #122
Excellent post. nt RedWedge May 2017 #125
Perfect post. nt cwydro May 2017 #149
I'm gay, and I hate being gay used as an insult. cwydro May 2017 #46
I'm the daughter of a gay man, and i loathe it being used to insult. pnwmom May 2017 #60
ditto; this shouldn't require an explanation. nt TheFrenchRazor May 2017 #192
Hopefully we can shame Trump into doing something about it. Jno_Gilmor_ May 2017 #39
K&R Gothmog May 2017 #47
I have to say I'm really disappointed, Gothmog. pnwmom May 2017 #70
Why not go full asshole and use racial slurs as well? RedWedge May 2017 #69
Exactly. She can't understand why using hate talk isn't okay. And that she's not much of an ally. nt pnwmom May 2017 #76
And you must not be that much of an ally if you want to hamstring speech. nt LaydeeBug May 2017 #84
What do you lose if people ask you not to use a word that's often heard as a slur? RedWedge May 2017 #87
I am asking you not to become the enemy in your defense of us. But that's what you're doing. pnwmom May 2017 #90
post #33. Stop thinking you can *assign* my words to me. You can't. LaydeeBug May 2017 #95
"Stop thinking you can *assign* my words to me." RedWedge May 2017 #103
I'm not. Pick any words that aren't hate speech against a group of vulnerable allies. pnwmom May 2017 #114
Just from reading that one's posts, cwydro May 2017 #110
Truly. This is why I need people to stay off of my dick. LaydeeBug May 2017 #116
Why not try to use false equivalence and fight THEM, and ot *us*? LaydeeBug May 2017 #82
Seriously though, why not. I mean, WHATEVER WORKS. RedWedge May 2017 #85
YAWN LaydeeBug May 2017 #91
LMAO. "Get woke," she says. RedWedge May 2017 #94
post #33. LaydeeBug May 2017 #96
Bingo. nt cwydro May 2017 #124
It is not FALSE equivalence. Redwedge has made the perfect analogy. nt pnwmom May 2017 #93
It *is*. Post #33 LaydeeBug May 2017 #97
#33 is as wrong as the first time you directed me to it. nt pnwmom May 2017 #102
*nope*. LaydeeBug May 2017 #104
Oh wait, I've got it! To stay 'woke,' why not call the RUSSIANS racial slurs? RedWedge May 2017 #100
There you go again...wedge issues and all.... LaydeeBug May 2017 #105
You know Redwedge is right, no matter how often you say *nope.* pnwmom May 2017 #107
LOL. Ok. Oral sex is not homophobic. AT ALL. Please get off of my dick. LaydeeBug May 2017 #108
Making slurs to do with oral sex between two men IS homophobic pnwmom May 2017 #115
No, I'm laser-focused on the Russians here. If you can make them and their Republican supporters RedWedge May 2017 #109
Again with thinking it's yours to *assign*. Please, please, get off of my dick. nt LaydeeBug May 2017 #113
What do you mean by "assign"? Your own words are "Use WHATEVER WORKS." RedWedge May 2017 #117
Why won't you get off of my dick? LaydeeBug May 2017 #129
Why won't you use whatever arsenal you can to insult people? What's holding you back? RedWedge May 2017 #131
Why are you *STILL* all up on my dick? nt LaydeeBug May 2017 #152
Why won't you stand up for yourself and refuse to be hamstrung on ALL words, not just ones that RedWedge May 2017 #154
Because you are wrong. n/t demmiblue May 2017 #155
Um. The only one "on your dick," imo, cwydro May 2017 #159
and yet, here you are. LaydeeBug May 2017 #204
Preach it Laydeebug! KPN May 2017 #119
Thank *YOU* KPN. Your last sentence is *truth*, and these haters are gonna hate anyway. LaydeeBug May 2017 #126
No, thank you KPN May 2017 #128
. RedWedge May 2017 #139
Meh. I don't need that language in my arsenal. I'm not interesting in subjecting fishwax May 2017 #132
Thank you, fishwax. That's exactly what they're doing -- making gay people collateral damage. nt pnwmom May 2017 #133
Well stated. demmiblue May 2017 #135
This is one of the ugliest threads I have read in awhile. demmiblue May 2017 #134
It's pretty bad. and 25 recs so far. m-lekktor May 2017 #141
It's very disappointing. cwydro May 2017 #148
I'm getting disturbed by some of the DU rhetoric right now. nolabear May 2017 #142
It is really disturbing. demmiblue May 2017 #144
I'm pretty discouraged Saviolo May 2017 #147
I didn't realize your OP was first. That makes the other one even worse. pnwmom May 2017 #181
Yeah, Saviolo May 2017 #182
Yours was very respectful, clear, and well thought out. pnwmom May 2017 #185
I just read your post and rec'ed it. You are 100% spot on Inkfreak May 2017 #186
Add me to the list of those rejecting the argument/advice in this OP petronius May 2017 #145
Yeah, if this sort of language is "what works" then that's PART OF THE PROBLEM, not a means to the hughee99 May 2017 #146
Very well said. RedWedge May 2017 #151
Ditto. nt cwydro May 2017 #157
And while some people die on that hill to use gross language at Trump and Putin Saviolo May 2017 #153
One thing this thread has made abundantly clear cwydro May 2017 #161
I'm sad and exhausted, now. Saviolo May 2017 #163
As a lesbian, you are NO ally of mine Ms. Toad May 2017 #164
Yes indeed. cwydro May 2017 #166
On the bright side, it's encouraging to see a good share of DUers stand up and speak out hughee99 May 2017 #168
Absolutely right. cwydro May 2017 #171
I spent a lot of time here this morning and I'm glad if it helped support you pnwmom May 2017 #176
I kind of a have a sneaking suspicion about this op. cwydro May 2017 #179
+1,000000000000 pnwmom May 2017 #175
I love your righteous rants madokie May 2017 #170
"Trash thread. nt" countryjake May 2017 #178
Damn right. nt cwydro May 2017 #183
No. beam me up scottie May 2017 #187
Ok. LaydeeBug May 2017 #188
'Censorship'? beam me up scottie May 2017 #189
Yep. CENSORSHIP. LaydeeBug May 2017 #195
You are NOT an ally Ms. Toad May 2017 #197
And if I may, I'll link this again. moriah May 2017 #198
Perfect! Thank you! n/t Ms. Toad May 2017 #199
You are a very popular subject at Discussionist beaglelover May 2017 #196
So, when racism was exploited by Democrats in order to win it was for the common good? loyalsister May 2017 #201
*nope*. Conflate with someone else. I'm woke. LaydeeBug May 2017 #205
Bigotry is bigotry loyalsister May 2017 #209
No. It is NOT a reasonable analogy...it is divide and conquer. nt LaydeeBug May 2017 #213
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Dear Allies: Use WHATEVER...»Reply #164